[dsperber]

Well, one of my main use cases for my A16 is a bust. I wanted to be able to watch streaming content with Atmos (a growing segment) and I use an AppleTV 4K as my primary streamer. But it converts Dobly Digital+ Atmos into Dolby MAT 2.0 (PCM plus Atmos extensions) and the A16 did not do anything with that.
Is that something that's been announced as combining soon? Or did I maybe not do something right WRT to configuration?

Are there any streaming platforms that output something the A16 is happy with?

Maybe I'm not understanding your complaint.

My A16 shows Dolby Atmos 9.1.6 being produced from multiple movies which are "badged" as Dolby Atmos, from multiple streaming sources delivering Dolby Digital+ Atmos. I have three presets (for three listening rooms) allocated to the ATV4K: (1) 5.1 PCM from my AIX 5.1 PRIR, (2) 7.1 PCM from my AIX 7.1 PRIR, (3) 9.1.6 Atmos from the sum of my AIX 7.1 + BBC Surrey for remaining speakers.

So when using preset (3), i.e. A16 is prepared to receive Dolby Atmos stream from ATV4K (which seemingly delivers DD+ Atmos bitstream, as my A16 apparently understands it perfectly), there doesn't seem to be a conversion to Dolby MAT:

(a) From Netflix, at least "The Irishman" and "The Two Popes" are badged for DV+DA and deliver both. My LG C9 shows "Dolby Vision" and the A16 shows Dolby Atmos 9.1.6. Takes maybe 10 seconds for the initial burst of audio, which displays initially as PCM until the stream settles down and the A16 understands what it is being fed, to then revert the display correctly to show "Dolby Atmos".

(b) From Prime Video, at least "Jack Ryan" is badged for UHD+HDR with no mention of audio. But it delivers Dolby Atmos 9.1.6 according to the A16.

(c) From HBO Max, at least "Judas and the Black Messiah" is badged for DV+DA and delivers both.

(d) From Hulu I don't believe there is any DA content yet.

Using the Audio Meter on the A16 to confirm, there's no question all 16 channels of audio are being seen, received, and handled as expected, for the DA content as confirmed above.

Can't imagine why you wouldn't be seeing the same results with your setup.

Just to confirm ATV4k Settings:
Audio -> Audio format -> Change format is OFF, immersive audio DOLBY ATMOS is ON.
Audio -> Audio mode is AUTO

 

[Litlgi74]

I don't have an AV receiver at all. I use a miniDSP 2 x 4 HD and I run my LS 50's to 100 hz and run the sub to 100 hz to augment the bass of both speakers. When I captured the sub I just disconnected the left LS 50, and used the Audiohobbit method. I have a special eq of the LS 50s that is published in the LS 50 review thread on Audio Science Review. It improves their sound considerably as does the SB2000 sub

Perfect! Have you been using the "test" button before saving the PRIR to check the IPER and IRVR values?

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Perfect! Have you been using the "test" button before saving the PRIR to check the IPER and IRVR values?

Yeah, they're not great. I think it's because I have a fairly noise place where I can hear traffic and also b/c the subwoofer is mated to every channel and it, I think, probably drags those scores down. I'll experiment further after I get a new pair of LS 50 Metas next month, and get my Purifi Eigentact amp up running along with a digital windows based crossover to replace the miniDSP.

Baby steps.

 

[castleofargh]

Every time someone discusses settings and measurements, I reach for the keyboard to answer, thinking that it's exactly what I've done a few times myself, so I can help. Then I try to organize my thoughts and 'realize' that I've forgotten how to actually do half of it. It's been about a year and I'm already a noob again.

 

[audiohobbit]

Yup, I know what you're talkin about...
Even if the A16 is way easier to use than the A8, it is still a beast to handle...

Having run the measurements, I inspected the PRIR impulse responses and they looked clean (I know what my system IR looks like, I'm a heavy REW user), so I think the tracks are fine.

You could try to do a stereo sync PRIR measurement and compare it to the async measurement.

There can be differences between the PRIR and the real thing because the ear canal is blocked by the mics during the measurement and the individual ear canal resonance is missing. This often results in a too bright sounding experience compared to the real speaker sound.
If the S/N ratio is too low during PRIR measurement this can result in a more echoey sound.
This is according to Stephen, but I somehow can confirm this myself especially for the brightness. If you don't have the real speakers available you can try to compensate the brightness with manLOUD HPEQ procedure, if you have the speakers, as I understand you do, you can try the manSPKR HPEQ to compare the headphone sound to the real speakers. But I think this could be difficult. But you may give it a try.

