[sander99]

With respect to PRIR measurement for a 2.0 setup, I remember a little vaguely that there was a post from a user, maybe in the thread of Realiser A8, who used his own approach to cut-off the microphone in the left ear before the sound for the right ear was heard and then cut-off the microphone in the right ear before the sound for the left ear was heard. By doing so, he said that his listening to stereo music sounded more enjoyable.

This would result in simulated cross talk free speakers. Please note that this is just some kind of alternative, experimental different approach to listening to stereo recordings, and some people like it specifically for binaural recordings. It is not at all logical or obvious that this would be an objective improvement. Do not think of it as a substitute for listening to a simulated normal pair of loudspeakers. I expect that for most people listening to normal stereo recordings this way would totally kill the out-of-head experience and put the sound back inside the head. (I tried it briefly and that's what it did for me. But I didn't make a special PRIR but did some trick using the user A part to supply the left ear and the user B part to supply the right ear and had no right speaker in the listening room for user A, and no left speaker in the listening room for user B, if I remember correctly. - @phoenixdogfan: I forgot to mention this in my reaction to your post in the Impulcifer thread.)

By the way: "cut-off the microphone" can be interpreted in a dangerous way , better say unplug!

 

[VandyMan]

So specifically for my ATV4K I feed it directly to HDMI2-in of the A16 (where it is handled as an "Atmos room" in order to decode all bitstream Dolby audio from the ATV4K, both Dolby Atmos as well as non-DA).

Are you using an upgraded A-16? (Should we just call an upgraded A-16 an A-24?) I can't get Atmos to work from my ATV4K since upgrading. The 1.98 firmware release notes mention an issue, but does not say what apps are impacted, but none of the ones I've tested work.

 

[CaptainFunk]

Are you using an upgraded A-16? (Should we just call an upgraded A-16 an A-24?) I can't get Atmos to work from my ATV4K since upgrading. The 1.98 firmware release notes mention an issue, but does not say what apps are impacted, but none of the ones I've tested work.

I have the same issue with my upgraded A16. James confirmed this to be a bug so hopefully they fix it soon.

 

[dsperber]

Are you using an upgraded A-16?

No. I'm using an "original" A16, still with firmware 1.81.

(Should we just call an upgraded A-16 an A-24?)

Good idea, but may be likely to cause confusion. Perhaps A16.2 would also work to designate a hardware upgraded version? Perhaps A16.0 to clearly distiniguish an original unmodified version?

I agree that some generally agreed upon clean shorthand way of easily distinguishing when writing which model we have without using lots of words or having to answer later questions to clarify is a good idea. Again, I'm using an A16.0 still running with 1.81 firmware.

I can't get Atmos to work from my ATV4K since upgrading. The 1.98 firmware release notes mention an issue, but does not say what apps are impacted, but none of the ones I've tested work.

I just this past weekend finally got to watch "Hamilton" available on Disney+ (before canceling the special $7 Disney+ bundle from my ad-free Hulu subscription that I'd added last month for just one month, specifically for just this one film). It was a stunning Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos version filmed live onstage back in 2016 at the Richard Rogers Theater on Broadway, with the original cast. This was Disney's blockbuster killer highlight cagily timed and offered to induce new subscriptions for their rollout of the Disney+ service to months ago. I'm sure many millions of others did just what I did, namely give Disney $7 (for at least one month) to see just this particular film and sign up for as little as just one month and then immediately canceling.

Anyway, the sound was fabulous. And I couldn't resist going to Audio Meter display on the A16, to double-check to see just how many of the 16 channels (on my 9.1.6 Atmos room) were actually being driven directly from my ATV4K coming through A16 HDMI2 from Disney+. And it turns out ALL 16 CHANNELS were bouncing wonderfullty, much to my glee and satisfaction. Certainly sounded like it to my brain.

I did a similar thing earlier this year when I first bought my ATV4K and used "The Irishman" via Netflix to confirm, through Audio Meter, that I was truly hearing lots of channels through my two ears as my brain told me I was.

 

[VandyMan]

I have the same issue with my upgraded A16. James confirmed this to be a bug so hopefully they fix it soon.

Thanks. I'm glad to hear it is not just me/my setup.

Anyway, the sound was fabulous. And I couldn't resist going to Audio Meter display on the A16, to double-check to see just how many of the 16 channels (on my 9.1.6 Atmos room) were actually being driven directly from my ATV4K coming through A16 HDMI2 from Disney+. And it turns out ALL 16 CHANNELS were bouncing wonderfullty, much to my glee and satisfaction. Certainly sounded like it to my brain.

