[Uncle Erik]

Nah, solid state is much more fragile than tubes are. The slightest bit of static or a power surge leaves them dead. If you're handling them, you have to discharge and ground yourself to make sure you don't accidentally fry them accidentally. I've seen solid state devices killed from being put in an ordinary, staticky plastic bag. Further, you almost always have to put solid state on PCBs. PCBs are fragile, too. They have long, thin, delicate copper traces that are easily scratched and damaged by heat. If a trace gets broken, it is difficult to find and repair. You usually have to carefully drill two holes and jumper the break. Replacing a PCB is out of the question - you have to desolder everything and put it back.

Oh, and once solid state chips go out of production after a few years, they are nearly impossible to find and never go back into production.

Tubes are robust. They handle static and surges just fine. While the glass can break, it rarely does. I restore old radios and have tubes that are still going 70 years on. When I find a dead radio, 95% of the time the tubes are fine. It's the old carbon comp resistors and wax capacitors that bring them down. When wired point-to-point, circuits are extremely durable and a snap to repair. If a wire breaks, you can put in a new one in 10 minutes. Not only that, but you can really minimize the circuit path, which is tough on a two dimensional PCB, as well as put in a beefy ground plane without struggling with the same 2D problem.

More than anything, tube circuits are much simpler and straightforward than solid state. Those of us in the minimalist camp appreciate that.

Still, solid state has good points and tubes have flaws. On balance, however, I much prefer tubes.

 

[slwiser]

I was a SS guy until I got my Yamamoto HA-02 and Berning micro-ZOTL.

 

[bada bing]

If you only read the numbers and infer what you'll feel based on calculation - it looks like SS crushes the old tube technology.

If you instead just put the signal to a tube amp and listen, something strange happens. You might see (in a few common rollin choices) a couple of Soviet coldwar era bits of technology warming up and glowing next to couple British pieces of milspec gear. Electrons under glass

.

The whole tube experience is part VooDoo. The amp topologies defy rational prediction. The numbers say the signal is totally inferior to what a SS delivers without the hassles and heft. The listening suggests something different. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. sort of fits the experience and analysis.

Probably isn't the best advice to recommend a tube amp as a first HP amp purchase, but most definately by the 2nd or 3rd one. If you don't have some hours jacked into SS gear, you'll have no reference to get the full contrast.

 

[CountChoculaBot]

Is it true that tube amps don't like very low impedance cans like the D2000?

Do any of these tube amps not like low impedence (25 ohm)?
DV 336i
LDMKII,MKIII,MKIV
Millett Hybrid

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CountChoculaBot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is it true that tube amps don't like very low impedance cans like the D2000? Do any of these tube amps not like low impedence (25 ohm)? DV 336i LDMKII,MKIII,MKIV Millett Hybrid

My Yamamoto HA-02 is voiced for the 50 ohm ATH-W1000 headphone therefore this is myth for some tube amps. Some transformerless (OTL) tube amps may have some issues with low impedance headphones but the transformer is an impedance matching device and takes care of this. the quality of the output transformer becomes very important with these amps.

 

[number1sixerfan]

It is my honest opinion that the sonic differences between solid state and tube is hugely exaggerated. There are differences but from my experience they are not really that great.

I also think we get more pleasure from tube amps because they are plain old "cooler". They tend to look nicer as well as allow you to fine tune the sound with different tubes. So naturally a tweaker would prefer them. However, I also believe that differences in sound between different tubes is also exaggerated. The amp has a sound signature that sticks and the tubes change them slightly, but noticeably.

Just my opinion. *Put's on flameproof jacket*. lol

 

[dBel84]

you've obviously never played with the right amp then

..dB

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dBel84 /img/forum/go_quote.gif you've obviously never played with the right amp then ..dB

Well, I used a ppx3 slam....and I loved it. I bought around $150 worth of tubes to play with and it came with around $75 worth. I could discern the differences between them, but it was rather subtle. I did notice the tubey warm tone but I experience the same thing with HR-2 which is a warm solid state amp.

I enjoy both...but I'm just saying that the "coolness" of tubes plays a part man in how we feel about tube amps. lol I'm telling you it does...

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I used a ppx3 slam....and I loved it. I bought around $150 worth of tubes to play with and it came with around $75 worth. I could discern the differences between them, but it was rather subtle. I did notice the tubey warm tone but I experience the same thing with HR-2 which is a warm solid state amp. I enjoy both...but I'm just saying that the "coolness" of tubes plays a part man in how we feel about tube amps. lol I'm telling you it does...

