[sander99]

what is the a16 upgrade?

In short, in relation with a change of boards:
-24 channels possible (over headphones for 1 user)
-eARC

If you buy a new one it will be this new version.
(If you buy a used one it might be the old version).

See:
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...al-3d-audio-headphone-processor/posts/2781725

 

[x7007]

In short, in relation with a change of boards:
-24 channels possible (over headphones for 1 user)
-eARC

If you buy a new one it will be this new version.
(If you buy a used one it might be the old version).

See:
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...al-3d-audio-headphone-processor/posts/2781725

is the upgrade 400$ or something? you sent the it back?

 

[sander99]

is the upgrade 400$ or something? you sent the it back?

There was that possibility, I don't know if it is still possible, or if it will be possible again in the future...
But again: all A16s that are shipped from now on (or were shipped in the last month or so) have the upgrade already.

If sufficient interest exists, we may provide a limited-time return-to-factory upgrade service covering either the HSR41T on its own or the HSR41T/APM110 combination. We do not yet have exact pricing or a schedule for such a service but we believe it would be around US$185+shipping+tax and US$485+shipping+tax respectively. Please email James if you are interested in either (james@smyth-research.com).

 

[johnn29]

Anyone here using some interesting pairings with the A16? Curious to know your thoughts.

Not an A16 user, but Impulcifer. On ear headphones give the best simulation I can get. My Grado GW100's that are open back are amazingly realistic. Compared to my Phliips Fidelio or DT990's - the on ear does sound more realistic.

David Grisinger has some info on this in his presentation. It's to do with the fact that the natural sound stage of larger earcups can't be EQ'd away via headphone compensation.

•Close fitting on-ear headphones and insert phones are potentially smoother in response, and can be stunning when equalized. Open circumaural phones never reach this quality, equalized or not.

But I go mostly go for the cirumaural because it's more comfortable. I'm going to try the Koss Portapros as they seem the most comfortable on ear design you can get.

 

[audiohobbit]

This David Griesinger presentation explains the background of the ManLOUD procedure in the A16 quite good.
Looks like he created a very similar tool as a software on the PC. One basic difference is that you can jump between the 500 Hz base band and the specific band you want to eq back and forth, as far as I understood, whereas in the Realiser you can only play the bands sequentially up and down. However you can do this very fast back and forth and as I noticed the fast moving through the 32 bands helps to find the loudness peaks.

A note on the bass response of headphones:
Afaik the Realiser does nothing below the 500 Hz band, not with auto EQ and not with manLOUD.
The bass response is only dependent on the PRIR (except when you use Direct Bass) and what the headphone itself can deliver.

 

[Sordel]

Most of you will know these problems and most of them are due to fundamental misunderstandings on my part but here is a record of my frustrations with the A16 so far:

1. Resolved. I couldn‘t any other input other than HDMI to work. The problem was that I was skipping the “Reload” step after changing sources (though of course it would have made sense for the A16 to reload automatically without the additional step.)
2. Resolved. I can't get quadrophonic sound out of my Chicago Quadio set. The problem is that it's encoded in DTS, which the A16 doesn't currently decode.
3. Resolved. I couldn't get multichannel sound from my Oppo BR player. It turns out that unless I turn off my receiver the Oppo only outputs (from its second output?) in stereo, which is probably a by-product of using both HDMI outputs from the Oppo simultaneously.
4. Resolved? I couldn't play surround SACDs, except that today I did ... maybe because now I've got a direct connection from the Oppo to the A16 rather than routing through my receiver?
5. Unresolved. My PC only outputs a stereo signal via optical TOSlink. This appears to be a well-known issue with PCs.
6. Unresolved. One pair of headphones stopped tracking today. I think that the problem was that I had moved out of the area that the magnetic tracking recognised, and it just gave up. Very irksome but it appears to have recovered now.

 

[Eich1eeF]

[...]
2. Resolved. I can't get quadrophonic sound out of my Chicago Quadio set. The problem is that it's encoded in DTS, which the A16 doesn't currently decode.

