Smyth Research Realiser A16

[dsperber]

So I actually do both and have not had issues with either. My external sources are all gaming devices and I run those to my tv because they all support HDMI 2.1 which I would lose if I connected directly to the A16. I also use the internal apps on my tv and have no issues with Atmos there either. I just tested using the built in Netflix app playing episode 1 of The Witcher, and was getting 15.1.8 fed to the A16 over eARC. I don't use the internal apps often as I have my streaming boxes connected directly to the A16's HDMI 1-4 ports and I prefer using them.

Absolutely. He did mention that he has a cable from 2010 that is not a 2.0 cable (which makes sense since memory tells me 2.0 officially launched in 2012 or 2013), I sort of sped through his post and didn't seize on that. My assumption is that is the source of all of his Atmos/eARC issues.

All very interesting as well. I see that you've enabled 24-ch support in the A16, which I have not done. I've only received 9.1.6 as Atmos, which I knew was my own choice but it was perfectly fine because I didn't know there was content out there that delivered even more, e.g. 15.1.8 from "The Witcher".

I will re-test again, but first will enable 24-ch support. I wouldn't expect it to be relevant, but who knows.

Note that the only reason I was using Netflix on the C9 as oposed to using it from my Roku, ATV4K or Shield Tube was because of the information stated in this AVS Forum post (scroll down a bit, and expand the "spoiler" to show the details) which addressed which streaming source option was "best". Regarding Netflix it said:

"Netflix- in light of recent issues with audio drops with Atmos on the ATV4K, I find it best to use your TV's native NF app, as it will be getting the same 15Mbps UHD stream the ATV4K does. If you haven't had this issue, the ATV4K is fine, or also the same is the 2019 Shield Pro (either one), so long as you set up framerate matching if you experience issues with that."

So I was just experimenting. And this also gave me another chance to play with eARC, my new A1080 AVR, my A16, etc. I'd already been playing with eARC from the Silicon Dust HDHomeRun app running on my LG C9 as a way of delivering locally-decoded AC-4 DD5.1 audio for the new ATSC 3.0 OTA channels here in LA. These are now available to me through the network-based SD HDHR Flex 4K OTA/ATSC tuner I bought in December that supports both ATSC 1.0 and 3.0.

And that's how I ran into this issue, using "The Two Popes" on Netflix app on the C9, with my A16 still set at 16-ch.

As an aside, I mention that I am back to my "original normal" cabling arrangement, which passes my Roku Ultra 2020, ATV4K 2019 and Shield Tube 2019 into three HDMI inputs of my A16. The fourth HDMI input of the A16 is for audio-only HDMI2-out of my Oppo UDP-203 (used for listening to headphone audio from DVD/BluRay discs played on the 203). Main video-only HDMI1-out of the 203 goes to HDMI2-in on my A1080 AVR. All the other three audio/video sources into the A16 have their video passed-through its HDMI-out and into HDMI3-in on my A1080 AVR. And HDMI1-out of the A1080 AVR goes to the LG C9.

I also have my Windows Media Center extender (aka "cable box" for HDTV) going into the external HDMI input of the 203, where 720p/1080i HDTV gets deinterlaced and upscaled to 2160p and then its audio/video delivered via main HDMI1-out to the A1080 AVR. I normally don't have the A16 powered on when watching ordinary TV. This allows me to watch 5.1 audio TV through my 2.0 speakers managed by the AVR, which I have set as "2ch-stereo" when sourced for HDTV->203->AVR.

Also, with the TV still connected to the HDMI1-out of the AVR this also supports eARC from TV app to the AVR, for delivery again through the 2.0 speakers. This eARC-mode audio is again played through "2ch-stereo" option of the AVR (which down-mixes 5.1 audio from a TV program to 2.0 for listening).

Only when I want to listen to anything through A16/headphones do I then power on the A16. The four HDMI inputs of the A16 support the four possible sources for audio/video. The three streamers provide both source audio/video, and the audio-only coming from the 203 is for listening to something from HDTV via headphones.

So no cable switching needed for any of the above situations. The only cable switching ever needed is if I want to listen to a TV app via eARC audio and also through headphones. Then I have to physically move the HDMI1-out AVR-end of the HDMI cable going to the TV over to the HDMI-out of the A16. And... temporarily connect a second HDMI cable from any input on the A16 to the HDMI-out of the AVR, to get Atmos instead of just 5.1 audio.

