[rutter]

Another possibility to account for what I'm hearing is that I might be dumb. Partly because I wanted to be a big boy I've stuck with the M hybrid silicone rubber tips. The MS ones of the same type didn't do much for me and I think I only tried the M of the tiple-comfort tips. As you can see in the picture the triple-comfort are chunkier looking.

Out of desperation I tried the MS triple-comforts. This sounds more correct.



Drums are remarkably defined and punchy, male vocals are present, the cymbals are there, and the sound is generally clear (which is notable given I'm still with just the Magni) and not mellow. I'm not sure the saxophone is as expressive as it should be though. Toto has balls now and Sandstorm sounds more alive in higher frequencies. Clearly I don't have the discernment to evaluate if this is tonally correct (vocals may still be lean) and to characterize the sound with great precision especially relative to other iems I haven't heard but this is substantial progress for me. Bass may still be too dominant but the signature makes more sense. I swapped back and forth between the hybrid M and triple-comfort MS again and the latter definitely has a significant positive effect primarily in boosting frequencies past bass (tried the hybrid MS too).

Let's go over the significance of tips. Does it make sense that I was getting an L-shaped sound signature with the M hybrid silicone rubber tips? Why didn't going down to MS of the same type of tips do much to correct this? What happened when I switched to MS of triple-comfort to better balance and improve the sound? How exactly are you supposed to know that you have the right tip and size? What is the range of negative effects that should tip you off to a mismatch, and is it exclusive to tips?

PS

Second take with different IER-Z1R from different store and different source. iPhone with dongle is **** according to some.

Source : SP1000m.

Vol90 on Z1R, vol85 on 10K.

Overall Z1R signature : boomy warm, upfront mid and treble distant back relative to mid and low.

Adele - Sorry
Z1R - Vocal sound “hard” and upfront. Doesn’t feel as unnatural or plasticky compared to previous demo. Bass quite boomy and ever presence. Not much detail/nuance in low end. High doesn’t feel like soaring high and a step behind. Overall clarity feel smoothed but not veiled. Stage not wide or tall.

10k - Vocal sound much more natural, the Adele voice that I know. More nuance/detail can be heard easily (probably boosted). Perception of stage is better in term of height, wide and depth. More emotional as it should be.

Daft Punk - Get Lucky
Z1R - Same overall warmth. Again bass doesn’t have that tactile-ness and feel boomy. Mid upfront but sound ok this time. Not enough air between each instrument/note. Overall more intimate ie closed in. Club feel when cranked up the volume.

10K - Bassline stay where it should be and each note distinct. Vocal sound more natural. Details more easily heard.

Dire Straits - Money for nothing
Z1R - Bass boomy and overall warmth. Vocal sound nasally/hard and upfront. Intimate stage but still can pin point instrument/vocal/position quite accurately.

10K - Stage size and dynamic improvement quite noticeable over Sony. Sub and mid bass well controlled and placed behind the vocal. Vocals and instruments are clear, well separated and positioned. Each take their own space. Show better dynamic range compared to Z1R.

Make no mistake, Z1R is definitely TOTL but not to my number 1 choice.

I found this to be an interesting critical comparison of the Z1R to the FW10000. I have to say, being able to go to a local store and compare is a major advantage people in East Asia have that many of us don't. Trying to decipher online impressions is the true hobby, and it isn't very enjoyable.

 

[Ocelitgol]

Another possibility to account for what I'm hearing is that I might be dumb. Partly because I wanted to be a big boy I've stuck with the M hybrid silicone rubber tips. The MS ones of the same type didn't do much for me and I think I only tried the M of the tiple-comfort tips. As you can see in the picture the triple-comfort are chunkier looking.

Out of desperation I tried the MS triple-comforts. This sounds more correct.