You can if you configure your Oppo to send LPCM over HDMI. That would mean at most 7.1 sound, so no atmos top/ceiling etc. channels. I haven't tried it, but in theory the Oppo should respect the info given via EDID, so that even if "HDMI Bitstream" is configured, but the HDMI sink doesn't support DTS, the Oppo should send LPCM anyway. Your receiver however most likely does announce DTS capability via EDID. There are devices such as the HDFury Vertex that can alter the EDID info.

3. Resolved. I couldn't get multichannel sound from my Oppo BR player. It turns out that unless I turn off my receiver the Oppo only outputs (from its second output?) in stereo, which is probably a by-product of using both HDMI outputs from the Oppo simultaneously.

The Oppo maual doesn't specify, but I assumed that the "Audio Only" HDMI out would always carry the same audio signal as the primary HDMI out, as configured in the player setup (e.g. Bitstream or LPCM), along with a 1080i all black video signal.

4. Resolved? I couldn't play surround SACDs, except that today I did ... maybe because now I've got a direct connection from the Oppo to the A16 rather than routing through my receiver?

I don't think the A16 supports DSD, so a conversion to PCM somewhere is inevitable, the Oppo can handle that for you. How do you connect your A16 to your receiver?

5. Unresolved. My PC only outputs a stereo signal via optical TOSlink. This appears to be a well-known issue with PCs.

I'd say that should work, but I don't know a straightforward recipe. I've only ever tried that with VLC and there are lots of options and settings that all have to be exactly right to get this to work. Not A16 specific, so you'll probably have to find help elsewhere, specific to the player software you intend to use.

6. Unresolved. One pair of headphones stopped tracking today. I think that the problem was that I had moved out of the area that the magnetic tracking recognised, and it just gave up. Very irksome but it appears to have recovered now.

I would have assumed that the magnetic tracking should work everywhere in any orientation. The optical tracking requires line of sight.

 

[dsperber]

Resolved. I couldn't get multichannel sound from my Oppo BR player. It turns out that unless I turn off my receiver the Oppo only outputs (from its second output?) in stereo, which is probably a by-product of using both HDMI outputs from the Oppo simultaneously.

I do NOT use the HDMI pass-through of the A16 when using my Oppo 203. The A16 is simply fed from HDMI2-out (audio-only), and the A16 is powered on when I want to use my headphones.

HDMI1-out of the 203 goes to my AVR, to provide video-only when the A16 is powered on, and then HDMI-out of the AVR goes to the TV. When the A16 is powered off HDMI1-out carries both audio and video to the AVR, so that the speakers (managed by the AVR) are heard.

The 203 is configured Setup Menu -> Audio output setup -> HDMI audio format. For all non-Atmos multi-channel (e.g. 5.1 or 7.1, lossy or lossless, Dolby or DTS) audio (either from a disc played by the Oppo, or from an HDMI external input source feeding the Oppo such as HDTV DVR or Roku etc.) you might as well set HDMI audio format to LPCM. This lets the Oppo perform all audio decoding upstream to the A16 for any audio format (including DTS) and feed 2.0/5.1/7.1 audio as LPCM to the A16 (via HDMI2-out of the Oppo when you have the A16 powered on). This will be handled by the A16 through a "PCM room" and will work perfectly. When the A16 is powered off the decoded multi-channel LPCM audio will be fed along with video through HDMI1-out of the Oppo to your AVR, so that you can listen to multi-channel sound through the multiple speakers managed by the AVR..

For Atmos output from a disc played by the Oppo, reconfigure Audio Output Setup -> HDMI audio format to BITSTREAM. Now the audio output from HDMI2-out of the Oppo will carry the still-decoded Dolby Atmos audio to the A16, where it will be handled by the A16 through an "Atmos room". If the A16 is powered off the Atmos BITSTREAM audio will be sent along with video out of HDMI1-out of the Oppo, to your AVR for decoding there.