Nevertheless I will re-try the whole eARC story again, after putting my A16 into 24-ch mode. I didn't do that before because I never had a personalized PRIR for Atmos. I've only been using my AIX 7.1 PRIR for the ear-level speakers, and adding in the BBC speakers for everything. Since they were not personalized anyway I just stayed with 9.1.6 via 16-ch configuration. But I will change that now, on the off-chance it somehow affects eARC and Atmos from Netflix on the TV app.

 

[dsperber]

I'm not sure if this is actually my A16 is being shipped already, but I got a notice from UPS yesterday, and one today and kind of ignored it until just now because I was expecting something from Amazon today (that arrived yesterday). I just got another update and looked at the location, and it says the label was made yesterday in the UK, and my package is currently at Newtownabbey UK, scheduled to arrive tomorrow. If that's the A16, that was a very quick delivery. When James said up to fourteen days, I was actually thinking I'd see mine anywhere between the second and third week of this month.

UPS may not have mentioned it, but there's a good chance you may have to pay the import tax due, by check to the delivery guy when he brings it.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

All very interesting as well. I see that you've enabled 24-ch support in the A16, which I have not done. I've only received 9.1.6 as Atmos, which I knew was my own choice but it was perfectly fine because I didn't know there was content out there that delivered even more, e.g. 15.1.8 from "The Witcher".

I will re-test again, but first will enable 24-ch support. I wouldn't expect it to be relevant, but who knows.

Note that the only reason I was using Netflix on the C9 as oposed to using it from my Roku, ATV4K or Shield Tube was because of the information stated in this AVS Forum post (scroll down a bit, and expand the "spoiler" to show the details) which addressed which streaming source option was "best". Regarding Netflix it said:

"Netflix- in light of recent issues with audio drops with Atmos on the ATV4K, I find it best to use your TV's native NF app, as it will be getting the same 15Mbps UHD stream the ATV4K does. If you haven't had this issue, the ATV4K is fine, or also the same is the 2019 Shield Pro (either one), so long as you set up framerate matching if you experience issues with that."

So I was just experimenting. And this also gave me another chance to play with eARC, my new A1080 AVR, my A16, etc. I'd already been playing with eARC from the Silicon Dust HDHomeRun app running on my LG C9 as a way of delivering locally-decoded AC-4 DD5.1 audio for the new ATSC 3.0 OTA channels here in LA. These are now available to me through the network-based SD HDHR Flex 4K OTA/ATSC tuner I bought in December that supports both ATSC 1.0 and 3.0.

And that's how I ran into this issue, using "The Two Popes" on Netflix app on the C9, with my A16 still set at 16-ch.

As an aside, I mention that I am back to my "original normal" cabling arrangement, which passes my Roku Ultra 2020, ATV4K 2019 and Shield Tube 2019 into three HDMI inputs of my A16. The fourth HDMI input of the A16 is for audio-only HDMI2-out of my Oppo UDP-203 (used for listening to headphone audio from DVD/BluRay discs played on the 203). Main video-only HDMI1-out of the 203 goes to HDMI2-in on my A1080 AVR. All the other three audio/video sources into the A16 have their video passed-through its HDMI-out and into HDMI3-in on my A1080 AVR. And HDMI1-out of the A1080 AVR goes to the LG C9.

I also have my Windows Media Center extender (aka "cable box" for HDTV) going into the external HDMI input of the 203, where 720p/1080i HDTV gets deinterlaced and upscaled to 2160p and then its audio/video delivered via main HDMI1-out to the A1080 AVR. I normally don't have the A16 powered on when watching ordinary TV. This allows me to watch 5.1 audio TV through my 2.0 speakers managed by the AVR, which I have set as "2ch-stereo" when sourced for HDTV->203->AVR.

Also, with the TV still connected to the HDMI1-out of the AVR this also supports eARC from TV app to the AVR, for delivery again through the 2.0 speakers. This eARC-mode audio is again played through "2ch-stereo" option of the AVR (which down-mixes 5.1 audio from a TV program to 2.0 for listening).

