[dsperber]

My HT unit. Is acting strange.
When useing it. The sound is not properly placed. I,e more sound in left ear...
Did full reset of a16. Updated new firmware. Still same problem. Any ideas?
Just notice, when in test mode. Press up on d pad. You get alot of info..
HT mode. Optical is in red.
Is this normal ?

Having very recently had to deal with my own HT/ST due to swapping out my old Panny 65VT50 for a new 65" LG OLED C9, as well as upgrading to the latest 1.80 firmware (haven't applied the minor 1.81 fixes yet as it doesn't affect me), I can report that my own situation is A-OK. The Panny TV was much "thicker" at the top edge of the panel so that I could stick the ST unit on top of it using 2-sided tape. No problem affixing the ST here and I could also run the ST cable off the back of the TV and over to the A16 ST-input. And I was using "optical stabilization" for the HT in the settings on the A16. But the new LG OLED TV is only 1/10" thick and it's essentially impossible to securely attach the ST to it. That's when I finally read the manual and decided to use "magnetic stabilization" for the HT all by itself, since it does not use the ST which for me was no longer an option.

But to be honest I had never actually previously read Appendix C and Appendix D in the .091 manual, simply assuming the A16 HT/ST worked exactly the same as they did with the A8. Not true. Actually it probably IS true now with the 1.80/1.20 firmware updates that adds "A8 optical" as another [legacy A8 behavior] option to HT/ST behavior, but that mode certainly wasn't available until just recently.

Also, I previously had not performed the required HT magnetic and temperature calibrations described in Appendix C and D of the .091 manual, not even knowing this was required. It wasn't unitl the thermal calibration process was described again in the Release notes provided with the 1.80 A16 firmware update which also included the 1.20 HT firmware update), that I took the whole firmware update situation as an opportunity to do everything that I had subsequently learned was actually required.

And in particular, I learned that once both the required HT magnetic and thermal calibrations are completed:

Step 6. Ensure that Stabilisation is set to magnetics in the HT Settings menu.
Home page menu: Settings menu: System menu: HT Settings menu: Stabilisation option

Step 7. Finally, wearing the headphones, navigate to the Azimuth angles display of any Preset Speaker Map, look directly
at the centre speaker, and push the button on top of the head-top to set zero degrees for the magnetic sensor.
With stabilisation set to magnetic, pushing the button on the head-top will re-set the zero degrees point of the magnetic
sensor.

That phrase "look directly at the centre speaker and push the button on top of the HT to set zero degrees for the magnetic sensor" actually means to get yourself positioned properly in your TV-watching seating location and look at the TV panel, and then press the button on top of the HT. This functionally resets things to "+0 azimuth", i.e. as if you were physically looking straight ahead from the original sweet spot of the PRIR listening environment perfectly centered between L and R front speakers, So no matter where you're now actually sitting and facing relative to your TV screen (even if off-angle and not actually perpendicular to the TV face), it will SOUND in your ears as if you're looking seated and centered to the TV (which is like your CENTER speaker in its location) , looking straight ahead perpendicular to the front face of the TV. And of course if that's actually where you're now seated, the sound should appear perfectly balanced L/R in both ears which makes perfect sense.

In other words after the HT is correctly magnetically and thermally calibrated as the .091 manual describes, from that point on in normal usage (assuming you specify "magnetic stabilization") you simply need to push the button on top of the HT when you sit down and begin to watch TV with your headphones on. No matter where you're sitting, perpendicular to the TV or off-angle, centered to the TV or off-center, no matter what... pushing the button on top of the HT returns you AUDIBLY to have you now "virtually" sitting perpendicular to the TV which really means front and center in front of your CENTER speaker. And you are "virtually" placed equally between L and R speakers and looking straight ahead.

So sound should now be perfectly balanced in your left and right ears after pushing the button on top of the HT... assuming you've done the calibrations, and are using "magnetic stabilization".