My experience has been that Atmos sounds better than multi-channel PCM on the A-16.

 

[VandyMan]

A question I've been thinking about with Atmos/object-based audio... Rather than measure it a real-world room, would it make more sense for Smyth to mathematically generate a PRIR with virtual speakers whose exact position and frequency range match the Atmos spec? Also, is the best solution to map an audio-object to simulated speakers at a fixed location, as the A-16 does, or would it be better to instead map the simulated speaker's location to the audio-object's location? (I don't know if the A-16 has the horsepower to actually do this in real-time, of course.)

 

[dsperber]

My experience has been that Atmos sounds better than multi-channel PCM on the A-16.

Are you comparing apples to apples?

The multi-channel LPCM audio (say, coming from an Oppo) is all for ear-level 2.0 or 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setups arrayed around your virtual seating location in the listening environment. If you add two more side speakers and six overhead speakers, wouldn't that naturally provide a clearly more 3D-like sound illusion with sound coming from a space that also has height rather than just coming from around you? Seems that's to be expected as you facilitate many more precisely located sound sources within a "volume".

In other words I can't see how it couldn't "sound much better" (i.e. more enjoyable) with 15 precise sources of sound including 6 overhead, vs. say 7 distinct sources of sound all on the same level as your ears.

What I find more surprising and unexpected is the difference in "enjoyment level" when playing basic simple 2.0 channel audio CD music through SVS and a PRIR, as opposed to listening to that same 2.0 audio CD via "pure headphone" non-SVS using the very same headphone/amp/DAC. This is especially apparent when the source content is low-level, like vocals and/or piano or classical acoustic guitar or small musical groups with a handful of instruments where the audio engineering has located them at easily distinguishable left-to-right locations. It's really stunning how the out-of-head sensation of the overall sound field actually room-like, and coming from the two speakers "in front of you" using SVS is so very different from the pure inside-the-head (or just barely outside the head) sensation from non-SVS.

 

[sander99]

Rather than measure it a real-world room, would it make more sense for Smyth to mathematically generate a PRIR with virtual speakers whose exact position and frequency range match the Atmos spec?

To do that properly personalised for you they would need to know your full hrtf. (For example from Genelec based on a video of your head.)
But if they would make a generic version it could be "merged" with a low quality PRIR, similar to merging a high quality BRIR with a low quality PRIR. But then you still would have to measure a low quality PRIR with all required angles.

Also, is the best solution to map an audio-object to simulated speakers at a fixed location, as the A-16 does, or would it be better to instead map the simulated speaker's location to the audio-object's location?

The latter would probably be best, but... it would require a completely different approach. The Atmos decoding to fixed speaker locations is now a completely seperate process done by a (off-the-shelve I think) decoding board, instead of channels it would have to pass on audio objects to the virtual speaker rendering part. Probably Smyth would have to develop this themselves, very unlikely to happen. The maximum number of speakers to render would be the number of channels in the "channel-based bed" plus the maximum number of objects. Practically the full hrtf of the user would have to be known to be able to render speakers - including reflexions/reverberations - at all possible locations. I don't think it is possible with the A16 hardware as it is, and the required changes in software are massive.

 

[Eich1eeF]

A question I've been thinking about with Atmos/object-based audio... Rather than measure it a real-world room, would it make more sense for Smyth to mathematically generate a PRIR with virtual speakers whose exact position and frequency range match the Atmos spec? Also, is the best solution to map an audio-object to simulated speakers at a fixed location, as the A-16 does, or would it be better to instead map the simulated speaker's location to the audio-object's location? (I don't know if the A-16 has the horsepower to actually do this in real-time, of course.)

The trick of the realizer is that it measures the room and the HRTF in one single measurement and it's pretty much impossible to separate the components contributed by the room from those contributed by your pinnae/head/torso. To get the "full" HRTF for arbitrary sound fields, you'd need to have yours measured with a setup like https://codeandsound.wordpress.com/...naural-sound-head-related-transfer-functions/ or https://www.akustik.rwth-aachen.de/go/id/ealf/lidx/1

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Well this takes the cake. My A16 is being held in customs by DHL. It was scheduled to be delivered today. They sent me a text on Friday with a site to go to. The site was just the standard tracking site and it told me the shipment was held in customs awaiting further information. Nothing further. Nothing regarding what the information was or how I was to go about supplying it. And no phone number to call.