Drums are remarkably defined and punchy, male vocals are present, the cymbals are there, and the sound is generally clear (which is notable given I'm still with just the Magni) and not mellow. I'm not sure the saxophone is as expressive as it should be though. Toto has balls now and Sandstorm sounds more alive in higher frequencies. Clearly I don't have the discernment to evaluate if this is tonally correct (vocals may still be lean) and to characterize the sound with great precision especially relative to other iems I haven't heard but this is substantial progress for me. Bass may still be too dominant but the signature makes more sense. I swapped back and forth between the hybrid M and triple-comfort MS again and the latter definitely has a significant positive effect primarily in boosting frequencies past bass (tried the hybrid MS too).

Let's go over the significance of tips. Does it make sense that I was getting an L-shaped sound signature with the M hybrid silicone rubber tips? Why didn't going down to MS of the same type of tips do much to correct this? What happened when I switched to MS of triple-comfort to better balance and improve the sound? How exactly are you supposed to know that you have the right tip and size? What is the range of negative effects that should tip you off to a mismatch, and is it exclusive to tips?

PS



I found this to be an interesting critical comparison of the Z1R to the FW10000. I have to say, being able to go to a local store and compare is a major advantage people in East Asia have that many of us don't. Trying to decipher online impressions is the true hobby, and it isn't very enjoyable.

Were you able to achieve good seal with the triple comfort?
I also prefer the sound of TC vs hybrid but could never get the seal to stay while walking

 

[rutter]

As far as I can tell it's a good seal but I was also confident I was getting a good seal with the hybrid M. If anything I was wondering if perhaps the hybrid M was getting overstuffed. I haven't gone walking with these so I don't know if the triple comfort will stay; it does feel like something to watch out for as it might be taking perhaps too much space in my ear.

The FW10k thread picked up in activity and there are two more less detailed comparisons this time going in favor of the Z1R.

For those asking for a comparison, Z1R has more bass. FW10K's only measurement out there seems to imply a rather large bass boost, but in reality the FW10k is very much vented to a large extent. Isolation really isn't that great. Bass levels can even feel anemic at times. FW10K also has a huge uppermidrage spike. I compared them to the RHA CL2. Everyone knows how much uppermids the CL2 have.

In practice, CL2 sounds better than FW10K since FW10K is just harsh next to them. Lower mids on the JVC are thin, brittle and too recessed. Whereas CL2's lower mids don't sound anywhere that bad. Imagine a greater upper midrange presence than CL2 WITH plenty more lower treble. That's what the JVC sounds like.

I don't like the CL2 but CL2 has its strengths with certain types of music. The FW10K? Just sounds terrible no matter what I play with it. And no, this is not a seal or fit issue. I think they just sound flat out terrible.

Z1R has a stronger bass response (which to some borders on way too much bass; it's perfectly fine for me), better balanced midrange with the uppermids taking slight precedence, and a very much present but unobstrusive treble. Z1R extends better on both ends. I personally do feel the Z1R is several leagues ahead and is more versatile. You have to have very specific genre and sound preferences to enjoy the JVC.

I tested the Z1R and FW10K back in Singapore.



The easiest take away is, both serve different audience/genre. The Z1R is more neutral, balanced sounding one, which works with most genre out there. I'm surprised with the coherence on this, which is out of all hybrid I have ever tried (including Tia Fourte and other hybrid flagship), this is possibly the most coherence hybrid.

FW10K is brighter sounding, but surprisingly soft instead of harsh. This make it sounds so good with classical and instrumental tracks, violin still sounds sweet due to a bit of softness in it. I love what I heard on FW10K, female vocal still sounds good, but male vocal is possibly a bit too thin.

Personally, for my taste, the Z1R is my preferred sounds. I still have to compare with Solaris though (that is also a very coherent hybrid). But FW10K just sounds really good with classical, that I also tempted to own one.

Meanwhile there's a person in the Solaris thread who has heard a number of the standouts including the Z1R and claims that the Solaris is the best iem under $4000. Bewildering.

The one thing we can get a consensus on is that the Z1R has bass. The bass can be really good, by the way. I think cultured bass-heads interested in iems should try to give the Z1R a listen. I think it blows the Solaris out of the water.