Only when I want to listen to anything through A16/headphones do I then power on the A16. The four HDMI inputs of the A16 support the four possible sources for audio/video. The three streamers provide both source audio/video, and the audio-only coming from the 203 is for listening to something from HDTV via headphones.

So no cable switching needed for any of the above situations. The only cable switching ever needed is if I want to listen to a TV app via eARC audio and also through headphones. Then I have to physically move the HDMI1-out AVR-end of the HDMI cable going to the TV over to the HDMI-out of the A16. And... temporarily connect a second HDMI cable from any input on the A16 to the HDMI-out of the AVR, to get Atmos instead of just 5.1 audio.

Nevertheless I will re-try the whole eARC story again, after putting my A16 into 24-ch mode. I didn't do that before because I never had a personalized PRIR for Atmos. I've only been using my AIX 7.1 PRIR for the ear-level speakers, and adding in the BBC speakers for everything. Since they were not personalized anyway I just stayed with 9.1.6 via 16-ch configuration. But I will change that now, on the off-chance it somehow affects eARC and Atmos from Netflix on the TV app.

My understanding of Atmos is that it's not layout specific. Rather it creates sonic objects, and uses as many speakers (actual or virtual) to recreate those objects as you have in your layout. Thus whether you have 7.1.4, 9.1.6, or 15.1.8--all the speakers in the layout will be utilized and active.

 

[dsperber]

My understanding of Atmos is that it's not layout specific. Rather it creates sonic objects, and uses as many speakers (actual or virtual) to recreate those objects as you have in your layout. Thus whether you have 7.1.4, 9.1.6, or 15.1.8--all the speakers in the layout will be utilized and active.

True. Interestingly, the fabrication of which speakers get used is apparently not simply a matter of the number and names of available virtual speakers. Clearly the sound designer has determined when/where sound should be coming from depending on the scene itself. And then the Atmos technology must figure out how best to direct sound as appropriate.

In my now re-tested eARC situation I first enabled 24ch on the A16. Then I created a new 15.1.8 listening room again by superimposing my own personal AIX 7.1 PRIR on top of the other 16 speakers taken from the newly provided BBC factory listening room. Then I ran assorted tests (results down further below). But what was interesting was that the same source movies on Netflix (I used both "The Two Popes" and "The Witcher") produced essentially identical A16 audio meter presentations as far as visualizing what speakers were being utilized.

Here is 9.1.6 vs. 15.1.8 (note that in both arrangements not all "physically available" speakers were made use of):

Note that Ltf and Rtf are available in both 9.1.6 and 15.1.8 setups, and yet Ltf and Rtf was only used in the 15.1.8 configuration.

Also, Ltm and Rtm were the only height speakers used in the 9.16 arrangement (but not available in 15.1.8), whereas Ltf/Ltr and Rtf/Rtr were used in the 15.1.8 arrangement. This is interesting, since the same Ltf/Ltr and Rtf/Rtr speakers are also available in 9.1.6.

So just because 15.1.8 is technically what is being sent, this doesn't mean all 24 channels are being utilized at all times, if ever. Depends.

 

[Sanctuary]

Looking back over the thread, @Sanctuary you were able to pay the difference between your preorder and full price, is that right?

How long did it take between contacting Smyth and seeing this ship notice?

The first time I actually sent the email informing them of my desire to just pay the difference was January 14th, but then I didn't get a reply until the 19th, after sending a second email. After sending the requested information, it took another week to get a reply for that, and then five days later it was being shipped.

So I actually do both and have not had issues with either. My external sources are all gaming devices and I run those to my tv because they all support HDMI 2.1 which I would lose if I connected directly to the A16. I also use the internal apps on my tv and have no issues with Atmos there either. I just tested using the built in Netflix app playing episode 1 of The Witcher, and was getting 15.1.8 fed to the A16 over eARC. I don't use the internal apps often as I have my streaming boxes connected directly to the A16's HDMI 1-4 ports and I prefer using them.

Absolutely. He did mention that he has a cable from 2010 that is not a 2.0 cable (which makes sense since memory tells me 2.0 officially launched in 2012 or 2013), I sort of sped through his post and didn't seize on that. My assumption is that is the source of all of his Atmos/eARC issues.