 

[PROTIEUS]

Having very recently had to deal with my own HT/ST due to swapping out my old Panny 65VT50 for a new 65" LG OLED C9, as well as upgrading to the latest 1.80 firmware (haven't applied the minor 1.81 fixes yet as it doesn't affect me), I can report that my own situation is A-OK. The Panny TV was much "thicker" at the top edge of the panel so that I could stick the ST unit on top of it using 2-sided tape. No problem affixing the ST here and I could also run the ST cable off the back of the TV and over to the A16 ST-input. And I was using "optical stabilization" for the HT in the settings on the A16. But the new LG OLED TV is only 1/10" thick and it's essentially impossible to securely attach the ST to it. That's when I finally read the manual and decided to use "magnetic stabilization" for the HT all by itself, since it does not use the ST which for me was no longer an option.

But to be honest I had never actually previously read Appendix C and Appendix D in the .091 manual, simply assuming the A16 HT/ST worked exactly the same as they did with the A8. Not true. Actually it probably IS true now with the 1.80/1.20 firmware updates that adds "A8 optical" as another [legacy A8 behavior] option to HT/ST behavior, but that mode certainly wasn't available until just recently.

Also, I previously had not performed the required HT magnetic and temperature calibrations described in Appendix C and D of the .091 manual, not even knowing this was required. It wasn't unitl the thermal calibration process was described again in the Release notes provided with the 1.80 A16 firmware update which also included the 1.20 HT firmware update), that I took the whole firmware update situation as an opportunity to do everything that I had subsequently learned was actually required.

And in particular, I learned that once both the required HT magnetic and thermal calibrations are completed:

Step 6. Ensure that Stabilisation is set to magnetics in the HT Settings menu.
Home page menu: Settings menu: System menu: HT Settings menu: Stabilisation option

Step 7. Finally, wearing the headphones, navigate to the Azimuth angles display of any Preset Speaker Map, look directly
at the centre speaker, and push the button on top of the head-top to set zero degrees for the magnetic sensor.
With stabilisation set to magnetic, pushing the button on the head-top will re-set the zero degrees point of the magnetic
sensor.

That phrase "look directly at the centre speaker and push the button on top of the HT to set zero degrees for the magnetic sensor" actually means to get yourself positioned properly in your TV-watching seating location and look at the TV panel, and then press the button on top of the HT. This functionally resets things to "+0 azimuth", i.e. as if you were physically looking straight ahead from the original sweet spot of the PRIR listening environment perfectly centered between L and R front speakers, So no matter where you're now actually sitting and facing relative to your TV screen (even if off-angle and not actually perpendicular to the TV face), it will SOUND in your ears as if you're looking seated and centered to the TV (which is like your CENTER speaker in its location) , looking straight ahead perpendicular to the front face of the TV. And of course if that's actually where you're now seated, the sound should appear perfectly balanced L/R in both ears which makes perfect sense.

In other words after the HT is correctly magnetically and thermally calibrated as the .091 manual describes, from that point on in normal usage (assuming you specify "magnetic stabilization") you simply need to push the button on top of the HT when you sit down and begin to watch TV with your headphones on. No matter where you're sitting, perpendicular to the TV or off-angle, centered to the TV or off-center, no matter what... pushing the button on top of the HT returns you AUDIBLY to have you now "virtually" sitting perpendicular to the TV which really means front and center in front of your CENTER speaker. And you are "virtually" placed equally between L and R speakers and looking straight ahead.

So sound should now be perfectly balanced in your left and right ears after pushing the button on top of the HT... assuming you've done the calibrations, and are using "magnetic stabilization".

Thanks for the long interesting reply.
Will have a read about the thermals.
And will play around with your advice.
Thank you
Regards dan

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Having very recently had to deal with my own HT/ST due to swapping out my old Panny 65VT50 for a new 65" LG OLED C9, as well as upgrading to the latest 1.80 firmware (haven't applied the minor 1.81 fixes yet as it doesn't affect me), I can report that my own situation is A-OK. The Panny TV was much "thicker" at the top edge of the panel so that I could stick the ST unit on top of it using 2-sided tape. No problem affixing the ST here and I could also run the ST cable off the back of the TV and over to the A16 ST-input. And I was using "optical stabilization" for the HT in the settings on the A16. But the new LG OLED TV is only 1/10" thick and it's essentially impossible to securely attach the ST to it. That's when I finally read the manual and decided to use "magnetic stabilization" for the HT all by itself, since it does not use the ST which for me was no longer an option.