 

[Snekismyfriend]

As far as I can tell it's a good seal but I was also confident I was getting a good seal with the hybrid M. If anything I was wondering if perhaps the hybrid M was getting overstuffed. I haven't gone walking with these so I don't know if the triple comfort will stay; it does feel like something to watch out for as it might be taking perhaps too much space in my ear.

The FW10k thread picked up in activity and there are two more less detailed comparisons this time going in favor of the Z1R.





Meanwhile there's a person in the Solaris thread who has heard a number of the standouts including the Z1R and claims that the Solaris is the best iem under $4000. Bewildering.

The one thing we can get a consensus on is that the Z1R has bass. The bass can be really good, by the way. I think cultured bass-heads interested in iems should try to give the Z1R a listen. I think it blows the Solaris out of the water.

Well, I'll say this. I've heard tons of totls. You name it I've heard it. 64a u18U, CFA Solaris, Sony z1r, qdc vx, rha cl2 , ve8, .....

And what I can say is non of them are good when it comes to vocals. Only the final Lab series and certain fitear models have good mids. Well that's my opinion.

 

[thatonenoob]

 

[rutter]

Well, I'll say this. I've heard tons of totls. You name it I've heard it. 64a u18U, CFA Solaris, Sony z1r, qdc vx, rha cl2 , ve8, .....

And what I can say is non of them are good when it comes to vocals. Only the final Lab series and certain fitear models have good mids. Well that's my opinion.

I didn't have vocals complaints with the Solaris.

 

[Rockwell75]

The one thing we can get a consensus on is that the Z1R has bass. The bass can be really good, by the way. I think cultured bass-heads interested in iems should try to give the Z1R a listen. I think it blows the Solaris out of the water.

The most consistent comments I've heard about the Z1R revolve around how good the bass is. Are you going to keep it? And if so, are you still interested in operation cable swap for science?

 

[rutter]

I have no idea if I'm going to keep it. I'm receiving the iBasso DX220 with amp8 on Wednesday. That thing needs to be burned in for another at least 100, ideally 150-200 hours. The problem is lack of alternatives. If the FW10k isn't all roses and unicorns I don't see a promising option to better the Solaris and Z1R. The Chinese QDC is out of my price range and the 64 Audio U12T doesn't seem like a superior option at $2000 no less. I'll send you the single-ended cable temporarily if I eventually settle on the Z1R.

By the way, does Spotify sound more or less like hi-res services like Tidal or should you really go for one of the hi-res sources of music?

 

[TSAVAlan]

Oh, I been itching to write this. I was asked by a good friend to compare the different streaming platforms and give my impressions. So tried it at my home rig.

I have an active Tidal subscription (loseless), I used a trial for Apple Music (256kbps), I used a free Spotify account (160 kbps), and finally I used a 24bit 96k vinyl rip... of Hotel California. I also looked at free Google Music and didn't find Hotel California. Had a Amazon Music subscription but cancelled it.

I thought this was going to be easy, I was wrong. First off, my vinyl rip was the 1976 version and I could only find the 2013 remaster which already sounded brighter than the vinyl rip.

But then trying to compare Tidal, Apple, and Spotify I noticed right off the bat that the Spotify version was quieter at the same volume. Whip out the db meter and play the same 10 second section on all three and find Tidal and Apple were consistent, free Spotify was 2-3 db quieter than the other two. Then trying to compare the vinyl rip, I found it was maybe 3-4 db quieter.

At work, we got some 16bit lossless flac, some 96k MQA, and some DSD of Hotel California but after comparing the same song so many times I was already numb and didn't want to keep listening.

Brief summary of findings, Tidal sounded the best, Apple music wasn't far behind, Spotify free was a noticeable dip in quality. At personal level, I am going to keep my Tidal sub, not going to continue using Apple music after the 3 month trial is up, and will use Spotify periodically as they have a larger library. Didn't try Qobuz in this test. It should come down to what you are willing to shell out per month and the selection available on these services.