You don't get Dolby Vision while running it directly to the A16 do you, or does it work differently when using the internal apps? I just assumed I wouldn't bother using the A16 for streaming, since I would rather watch Dolby Vision over just standard HDR, and the last thing I knew, the A16 still wasn't capable of passing Dolby Vision. I thought when using eARC that it was passing both the audio and the video through the A16, not just the audio. Does this only apply when using external devices, and the TV only sends audio while using the internal apps?

edit: What "gaming devices" are you using that even utilize HDMI 2.1 right now other than potentially a PC GPU? Is it simply needed for eARC to work correctly? Is it for potential 120fps gaming, as well as VRR?

 

[dsperber]

So I've now rerun my eARC tests, with my C9. It is perhaps possible that LG made some changes in eARC with the CX and newer, or perhaps that there is yet something else deep in the A16 setting somewhere that is causing behavior in my setup to be different than what happens in your environment.

But I can absolutely re-confirm that my previously reported results are 100% the same. I disconnected ALL cables going into or out from the A16, and only connected the single 20ft-optical/HDMI cable which works perfectly in eARC mode when connected to the HDMI1-out of my AVR. In other words the cable is blameless in the story, because Netflix app on the C9 does deliver Dolby Atmos to the AVR via eARC. But when the same HDMI cable is connected to the HDMI-out of the A16, now the C9's Netflix app only delivers 5.1 to the A16 via eARC.

And then, if I simply add one additional HDMI cable going from HDMI1-in on the A16 to HDMI1-out of the AVR (leaving the optical HDMI cable still going between TV and A16 HDMI-out) well now the same Netflix app on the TV does deliver Atmos audio to the A16. That is the only thing tweaked, and also what obviously is responsible for convincing the TV's Netflix app that Atmos is supported via eARC.

Again to repeat my results: if only the C9 (HDMI2-in) and the A16 a(HDMI-out) are connected with the one HDMI cable, eARC is possible (so that sound is available from headphones) but only 5.1 audio is delivered by the Netflix app. And if I now connect a second HDMI cable going from HDMI1-in of the A16 to HDMI1-out of the AVR, well now Atmos is delivered (but as I note below, the AVR must also be and remain POWERED ON).

Now a few very interesting observations during this carefully conducted re-test:

(1) After adding that second HDMI cable between A16 HDMI1-in and AVR HDMI1-out, powering the TV off and the AVR off and just leaving the A16 on with its eARC-enabled preset in effect, if I then power the TV on the AVR automatically also powers on (as a result of HDMI-CEC of course). And the TV's audio out still sits at HDMI-ARC. And the TV's Netflix app shows Atmos audio to be sent via eARC (to the A16, which is as far as it will go with nothing actually sent to the AVR). Power the TV off, and the AVR powers off. Power the TV on, and the AVR powers on. Obviously HDMI-CEC involving the TV and AVR is facilitated through that second HDMI cable between A16 and AVR.

(2) If I now manually power off the AVR (which is the key component apparently, which told the TV's Netflix app that Dolby Atmos was acceptable via eARC), the TV's audio output instantly changes to "internal speakers". No sound is sent to the A16 via eARC (which obviously has been disabled as a result of turning off the AVR when Atmos audio was involved). Instead, the C9 now briefly displays both "Dolby Vision" and "Dolby Atmos" badges in the upper-right corner of the screen. In other words the only way the TV and Netflix app can handle the Atmos audio is using the TV's internal speakers and processing for Atmos. The A16 seems irrelevant, as long as the AVR is powered off (and still connected to the A16 through that second HDMI cable).

(3) If I manually try to reset audio out on the TV to bring back HDMI-ARC, I cannot as long as the AVR is powered off. And as long as the AVR remains powered off the TV simply bounces back immediately to "internal speakers" every time I try to force "HDMI-ARC". And therefore it is impossible to get sound from the A16, since the TV is not in HDMI-ARC mode. Only if I manually power the AVR back on again will I now be able to force "HDMI-ARC" to be back in effect on the TV, thus now delivering audio to the A16 which will in fact be Atmos because of the secondary HDMI connection to the AVR which is powered on.

This is all exactly as it was previously, which prompted my previous post describing the failure of eARC/Atmos if the A16 was "dead-ended". Only with that second HDMI cable connecting the A16 to the AVR was Atmos possible from the A16 via eARC.