All things being equal, don't we all pick the coolest gear?

But I really think minimalism is important with tube circuits. I've been picking up parts for one that uses a 5842/417A, volume control, one resistor, one capacitor, and an output transformer in the audio circuit. That's it. Most solid state amps have two, three or four times the parts per channel. The fewer parts, the less that can go wrong and less between the source and your ears.

 

[dBel84]

Have to agree with the coolness factor = got lured into tubes by their mesmerizing effect while listening to music late at night. Some amps are definitely more sensitive to the effects of tube rolling. I have never had the pleasure of listening to a PPX3 but believe it is on the more accurate spectrum of the tube amps. I don't like either end of that spectrum, ie lush vs clinical accuracy which is here the whole tube vs ss argument generally comes in. Both can be designed to sound like the other, hence it is the design that becomes the true discussion. It is just a lot more difficult to design an ss amp not to sound harsh.

The reason I like DIY is that you can "tweak" the amp to suite the particular tube type being used and this is what IMO makes the different elements of the tubes stand out. When it comes down to it though, I really like both and that is why I am an avid supported of the hybrids = tube VAS and class A SS Current Buffer - what more could you ask for?

..dB

Uncle Erik - something to be said of simplicity too. Nelson Pass's mosfet amps and simple parafeed tube amps = almost angelical

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif All things being equal, don't we all pick the coolest gear?

Yup, I'd generally agree here. Just pointing it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dBel84 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have to agree with the coolness factor = got lured into tubes by their mesmerizing effect while listening to music late at night. Some amps are definitely more sensitive to the effects of tube rolling. I have never had the pleasure of listening to a PPX3 but believe it is on the more accurate spectrum of the tube amps. I don't like either end of that spectrum, ie lush vs clinical accuracy which is here the whole tube vs ss argument generally comes in. Both can be designed to sound like the other, hence it is the design that becomes the true discussion. It is just a lot more difficult to design an ss amp not to sound harsh.

Yeah that's a good point. They can each be designed to sound like the other.

 

[pabbi1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchang /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you've read a lot here, and you are still wondering between SS and tubes, you're going to eventually try one of each. It's pretty much your destiny. <snip fpr brevity> Do it. The itch will not go away until you scratch it.

Ah, the itch does NOT go away when scratched - it just gets infected. Alcohol seems to help a little, at least temporarily...

The temptation grows because the designs are getting (and implemented) better all the time.

 

[Solan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bada bing /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you only read the numbers and infer what you'll feel based on calculation - it looks like SS crushes the old tube technology. If you instead just put the signal to a tube amp and listen, something strange happens. ... The whole tube experience is part VooDoo. The amp topologies defy rational prediction.

I think the rational explanation is quite easy: Good solid state is neutral, whereas tube amps (any!) amplify the even overtones moreso than the odd overtones, and overtones are the key to beauty in sound. David Bowie, I heard, is considered to have a beautiful voice precisely because with his voice the troubling 5th overtone is very damped. Tubes make other voices more "Bowie-like" in that regard.

 

[Penchum]

I have a different point of view on this subject. I have both SS and Tube amps and have spent many hours being critical with both. It is my honest opinion that they complement each other. Enough so that having both makes great musical sense. Depending upon your mood, what music you plan on listening too and which of your headphones you might plan on using and which source you will be using, all of these have an impact on which amp you listen too.

My example: If I want to listen to older hard rock from CD, I will use my DAC driving my SS amp with my HD-600s and have a great listen for a short period of time. If I want to listen to some smooth jazz from my reel to reel, I will use one of my tube amps with my HD-650s for an extended period of time. If its late and I don't care to run a bunch of equipment, I might listen using my Zune80 driving one of my tube amps with my HD-650s.

While I can get satisfaction from using only one type of amp, I can get better overall synergy by using the amp and headphones that best fit my listening (enjoyment) session. The flexibility one gains by having both is very refreshing. I wish more HeadFi'ers would check this out. It might be far more cost effective than running through 6 pairs of headphones and 4 different amps, looking for a "fits all situations" amp and headphone combination.

 

[greggf]

A tube amp is even more mesmerizing when taken with cocktails at 3 am.

Tubes are like glorified Christmas lights.

Transistorized equipment just sits there . . . playing music. Somehow, that's just not enough when trying to reproduce music in the home environment, eh?