I am subbed to Netflix, Amazon Prime, Youtube Premium, Tidal, HBO, PewDiePie, etc. So those suck my money every month/year.

 

[rutter]

I see in my iTunes library that some of my >10-year-old iTunes purchases are at a bit rate of 256 kbps. Is that the same as the streaming service? I thought there was more to it, like the file format and sample rate. I wouldn't mind getting Tidal but the limited selection is a big turn-off. How exactly does offline and download listening work with these services? On what devices can you listen to the offline/downloaded songs? Last but not least, tell me you're "subscribed" to PewDiePie on youtube and don't actually give him money. He has probably made enough for what he does. Content creators and influencers are strange contemporary terms.

By the way, will Spotify launch their own hi-res section?

 

[rutter]

Here's another Z1R impression by one of the posters above.

First Impressions: Sony IER-Z1R

Sony has had quite a decent run with iems. From the (newly acclaimed) budget MH755 to the recent Sony M9, they have received quite a fair bit of praise from the audio community. The IER Z1R is their new flagship with a weird configuration (Sony always does weird things...) of 2DD 1BA where the BA handles the midrange, 1 (5mm) DD handles the tweeter and the other (12mm) DD is a full range.

To my ears the Z1R is treble boosted and subbass boosted (V/U-shape). Z1R's bass has impressive response. I find that Z1R's bass has more of a focus on the subbass rather than midbass. Midbass is always tight and has very good speed. I do not hear any discernible bloat or bloom - rather the bass remains well controlled with great control on decay speeds. Thats not to say it's midbass is neutral however - its still slightly boosted compared to a neutral DD bass response like the EX800ST.

Z1R's mids are thin sounding. I find that tone actually skews slightly towards the upper frequencies. Due to the bass having not as much midbass boost, the thin mids work better with the tight and controlled bass. A lot of Hybrids out there have bloat in the bass and with thin mids, incoherency due to perceived contrast in thickness/volume is audible. Electric guitars have good bite and crunch, though they lack body when compared to EX1000 or my near field speakers.

Treble is a little uneven and quite splashy. There's a good response to when sticks contact cymbals and there's a lot of shine and shimmer, but I can't help but feel the treble is too splashy. On some tracks the cymbals can dominate the mix, but the level of separation is great so poorly mastered songs like Paramore's Misery Business don't sound congested. I think splashiness can be a hit/miss thing with people. I personally do not like a splashy cymbal especially when the treble note is a little larger than the vocals itself at times.

Technicalities wise I think this is where it shines. Soundstage is wide (but depth can be improved, standard iem problem). Level of layering and separation is impressive, perhaps due to the tight midbass tuning acting as a great contrast against its splashy highs. Imaging is precise, especially since the attack is quite sharp. Overall the Z1R's tuning is typical "hifi" but the thin mids and splashy highs can deter some away.

Apparently this person listens to a lot of iems... including five different units of the FW10k and three of the CL2... so anyway, it may be interesting to check his or her impressions of different iems if you're curious.

That is kind of how I hear it. I think the overall results is just too far from sounding like actual music to work for me. I mean, the staging and bass are super impressive, but voices don't sound like that. It is not just a matter of taste, they just don't.

I'm inclined to agree on the so-called staging too. Heard something that made a good impression on me with the ZX300 in contrast to the Solaris, one of the things I'm expecting from the DX220. I'm just hoping the DX220 controls the bass and somehow makes vocals right.

 

[jmills8]

By the way, here's another Z1R impression by one of the posters above.



Apparently this person listens to a lot of iems... including five different units of the FW10k and three of the CL2... so anyway, it may be interesting to check his or her impressions of different iems if you're curious.

Maybe he works in a audio shop.

 

[rutter]

That person didn't seem to be mincing words. I stand corrected.

 

[toranku]

Where I work the shop doesn't carry the FW10K and CL2. Have to travel somewhere else to demo. Would be nice if I could plug them into the store's dmpz1

 

[rutter]

So even your store's DMPZ1 doesn't fix the Z1R's mids?