 

[Sanctuary]

So I've now rerun my eARC tests, with my C9. It is perhaps possible that LG made some changes in eARC with the CX and newer, or perhaps that there is yet something else deep in the A16 setting somewhere that is causing behavior in my setup to be different than what happens in your environment.

But I can absolutely re-confirm that my previously reported results are 100% the same. I disconnected ALL cables going into or out from the A16, and only connected the single 20ft-optical/HDMI cable which works perfectly in eARC mode when connected to the HDMI1-out of my AVR. In other words the cable is blameless in the story, because Netflix app on the C9 does deliver Dolby Atmos to the AVR via eARC. But when the same HDMI cable is connected to the HDMI-out of the A16, now the C9's Netflix app only delivers 5.1 to the A16 via eARC.

And then, if I simply add one additional HDMI cable going from HDMI1-in on the A16 to HDMI1-out of the AVR (leaving the optical HDMI cable still going between TV and A16 HDMI-out) well now the same Netflix app on the TV does deliver Atmos audio to the A16. That is the only thing tweaked, and also what obviously is responsible for convincing the TV's Netflix app that Atmos is supported via eARC.

Again to repeat my results: if only the C9 (HDMI2-in) and the A16 a(HDMI-out) are connected with the one HDMI cable, eARC is possible (so that sound is available from headphones) but only 5.1 audio is delivered by the Netflix app. And if I now connect a second HDMI cable going from HDMI1-in of the A16 to HDMI1-out of the AVR, well now Atmos is delivered (but as I note below, the AVR must also be and remain POWERED ON).

Now a few very interesting observations during this carefully conducted re-test:

(1) After adding that second HDMI cable between A16 HDMI1-in and AVR HDMI1-out, powering the TV off and the AVR off and just leaving the A16 on with its eARC-enabled preset in effect, if I then power the TV on the AVR automatically also powers on (as a result of HDMI-CEC of course). And the TV's audio out still sits at HDMI-ARC. And the TV's Netflix app shows Atmos audio to be sent via eARC (to the A16, which is as far as it will go with nothing actually sent to the AVR). Power the TV off, and the AVR powers off. Power the TV on, and the AVR powers on. Obviously HDMI-CEC involving the TV and AVR is facilitated through that second HDMI cable between A16 and AVR.

(2) If I now manually power off the AVR (which is the key component apparently, which told the TV's Netflix app that Dolby Atmos was acceptable via eARC), the TV's audio output instantly changes to "internal speakers". No sound is sent to the A16 via eARC (which obviously has been disabled as a result of turning off the AVR when Atmos audio was involved). Instead, the C9 now briefly displays both "Dolby Vision" and "Dolby Atmos" badges in the upper-right corner of the screen. In other words the only way the TV and Netflix app can handle the Atmos audio is using the TV's internal speakers and processing for Atmos. The A16 seems irrelevant, as long as the AVR is powered off (and still connected to the A16 through that second HDMI cable).

(3) If I manually try to reset audio out on the TV to bring back HDMI-ARC, I cannot as long as the AVR is powered off. And as long as the AVR remains powered off the TV simply bounces back immediately to "internal speakers" every time I try to force "HDMI-ARC". And therefore it is impossible to get sound from the A16, since the TV is not in HDMI-ARC mode. Only if I manually power the AVR back on again will I now be able to force "HDMI-ARC" to be back in effect on the TV, thus now delivering audio to the A16 which will in fact be Atmos because of the secondary HDMI connection to the AVR which is powered on.

This is all exactly as it was previously, which prompted my previous post describing the failure of eARC/Atmos if the A16 was "dead-ended". Only with that second HDMI cable connecting the A16 to the AVR was Atmos possible from the A16 via eARC.

Well, it looks like yet another reason for me to upgrade my C8. Was going to this year if getting the A16 wasn't going to be possible until closer to December, but now I'll probably just wait until around this time next year and get a C2 (what are they going to do with their naming scheme once we hit 2028?). I'll try my TV out just to see, but it likely won't work as it's an older model. Although mine still outputs DTS, which LG did away with I think starting with the C9. IIRC, the early OLEDs had constant eARC issues, and they did finally iron out the kinks, but I hadn't been closely following as to the when as it wasn't pertinent information at the time for my uses.

