[rutter]

That's very strange to me. If I disable tone control I get sort of a lean, hollow, bass-slanted sound that is very uninspired and mediocre at best. It's like everything drops off past the bass, even the treble. It sounds L-shaped to me rather than V-shaped. When I enable tone control with the boosted middle the sound becomes vibrant and I begin to perceive spatial differences. I question both its realism and whether it's a good idea long term with respect to distortion but it sounds a lot better and basically salvages these iems. So bizarre. In my experience Chord products might have a high frequency bias. I was already thinking for instance the Chord Mojo might be a "good" fit for these. But the iFi Nano BL doesn't do much of anything and I haven't heard the rest of the stuff. The crux for me is how comfortable I should be feeling with EQ, in this case heavy EQ. There is nothing slight about the weaknesses I'm hearing and I do not hear acceptable upper mids.

 

[Ra97oR]

That's very strange to me. If I disable tone control I get sort of a lean, hollow, bass-slanted sound that is very uninspired and mediocre at best. It's like everything drops off past the bass, even the treble. It sounds L-shaped to me rather than V-shaped. When I enable tone control with the boosted middle the sound becomes vibrant and I begin to perceive spatial differences. I question both its realism and whether it's a good idea long term with respect to distortion but it sounds a lot better and basically salvages these iems. So bizarre. In my experience Chord products might have a high frequency bias. I was already thinking for instance the Chord Mojo might be a "good" fit for these. But the iFi Nano BL doesn't do much of anything and I haven't heard the rest of the stuff. The crux for me is how comfortable I should be feeling with EQ, in this case heavy EQ. There is nothing slight about the weaknesses I'm hearing and I do not hear acceptable upper mids.

Have you tried using smaller tips and inserting the IEM much deeper?

 

[BananaOoyoo]

That's very strange to me. If I disable tone control I get sort of a lean, hollow, bass-slanted sound that is very uninspired and mediocre at best. It's like everything drops off past the bass, even the treble. It sounds L-shaped to me rather than V-shaped. When I enable tone control with the boosted middle the sound becomes vibrant and I begin to perceive spatial differences. I question both its realism and whether it's a good idea long term with respect to distortion but it sounds a lot better and basically salvages these iems. So bizarre. In my experience Chord products might have a high frequency bias. I was already thinking for instance the Chord Mojo might be a "good" fit for these. But the iFi Nano BL doesn't do much of anything and I haven't heard the rest of the stuff. The crux for me is how comfortable I should be feeling with EQ, in this case heavy EQ. There is nothing slight about the weaknesses I'm hearing and I do not hear acceptable upper mids.

I think the general recommendation for that is to try different tips.

For me, I’ve tried:
E-Pro Horn Shaped Tips (S/M/L)
Final E-type Tips (M)
Sony Tips (M)
Spiral Dot Tips (M)
Azla Sedna Tips (S)
Comply Sport Pro Tips
Spinfit CP240 Tips (S/M)
Acoustune AET07 Tips (S)
Acoustune AET08 Tips (M)
Spinfit CP100(?) Tips (S/M)
SymbioW MandarinEs Tips (S/M)
With the Z1R.

I can get a deep insertion, but I don’t love how it sits on my ear with any of these tips. Whether or not I’ll get the Z1R probably depends on if custom tips will help improve the comfort - I’m planning on getting a pair for my EX1000, so I’ll be able to test it out then.

 

[rutter]

I'm using the hybrid silicone M tip and I believe I get quite good insertion. The iems go deep and feel natural. I've tried the little push test to see if sound changes when pushing and they seem to be deeply and securely in there. When I take them off it feels best to twist them as the seal appears good. Initially I tried a few of the other sizes but it doesn't hurt to try again. I was also under the impression that if you're getting a poor fit/bad seal bass is what would be suffering most.

 

[jmills8]

I think the general recommendation for that is to try different tips.

For me, I’ve tried:
E-Pro Horn Shaped Tips (S/M/L)
Final E-type Tips (M)
Sony Tips (M)
Spiral Dot Tips (M)
Azla Sedna Tips (S)
Comply Sport Pro Tips
Spinfit CP240 Tips (S/M)
Acoustune AET07 Tips (S)
Acoustune AET08 Tips (M)
Spinfit CP100(?) Tips (S/M)
SymbioW MandarinEs Tips (S/M)
With the Z1R.

I can get a deep insertion, but I don’t love how it sits on my ear with any of these tips. Whether or not I’ll get the Z1R probably depends on if custom tips will help improve the comfort - I’m planning on getting a pair for my EX1000, so I’ll be able to test it out then.

If I have to try that many tips thern the issue is on the iem.

 

[BananaOoyoo]

If I have to try that many tips thern the issue is on the iem.

It's my ears - my left tragus is a bit weirdly shaped, which makes bulkier IEMs fit poorly, and both of my ear canals are angled upwards, which makes even the IEMs that do fit well sit weirdly on my ear.

Surprisingly, despite it being bulky, the Z1R is shaped in a way that it doesn't trigger any problems with the first issue. However, the flat part of the Z1R shell is at an angle (rather than straight up and down) because of this second issue. I'm hopeful that a custom eartip will help with that.

It's why I prefer customs, and why I generally avoided IEMs entirely until I got to Korea and was able to try them in person before buying.