Note specifically that Roku (Ultra) streamer does NOT support either Dolby Vision nor Dolby Atmos from its apps. It does support UHD 4K (HDR) but not Dolby Vision. And it only supports multi-channel audio but not Dolby Atmos. I have a Roku Ultra and I feed it as one external HDMI source into an HDMI SWITCH which in turn feeds its HDMI-out to HDMI-in of the Oppo, which in turn feeds 5.1/7.1 audio through HDMI2-out to the A16. I also feed my cable TV DVR as a second external HDMI source into the same HDMI SWITCH, so that conventional Dolby Plus 2.0/5.1 surround sound from HDTV is also fed through the HDMI switch to the Oppo and on to the A16. For listening to both of these external HDMI sources through the Oppo I have HDMI audio format on the Oppo set to LPCM.

Note that HDMI1-out of the Oppo goes to HDMI1-in of my AVR.

In contrast, the Apple TV 4K streamer DOES SUPPORT BOTH Dolby Vision as well as Dolby Atmos from its apps (assuming the apps themselves support these Dolby licensed features, as the Netflix app does on ATV4K). I have tried passing the ATV4K as a third input through the same HDMI switch (already set to accept both Roku and DVR) and then out of the switch and on to the Oppo HDMI-in (and then bitstream audio through HDMI2-out of the Oppo to the A16), but my own experience is that this is very problematic. The HDMI handshakes involved with all of the devices seems to produce either delays, or unreliable results, or the Oppo automatically switching to LPCM (even though I've set it to BITSTREAM), or just general confusion and failure.

So specifically for my ATV4K I feed it directly to HDMI2-in of the A16 (where it is handled as an "Atmos room" in order to decode all bitstream Dolby audio from the ATV4K, both Dolby Atmos as well as non-DA). And I have HDMI-out of the A16 (pass-through) going to a second HDMI2-in on my AVR. This supports ALL AUDIO FORMATS coming from the ATV4K provided as BITSTREAM to the A16, while video (both Dolby Vision as well as non-DV) comes from the ATV4K and passes through the A16 and then on to the AVR to feed the HDTV. Note that I've got the Oppo HDMI2-out feeding HDMI1-in of the A16 (where it is the "end of the line" for audio when using the A16). So any direct or external A/V source coming from the Oppo feeds audio to the A16, and audio/video to the AVR through one of its HDMI inputs. For A/V from the ATV4K audio+video goes to the A16 and then video-only goes through the A16 and on to a second HDMI input of the AVR.

Yes, I do have to switch my AVR to use its second HDMI2-in specifically when watching something from ATV4K as the source (passing through the A16). All Oppo-related source uses HDMI1-in of the AVR. But this approach absolutely provides reliable and consistent results for ATV4K-provided Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmost content. I also happen to prefer the GUI user-interface and physical remote user-friendliness of the Roku, so for all streaming service apps which are present on both Roku and ATV4K I will always use Roku (and by inference, also through the Oppo with video output to the AVR and audio output LPCM to the A16) as long as I'm not losing DV or DA. I only use ATV4K (directly bitstream to the A16 and then HDMI-out of the A16 to a second HDMI input of the AVR) when the source content is DV and/or DA.

 

[GeorgeA]

Even if the information in the above post is not addressed to me directly, I thank @dsperber for sharing it. I have a question, please. When feeding 2.0/5.1/7.1 audio as LPCM to the A16, is it necessary to previously set up separate PCM rooms, one for 2.0, one for 5.1 and one for 7.1?

 

[audiohobbit]

No.
In principle a 7.1 room suffices. When 2.0 PCM is supplied only the front LR speakers play, except you activate the upmixer for PCM.
With a 5.1 signal the Ls and Rs (left and right surround) signals get routed to the Lss and Rss (side surrounds) of the 7.1 room, so the back surrounds Lb and Rb stay silent, unless again you activate the upmixer (or the signal is already upmixed externally, this is what my Pana UHD player does automtically with DTS content when it decodes to PCM it also upmixes 5.1 to 7.1).