As far as an import tax goes, that would have been nice to know upfront since I'm a little strapped right at the moment. Would have been easy enough to cover with the CC. Hopefully if there is a tax, it's not in the hundreds.

 

[dsperber]

Note that the requirement for the AVR to be connected to the A16 in order for Atmos audio to be delivered to the A16 from apps is NOT TRUE for the four external sources connected to the HDMI inputs of the A16 itself.

In other words I can "disconnect" the AVR completely from the A16, and move the HDMI cable to the HDMI-out of the A16 (thus utilizing the A16 100% for sound, and passing on video from all sources directly to the TV... with no AVR involvement at all), and everything works perfectly! The Netflix app on all sources WILL deliver Atmos audio, of course only going as far as the A16 which then passes only video on to the TV. So the apps appear convinced that the A16 CAN accept Atmos.

However I'm not so convinced. I suspect it might be the connected TV itself... WHICH HANLDES ATMOS... that might be the "secret partner" here that is allowing the apps running on the source devices going into the A16 to deliver Atmos. Yes, just as with the TV's Netflix app that "sees the AVR" through the A16 via HDMI cable magic, and discovers that the AVR can handle Atmos, so the TV sends Atmos via eARC to the connected A16 which handles Atmos perfectly, in this second story maybe it is the TV itself which is the "silent partner" that says "I can accept Atmos". And hence the apps on the external devices send Atmos which gets picked off by the A16, so it all looks fine.

But perhaps even in this second seemingly successful story NOT INVOLVING THE AVR, perhaps it is again actually the downstream HDMI-connected device which is really testifying that Atmos is acceptable... and not the A16 all by itself! At least that's kind of how it appears. Without that secondary downstream device (either Atmos-capable TV of Atmos-capable AVR) connected via HDMI to the A16, the upstream app won't allow Atmos.

Now I can only prove this when I can actually see something on the TV screen, in order to navigate the source. Theoretically if I disconnect HDMI-out from the A16 (i.e. not going to either TV or AVR) then if my theory is correct none of the sources should be willing to deliver Atmos. Of course I need to be in the app, and navigate to the movie and press OK... all "blind" (since there's no TV connected) in order to prove that. I can see the audio coming into the A16 from its own display screen, but I need to get the app started playing a movie first. And flying "blind" is tricky.

But I will see if I can get that started successfully, and then see by the A16 whether it is getting 5.1 or Atmos.

 

[dsperber]

Well, it looks like yet another reason for me to upgrade my C8. Was going to this year if getting the A16 wasn't going to be possible until closer to December, but now I'll probably just wait until around this time next year and get a C2 (what are they going to do with their naming scheme once we hit 2028?). I'll try my TV out just to see, but it likely won't work as it's an older model. Although mine still outputs DTS, which LG did away with I think starting with the C9. IIRC, the early OLEDs had constant eARC issues, and they did finally iron out the kinks, but I hadn't been closely following as to the when as it wasn't pertinent information at the time for my uses.

As far as an import tax goes, that would have been nice to know upfront since I'm a little strapped right at the moment. Would have been easy enough to cover with the CC. Hopefully if there is a tax, it's not in the hundreds.

I believe the tax was something like $33, as I recall. I believe I found that out because the previous day they'd come to deliver and I wasn't expecting them and so wasn't at home. Since they couldn't get their money they didn't deliver, but did leave a note. I left a check in an envelope on the door for the re-delivery attempt, and that was apparently acceptable. I don't think I signed for it at re-delivery, they just took my check and left the carton at the door.

At least that's how my memory tells me it all happened back then.

 

[Sanctuary]

I believe the tax was something like $33, as I recall. I believe I found that out because the previous day they'd come to deliver and I wasn't expecting them and so wasn't at home. Since they couldn't get their money they didn't deliver, but did leave a note. I left a check in an envelope on the door for the re-delivery attempt, and that was apparently acceptable. I don't think I signed for it at re-delivery, they just took my check and left the carton at the door.

At least that's how my memory tells me it all happened back then.

Oh, that's nothing. The shipping was already $70, which I assumed might already cover some import fees, but maybe that was just for insurance and expedition. Would have been beneficial if any potential fee would have already been factored into the total, but no biggie I suppose. I'm just glad it's finally happening for me. Could have probably gotten it sooner, but I foolishly hoped that they would finally start getting to the pre-orders by the middle of last year.