Naturally, no one was working on Friday past 5pm or Saturday, Sunday. I was put on hold on Monday for 58 minutes, so I gave up, tried again on Tuesday, same BS. Finally got through this morning and was told by the DHL rep he had no clue, but was opening a ticket and that someone would call or E mail me within four hours.

When I got the email, I learned that not only did they want my SS number, but that I had to fill out a Power of Attorney form. I downloaded the form and found out, it does not accept digtital input, so I am going to have to print it (I have no printer), fill it out and sign it,scan it along with the front and back of my social security card, and upload the scan to them for them to obtain customs release and to not send the thing back to Smyth.

So I am super pissed. Thing is, I never had to do any of this first time through. Has anyone had similar issues with DHL on US deliveries?

Does anyone know if a UPS store would print a pdf file hard copy off a SD card? And would it then provide me with a way to scan the completed form along with my SS card back to the SD card? Alternatively, I would have to buy a printer/scanner from Walmart, and since I never use it, I'd be blowing $100-200 for just this purpose. Talk about a PIA!

 

[VandyMan]

Are you comparing apples to apples?

No I'm not. That is a fair criticism. I have observed that when I get the most realistic out-of-head effect from the A-16 it is with Atmos content, but I have not directly compared the same movie in Atmos and PCM. Perhaps Atmos content just tends to be better mixed.

 

[GeorgeA]

..... Alternatively, I would have to buy a printer/scanner from Walmart, and since I never use it, I'd be blowing $100-200 for just this purpose. Talk about a PIA!

Don't you have a friend, relative or acquaintance who works in an office? It might help you with printing and scanning of the required documents. Where I live memory sticks are more popular than SD cards for storing or conveying files when there’s no online option.

DHL is such a pain when it comes to import duties. They might ask you to agree they use their money for paying your duties and then charge you an additional fee for that service.

 

[VandyMan]

The trick of the realizer is that it measures the room and the HRTF in one single measurement and it's pretty much impossible to separate the components contributed by the room from those contributed by your pinnae/head/torso. To get the "full" HRTF for arbitrary sound fields, you'd need to have yours measured with a setup like https://codeandsound.wordpress.com/...naural-sound-head-related-transfer-functions/ or https://www.akustik.rwth-aachen.de/go/id/ealf/lidx/1

Smyth claims to be able to make PRIRs transferable between users on the Realiser Exchange, so I think they have a way to de-personalize a measurement. The BBC Room works pretty well for me and it is of course not personalized.

 

[VandyMan]

.

 

[Got the Shakes]

Well this takes the cake. My A16 is being held in customs by DHL. It was scheduled to be delivered today. They sent me a text on Friday with a site to go to. The site was just the standard tracking site and it told me the shipment was held in customs awaiting further information. Nothing further. Nothing regarding what the information was or how I was to go about supplying it. And no phone number to call.

Naturally, no one was working on Friday past 5pm or Saturday, Sunday. I was put on hold on Monday for 58 minutes, so I gave up, tried again on Tuesday, same BS. Finally got through this morning and was told by the DHL rep he had no clue, but was opening a ticket and that someone would call or E mail me within four hours.

When I got the email, I learned that not only did they want my SS number, but that I had to fill out a Power of Attorney form. I downloaded the form and found out, it does not accept digtital input, so I am going to have to print it (I have no printer), fill it out and sign it,scan it along with the front and back of my social security card, and upload the scan to them for them to obtain customs release and to not send the thing back to Smyth.

So I am super pissed. Thing is, I never had to do any of this first time through. Has anyone had similar issues with DHL on US deliveries?

Does anyone know if a UPS store would print a pdf file hard copy off a SD card? And would it then provide me with a way to scan the completed form along with my SS card back to the SD card? Alternatively, I would have to buy a printer/scanner from Walmart, and since I never use it, I'd be blowing $100-200 for just this purpose. Talk about a PIA!

This is a thing with UPS too. They ask for a SS number when dealing with customs. They also make you sign power of attorney for outgoing customs, but I don’t you have to for incoming.

Do you have a FexEx Kinkos close? I know for sure that they would have printing and scanning. UPS would print, not sure about scanning though. You could scan to PDF with your smartphone regardless of whether you’re on iOS or Android. There should be a good amount of apps for that.