 

[rutter]

I seem to be losing body going to a smaller tip. One thing I've been irresponsible/dumb with recently is not adjusting the volume upward after exiting tone control to compare. Recession is there even with female vocals. I think bass is indeed a very strong point of these iems. When the songs have it these can get it across satisfactorily from a demanding perspective. I don't know how most other iems in this price range fare with bass but it wouldn't surprise me if the Z1R is top tier. Better than the Solaris. If the Atlas relies on quantity rather than quality this should be better than the Atlas too. I'm starting to be impressed whereas I wasn't initially, it's far from just boom or quantity, it's actual bass. For an iem anyway this should be quite good.

it's just that in this particular case it seems to all be psychological counceling catered to one individual person

That's an interesting take on psychological counseling.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I'm using the hybrid silicone M tip and I believe I get quite good insertion. The iems go deep and feel natural. I've tried the little push test to see if sound changes when pushing and they seem to be deeply and securely in there. When I take them off it feels best to twist them as the seal appears good. Initially I tried a few of the other sizes but it doesn't hurt to try again. I was also under the impression that if you're getting a poor fit/bad seal bass is what would be suffering most.

I have my best luck with the Sony silicone too, though I started with the old style Sony Black Hybrids. As long as you get a deep insertion and are able to move the IEMs around inside your ear with-out the sound changing it means you have achieved airtight fit. In my review I talk about burn in. Burn in has a big effect on bass detail. But in the store I had a demo model with 200 hours and my personal direct out of box with zero hours. The 200 hour models were noticeably more efficient. But my biggest noticeable difference was the burned-in model had a smoother bass and cohesive tone through-out. At 100 hours my own pair became close to the store demo though continued to improve.

Burn in is nothing to argue or get emotional about, though if it works then it’s all good. Still I feel you will notice big changes after 100 hours and if you get a chance to use the Walkman 1A. The Walkman costs 2X the ZX300 price for a reason. Also it may allow you to go EQ free.

Good luck.

 

[damart81]

I have my best luck with the Sony silicone too, though I started with the old style Sony Black Hybrids. As long as you get a deep insertion and are able to move the IEMs around inside your ear with-out the sound changing it means you have achieved airtight fit. In my review I talk about burn in. Burn in has a big effect on bass detail. But in the store I had a demo model with 200 hours and my personal direct out of box with zero hours. The 200 hour models were noticeably more efficient. But my biggest noticeable difference was the burned-in model had a smoother bass and cohesive tone through-out. At 100 hours my own pair became close to the store demo though continued to improve.

Burn in is nothing to argue or get emotional about, though if it works then it’s all good. Still I feel you will notice big changes after 100 hours and if you get a chance to use the Walkman 1A. The Walkman costs 2X the ZX300 price for a reason. Also it may allow you to go EQ free.

Good luck.

Have you tried the Symbio peels? I tested side by side with the silicone tips and personally felt it more open, less muddy, and a very clean sound. Will try to compare again later with the hybrid and the silicones.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Have you tried the Symbio peels? I tested side by side with the silicone tips and personally felt it more open, less muddy, and a very clean sound. Will try to compare again later with the hybrid and the silicones.

Thanks for the recommendation, though those are hard to get here. I’m pretty happy with the hybrid clear included silicone, though I do always try to keep an open mind about tips, as you don’t always know what your missing. And.....as we all know.....fit it everything.

 

[Rockwell75]

I seem to be losing body going to a smaller tip. One thing I've been irresponsible/dumb with recently is not adjusting the volume upward after exiting tone control to compare. Recession is there even with female vocals. I think bass is indeed a very strong point of these iems. When the songs have it these can get it across satisfactorily from a demanding perspective. I don't know how most other iems in this price range fare with bass but it wouldn't surprise me if the Z1R is top tier. Better than the Solaris. If the Atlas relies on quantity rather than quality this should be better than the Atlas too. I'm starting to be impressed whereas I wasn't initially, it's far from just boom or quantity, it's actual bass. For an iem anyway this should be quite good.

The consensus is that the Z1R has better bass than the Solaris, however the Solaris does have considerably more bass than you've ever implied with your impressions so I still suspect that you were never able to get a good fit with them. In any case I'm happy that you're approaching something resembling contentment with these.

 

[AxelCloris]

Let's please keep the discussion focused on the Sony IER-Z1R. Thanks all.

We're asking again to please keep the discussion on-topic. Thanks everyone.

 

[Ocelitgol]

Have you tried the Symbio peels? I tested side by side with the silicone tips and personally felt it more open, less muddy, and a very clean sound. Will try to compare again later with the hybrid and the silicones.

Symbio hurt my ears after awhile. They're good otherwise (love the isolation)
The peel ones make my ears itch.... no luck with Symbios for me

 

[TSAVAlan]

At our Sony event last month, had some guys who brought in their spinfit and Final E series tips to play with the IER-Z1R demo. Tip rolling though is a deep another rabbit hole to go down.

Little side story. I did some training with UE to learn their 3d scanner tech. And just trying to learn the intricacies of different ear canals was fun to say the least. Female ear canals are shorter than males, older folks have a more of a distinct bend vs younger ears, some ears barely have any bends. So many factors can affect an ear canal and thus a seal with an IEM. I found for my ears, if I had a bell curve my ear canals was probably one of the most standard ear canal shapes and most iems just go in great and work well but I do get different changes with different tips.

Sony is aware ears are all different and unique. In the Japan, they have a room full of different ear shapes from around the world. Like the scene in Game of Thrones with the hall of faces, Sony has the room of ears. So Sony can test out all their headphones out to see if they have any particular problems with an ear or ear canal.

 

[rutter]

Still I feel you will notice big changes after 100 hours and if you get a chance to use the Walkman 1A. The Walkman costs 2X the ZX300 price for a reason. Also it may allow you to go EQ free.

Good luck.

Alright, let's see if koven, who has listened to both, is wrong about them sounding more or less the same through the balanced output.