 

[sander99]

True. Interestingly, the fabrication of which speakers get used is apparently not simply a matter of the number and names of available virtual speakers. Clearly the sound designer has determined when/where sound should be coming from depending on the scene itself. And then the Atmos technology must figure out how best to direct sound as appropriate.

In my now re-tested eARC situation I first enabled 24ch on the A16. Then I created a new 15.1.8 listening room again by superimposing my own personal AIX 7.1 PRIR on top of the other 16 speakers taken from the newly provided BBC factory listening room. Then I ran assorted tests (results down further below). But what was interesting was that the same source movies on Netflix (I used both "The Two Popes" and "The Witcher") produced essentially identical A16 audio meter presentations as far as visualizing what speakers were being utilized.

Here is 9.1.6 vs. 15.1.8 (note that in both arrangements not all "physically available" speakers were made use of):



Note that Ltf and Rtf are available in both 9.1.6 and 15.1.8 setups, and yet Ltf and Rtf was only used in the 15.1.8 configuration.

Also, Ltm and Rtm were the only height speakers used in the 9.16 arrangement (but not available in 15.1.8), whereas Ltf/Ltr and Rtf/Rtr were used in the 15.1.8 arrangement. This is interesting, since the same Ltf/Ltr and Rtf/Rtr speakers are also available in 9.1.6.

So just because 15.1.8 is technically what is being sent, this doesn't mean all 24 channels are being utilized at all times, if ever. Depends.

I think what actually happened here is this:
The sound designer placed a sound object straight above the listener. At playback the Atmos decoder then tries to use, from the available speakers, one or more speakers that are most suitable to render the sound object at the proper location. If a speaker layout had been used with a speaker straight above the listener (Atmos doesn't have such a layout as far as I know, but if it had) then it would have rendered the sound with that speaker alone. If a layout is used with Ltm and Rtm speakers then the best way to render a sound straight above the listener is to pan it between those two speakers, using Ltf/Ltr and Rtf/Rtr as well would have been sub-optimal. If using a layout where Ltm and Rtm are not available, but Ltf/Ltr and Rtf/Rtr are then the best way to render a sound straight above is panning it between those four speakers.
So it is not so much using as many speakers as possible, but using the most suitable speakers that are available. And if the movie uses sound objects "all over the place" then all available speakers would be used at some point, but maybe not all at the same moment.

So,

My understanding of Atmos is that it's not layout specific. Rather it creates sonic objects, and uses as many speakers (actual or virtual) to recreate those objects as you have in your layout. Thus whether you have 7.1.4, 9.1.6, or 15.1.8--all the speakers in the layout will be utilized and active.

is almost completely correct except for one subtlety: replace uses by can use and will by can.

 

[Sanctuary]

Is there a specific size limitation on what microSD cards can be used? With the A8 it was a 2GB limit, and in the A16 videos it suggests using either 16GB or 32GB, but I currently only have a 64GB card. Do I need to go out and get a smaller one before I can even import my PRIRs? The user manual doesn't state anything about it, so I'm assuming that maybe the video was just suggesting the sizes it did because those tend to be the most reliable.

Also, while I absolutely know this isn't optimal by any means, I had some questions about mixing PRIRS as well as BRIRs into a single listening room. It's just something I am going to mess around with until I can actually book studio time in the future.

What would be the best way to add additional speakers that go beyond my own 7.1 PRIR to a listening room: should I be using manLOUD on a BRIR alone, or should I also be adding it to my own PRIR before combining both? I was under the assumption that manLOUD was used with a listening room after all of the virtual speakers you wanted to use were populated, but that doesn't seem to be the case, and that it's strictly per PRIR?

What if I have a PRIR that has a pair of rears that sound better than on my generally best 7.1 PRIR and I want to use those, but the rest of that PRIR is royally screwed up volume wise, should manLOUD be avoided in that case? When combining PRIRs/BRIRs should I be using a specific filter combination?

 

[Got the Shakes]

The first time I actually sent the email informing them of my desire to just pay the difference was January 14th, but then I didn't get a reply until the 19th, after sending a second email. After sending the requested information, it took another week to get a reply for that, and then five days later it was being shipped.