Note that in a 7.1 setup the side surrounds are usually at 90 deg so directly to your left and right side, whereas in a true 5.1 configuration the surrounds should be at 120 deg so more behind the listener to get some rear envelopment from just 2 surround channels.

So it is desirable to have a separate PRIR/Room with true Ls and Rs speakers at 120 deg if you don't want to use the upmixer. As far as I noticed the DSU still seems to upmix the surrounds of a 5.1 signal wrong to 7.1: If there is a single signal in the Ls channel for example it gets routed to the Lss, nothing to the Lb. So it comes from the side only when the Lss is at 90 deg. With a 5.1 setup and the Ls at 120 deg the sound will come also a bit from behind.
Only if there are signals common to the Ls and Rs, those common parts are mixed to the Lb and Rb.

I think the Surrey room that comes with the Realiser has dedicated surrounds Ls and Rs at 120(?) deg for a 5.1 setup. Could be 110.
A compromise setup for 7.1 is to have the side surrounds a bit back at 100-110 deg, so that a 5.1 signal without upmixing still produces some rear envelopment.

 

[GeorgeA]

Thanks for clarification.

 

[audiohobbit]

Same is true for Dolby signals: A 9.1.x Atmos room would suffice. WIth a 7.1 signal only the 7.1 speakers will be used unless the upmixer is activated.
For 5.1 see what I wrote for PCM.

I think the 24ch versions/rooms also always(?) contain the 7.1 speakers for a native 7.1 signal (not entirely sure here).

So at least with the 16ch version ideally I would have a 9.1.x Atmos room and a dedicated 5.1 room, that's all. Though the LCR and Sw would be identical, only the surrounds would have a different label and different position.

 

[GeorgeA]

Those angles might be confusing sometimes as there are different recommendations coming from THX, Dolby and ITU.

For my future PRIR measurements, I’ve bought a protractor as seen in the attached photo.

 

[dsperber]

I have a question, please. When feeding 2.0/5.1/7.1 audio as LPCM to the A16, is it necessary to previously set up separate PCM rooms, one for 2.0, one for 5.1 and one for 7.1?

Maybe it could have been done differently, but for me I actually did set up two separate PCM rooms, one for 5.1 and the second for 7.1. Either one can be used for 2.0 because the Lf and Rf speakers were in the same place for both of my AIX PRIR's.

When my AIX PRIR's were created the side speakers were correctly placed in the AIX studio room at +/- 120 for 5.1, and moved to +/- 90 for 7.1 along with the addition of Lb and Rb. Since I actually had personally measured true 5.1 and 7.1 PRIR's I decided to use them to make two individual PCM rooms. And I then constructed my own 9.1.6 Atmos room by merging my AIX 7.1 PRIR with the BBC room for the remaining needed speakers, which has been perfectly sufficient for the time being until someday maybe I will have a real opportunity to get a true 9.1.6 PRIR measured somewhere wonderful. I didn't send in my A16 for hardware upgrade.

And for convenience, I've also built three presets mapped to the numeric 1, 2, 3 keys. 1 is the 5.1 PCM room and 5.1 AIX PRIR (with input coming from the Oppo on HDMI1), 2 is the 7.1 PCM room and 7.1 AIX PRIR (again for HDMI1 input from the Oppo), and 3 is the 9.1.6 Atmos room with the hybrid PRIR (with input set to HDMI2 coming from the ATV4K). I use presets 1 or 2 depending on whether the LPCM source coming from the Oppo is 5.1 or 7.1. And I use 3 for all bitstream source coming from the ATV4K.

 

[GeorgeA]

Thanks again for sharing your findings.

With respect to PRIR measurement for a 2.0 setup, I remember a little vaguely that there was a post from a user, maybe in the thread of Realiser A8, who used his own approach to cut-off the microphone in the left ear before the sound for the right ear was heard and then cut-off the microphone in the right ear before the sound for the left ear was heard. By doing so, he said that his listening to stereo music sounded more enjoyable.

LE: I’ve found that post. It was @Erik Garci that wrote about his Realiser A8, but the method was also posted in this thread at page 8, post#109.