This is a message I received from James today : (after 4 strongly worded reminders one after the other last Friday ; still I remained polite though I had to restrain myself)
...The exchange is almost complete, just final testing.
We are nearing the end of the DTS certification, unlike Dolby, DTS is a very difficult process, and they themselves don't offer much support.
Auro 3D will be released with DTS as it's closely associated with DTS...

Thanks for the info.
Although they are always "almost finished", it's still good news that things are moving forward, even at a very low speed though... or as Stephen said in his last E-Mail "painfully slow".

 

[Anakin1976]

See below the E-Mail I've received on February 28 :

Hi Mr Schneider,

Thanks for getting in touch.
We are going through a restocking, and because there is some hardware changes the testing time will be longer. Once we are happy with the unit we will begin to ship the remaining KS units. Once they're are complete we will start with pre-orders.
I'll be in touch once we get going again. It should be within 1-2 months max.

Kind regards
James

 

[audiohobbit]

Once they're are complete

The typo confirms that it really comes from James...

 

[Fox1977]

1-2 months max in Smyth Research time, it's rather 4-6 months

 

[JonFo]

My A16 shows Dolby Atmos 9.1.6 being produced from multiple movies which are "badged" as Dolby Atmos, from multiple streaming sources delivering Dolby Digital+ Atmos.

Thanks so much for all the details.

My root problem was the feed from the receiver was on HDMI2, my preset was on HDMI1 but the Audio Source was set to HDMI2, which worked with BluRay sources, but not the ATV.

I re-wired the feed from the receiver to go to HDMI1, turned off 'Audio Source', and now I get Atmos from the ATV4K from Netflix and Tidal.

Lesson: check inputs more carefully
And: Audio Source override is not quite the same as having a direct selection of source in the Preset (that, or HDMI1 is more 'special')

Now I have a new Sheild Pro to go play with ...

 

[JonFo]

You could try to do a stereo sync PRIR measurement and compare it to the async measurement

Thanks, next time I'm in the HT doing a PRIR, I'll do that.

The tonal balance is good, what I think is part of the deal is that my 51 setup is unusual in that the rears are truly in the Lrs/Rrs positions at 149 degrees.
But 'normal' sides (Lss/Rss) are at 110 max. So music mixed to image at 90 to 110 degrees sounds more to rear-biased on the real system, but the realizer renders it to the correct locations of ~100 degrees, with now does not match when I take off the cans.

I've now listened to a couple of movies and more Atmos music, and when I paid attention to the channel output meters on the A16, one sees the Lrs/Rss are hardly ever active in a 7.1.4 layout.
Now that I've gotten acclimated to the more correct rendering via the A16. Pretty satisfied.

I'll do a loudMAN on the HPEQ, as the first HPEQ benefited from that since I'm 63 with hearing that rolls off a good bit above 8K and a dip at 6K.

 

[audiohobbit]

1-2 months max in Smyth Research time, it's rather 4-6 months

Yup, has something to do with Einstein, time dilation, you know, there must be a small black hole somewhere in Northern Ireland...

Remember Miller's Planet in Interstellar...
It's Smyth's planet now...

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Every time someone discusses settings and measurements, I reach for the keyboard to answer, thinking that it's exactly what I've done a few times myself, so I can help. Then I try to organize my thoughts and 'realize' that I've forgotten how to actually do half of it. It's been about a year and I'm already a noob again.

It's one of these things you work hard to master, and once you've gotten it figured out, do it successfully and then stop doing it for a time, you promptly lose competency you acquired.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Yup, has something to do with Einstein, time dilation, you know, there must be a small black hole somewhere in Northern Ireland...

Remember Miller's Planet in Interstellar...
It's Smyth's planet now...

Reminds me of a book by Robert Charles Wilson called Spin.

 

[Fox1977]

Reminds me of a book by Robert Charles Wilson called Spin.

I read a couple of books of Robert Charles Wilson that i enjoyed : "A Bridge of years" and "Last Year". The Spin trilogy is good too ? I guess i have them in my digital library but haven't read them yet...

 

[dsperber]

Thanks so much for all the details.

My root problem was the feed from the receiver was on HDMI2, my preset was on HDMI1 but the Audio Source was set to HDMI2, which worked with BluRay sources, but not the ATV.