You don't get Dolby Vision while running it directly to the A16 do you, or does it work differently when using the internal apps? I just assumed I wouldn't bother using the A16 for streaming, since I would rather watch Dolby Vision over just standard HDR, and the last thing I knew, the A16 still wasn't capable of passing Dolby Vision. I thought when using eARC that it was passing both the audio and the video through the A16, not just the audio. Does this only apply when using external devices, and the TV only sends audio while using the internal apps?

edit: What "gaming devices" are you using that even utilize HDMI 2.1 right now other than potentially a PC GPU? Is it simply needed for eARC to work correctly? Is it for potential 120fps gaming, as well as VRR?

Dolby Vision works fine with my Nvidia Shield Pro and Apple TV 4K connected directly to the A16.

I have a PC I built with a RTX 3080, a PlayStation 5, and a Xbox Series X. I connect them directly to be able is utilize 4K with HDR at above 60 fps and VRR. With HDMI 2.0 you cannot play at 4K with HDR enabled and anything above 60 fps. It does not have the bandwidth for it, but HDMI 2.1 does. VRR same deal. I have a CX with supports VRR and G-Sync. The Series X and PC support Atmos which is why eARC working correctly is needed.

 

[Sanctuary]

Dolby Vision works fine with my Nvidia Shield Pro and Apple TV 4K connected directly to the A16.

I have a PC I built with a RTX 3080, a PlayStation 5, and a Xbox Series X. I connect them directly to be able is utilize 4K with HDR at above 60 fps and VRR. With HDMI 2.0 you cannot play at 4K with HDR enabled and anything above 60 fps. It does not have the bandwidth for it, but HDMI 2.1 does. VRR same deal. I have a CX with supports VRR and G-Sync. The Series X and PC support Atmos which is why eARC working correctly is needed.

Maybe I was just misunderstanding how eARC worked, but I thought some of us raised a fuss over the initial A16 build because it wasn't modernized to pass HDR, which meant that it was going to hinder 4K players other than the sound, and similary with the consoles. Later that got updated, but I thought it was for HDR10 only, unless the way it works is somehow now different. For me, that became kind of a moot point though inevitably since my player has a dedicated audio only out as well, which is what I've been using with the A8.

I also have a 3080, but my current TV is limited to 60fps, so I think the only benefit I might have gotten out of 2.1 would have been Full RGB 4:4:4 at 60fps. I also only have ARC, but even though I have Atmos options with the TV, I'm assuming this means it likely won't work with the A16. Anyway, it's good to know that you can actually stream DV with the A16. I never even considered I'd be using it for that.

 

[dsperber]

Is there a specific size limitation on what microSD cards can be used? With the A8 it was a 2GB limit, and in the A16 videos it suggests using either 16GB or 32GB, but I currently only have a 64GB card. Do I need to go out and get a smaller one before I can even import my PRIRs?

No size limitation on the microSD cards, because it MUST be formatted FAT32. This supports long file names and large sizes of 16GB, 32GB, 64GB, etc..

The old 2GB SD cards for the A8 were formatted FAT, with file names that were 8.3.

Don't forget that in order to be imported into the A16 via microSD card they must first be exported from the A8 onto SD card being written out by the latest A8 firmware. This will create file names of HPEQ20xx.SVS and PRIR20xx.SVS and in the proper format usable by the A16 for importing. Then you copy them from the FAT/SD card out of the A8 onto a FAT32/microSD card for the A16, placing the files in the correct sub-folders as required for the IMPORT:

\Realiser\HPEQS
\Realiser\PRIRS

If you enable the BMP screenshot option (so that the # key in the lower-right corner of the remote takes a screenshot to the inserted microSD card), the resulting BMP files (each one 460.854 bytes in size) will all be placed in the parent \Realiser folder. This is a very useful feature for documentation, problem or question description, etc.

The screenshot itself takes about 5+ seconds to complete, during which the display screen "freezes" and a faint green light inside the microSD card reader drive lights up to indicate the drive is in use. The green light goes out and the screen will return to normal active presentation once the writing of the BMP file is finished. The BMP file names include date and time but otherwise no identifying info as to what the screenshot itself contains. You''ll simply have to look at the BMP files with an image browser on your computer and pick and choose as you like, renaming them according to your own purpose if you want to keep them permanently.