I re-wired the feed from the receiver to go to HDMI1, turned off 'Audio Source', and now I get Atmos from the ATV4K from Netflix and Tidal.

Inserting the A16 into a complicated cabling arrangement when there are multiple sources wanting to go to the AVR is a dilemma. From a usability and simplicity point of view, I wanted to try and set things up so that they would easily be remembered, including assigning 9 presets intuitively to the numeric keypad on the A16 remote.

In my setup I have three streaming sources: Roku Ultra 2020, ATV4K, and nVidia Shield 2019. And I also have an Oppo UDP-203 player, which has a Windows Media Center extender (Linksys DMA2100) feeding its external HDMI input. So the 203 can feed either disc-based DVD/BDMV content or HDTV content. Everything has to somehow feed video to my Yamaha RX-A860 AVR, which feeds video to my 65" LG OLED C9. And everything has to somehow feed audio either (a) to the A16 for listening to sound through headphones, or (b) to the AVR for listening to sound through multi-channel mixdown to 2-channel stereo speakers. So that's the cabling challenge.

My A16 has an optical output connection to Audio-GD DAC, which feeds XLR to my Stax SRM-007tII amp / SR-009 headphones.

My cabling solution:

(1) Shield -> A16 HDMI1 input; Roku -> A16 HDMI2 input; ATV4K -> A16 HDMI3 input

(2) Oppo 203 HDMI1 output (video-only) -> AVR HDMI2 input

(3) Oppo 203 HDMI2 output (audio-only) -> A16 HDMI4 input

(4) A16 HDMI output (audio/video pass-through) -> AVR HDMI3 input (for streaming video, and AVR audio mixdown to stereo for streaming sources, for listening through speakers)

(5) Oppo 203 L/R analog preamp outputs (203 mixdown to stereo) -> DBX EQ L/R analog in/out -> AVR L/R analog audio input assigned to HDMI2 video, for speakers

(6) A16 presets 1-3, input from HDMI1 (Shield): 1 = PCM 5.1, 2 = PCM 7.1, 3 = Atmos 9.1.6

(7) A16 presets 4-6, input from HDMI2 (Roku): 4 = PCM 5.1, 5 = PCM 7.1, 6 = Atmos 9.1.6

(8) A16 presets 7-9, input from HDMI3 (ATV4K): 7 = PCM 5.1, 8 = PCM 7.1, 9 = Atmos 9.1.6

(9) To watch/listen to any of the three streaming sources, I set AVR to HDMI3 input (fed from HDMI audio/video pass-through of A16).

(a) For headphone listening via A16 I simply use the proper preset on the A16, and video goes through the A16 to the AVR and on to the TV.

(b) For speaker listening I simply enable 2-channel stereo output from the AVR (via Yamaha "party mode"), with multi-channel audio arriving through A16 via HDMI3 into the AVR where it is mixed down to stereo by the AVR. Unfortunately there is no way to utilized the DBX EQ for tone control.

(10) To watch/listen to HDTV (through the HDMI external input of the 203) or discs played on the 203, I set AVR to HDMI2 input for video (which is fed from HDMI1 video-only output of the 203).

(a) For headphone listening via A16 I temporarily use the appropriate A16 preset 1-3 depending on audio of the content, and manually change the HDMI source input of that particular A16 preset used from HDMI1 to HDMI4 (which is fed from HDMI2 audio-only output of the 203).

(b) For speaker listening again I simply enable 2-channel stereo output from the AVR (via "party mode"), with 2-channel stereo mixdown audio performed by the 203 and arriving from the L/R analog output of the 203 through the DBX EQ (for tone control) and into the AVR L/R analog audio input assigned to HDMI2 video.


This seems like the simplest most direct cabling approach I could imagine, given that I have four A/V sources (five, if you count HDTV coming through the 203 which also can play discs), all of which must provide their video to the C9. And I also want to be able to listen to sound from any source either (a) through headphones via A16, or (b) through stereo speakers via "party mode" of the AVR.

No need for a 4-in-1-out HDMI switch, which I used to use in order to feed multiple sources through the 203's single external HDMI input. Eliminating the HDMI switch (which caused assorted issues) and instead using the A16's four HDMI inputs as if it were a switch, to handle the three A/V streaming inputs and one audio-only input (203) directly has really simplified things as well as eliminated all stability and performance issues related to the presence of the HDMI switch feeding things through the 203.