But to be honest I had never actually previously read Appendix C and Appendix D in the .091 manual, simply assuming the A16 HT/ST worked exactly the same as they did with the A8. Not true. Actually it probably IS true now with the 1.80/1.20 firmware updates that adds "A8 optical" as another [legacy A8 behavior] option to HT/ST behavior, but that mode certainly wasn't available until just recently.

Also, I previously had not performed the required HT magnetic and temperature calibrations described in Appendix C and D of the .091 manual, not even knowing this was required. It wasn't unitl the thermal calibration process was described again in the Release notes provided with the 1.80 A16 firmware update which also included the 1.20 HT firmware update), that I took the whole firmware update situation as an opportunity to do everything that I had subsequently learned was actually required.

And in particular, I learned that once both the required HT magnetic and thermal calibrations are completed:

Step 6. Ensure that Stabilisation is set to magnetics in the HT Settings menu.
Home page menu: Settings menu: System menu: HT Settings menu: Stabilisation option

Step 7. Finally, wearing the headphones, navigate to the Azimuth angles display of any Preset Speaker Map, look directly
at the centre speaker, and push the button on top of the head-top to set zero degrees for the magnetic sensor.
With stabilisation set to magnetic, pushing the button on the head-top will re-set the zero degrees point of the magnetic
sensor.

That phrase "look directly at the centre speaker and push the button on top of the HT to set zero degrees for the magnetic sensor" actually means to get yourself positioned properly in your TV-watching seating location and look at the TV panel, and then press the button on top of the HT. This functionally resets things to "+0 azimuth", i.e. as if you were physically looking straight ahead from the original sweet spot of the PRIR listening environment perfectly centered between L and R front speakers, So no matter where you're now actually sitting and facing relative to your TV screen (even if off-angle and not actually perpendicular to the TV face), it will SOUND in your ears as if you're looking seated and centered to the TV (which is like your CENTER speaker in its location) , looking straight ahead perpendicular to the front face of the TV. And of course if that's actually where you're now seated, the sound should appear perfectly balanced L/R in both ears which makes perfect sense.

In other words after the HT is correctly magnetically and thermally calibrated as the .091 manual describes, from that point on in normal usage (assuming you specify "magnetic stabilization") you simply need to push the button on top of the HT when you sit down and begin to watch TV with your headphones on. No matter where you're sitting, perpendicular to the TV or off-angle, centered to the TV or off-center, no matter what... pushing the button on top of the HT returns you AUDIBLY to have you now "virtually" sitting perpendicular to the TV which really means front and center in front of your CENTER speaker. And you are "virtually" placed equally between L and R speakers and looking straight ahead.

So sound should now be perfectly balanced in your left and right ears after pushing the button on top of the HT... assuming you've done the calibrations, and are using "magnetic stabilization".

Exactly how I've envisioned headtracking should work: You look straight ahead and set your center point, and calibrate your phones and H.T to it before each use, rather than have some "lighthouse" on top of your tv serve as your center reference. Also probably more accurate b/c the "lighthouse" will be a couple of feet above your ears, and will unnaturally shift the soundstage upwards accordingly.

 

[dsperber]

Exactly how I've envisioned headtracking should work: You look straight ahead and set your center point, and calibrate your phones and H.T to it before each use, rather than have some "lighthouse" on top of your tv serve as your center reference.

Correct. Except that you only need to actually "calibrate" the HT but one time, and then it's done. From then on all you ever have to do is push the button on top of the HT when you sit down to begin a viewing/listening session. That initializes the CENTER/L/R to +0 corresponding to whatever direction you are looking in at the moment you push the button.

And apparently the "drift reduction" changes which were made with the 1.20 HT firmware must be working. Their release notes said they believed that they'd resolved what had previously required occasional repeats of the actual calibration process, perhaps eliminating it entirely. I can say that over the past few days (following my actual magnetic/thermal calibration performed for the very first and only time following the latest firmware upgrade) that things are seemingly working perfectly, as described.

I power the A16 on, the green LED blinks 10 times (indicating calibration was successful, and presumably still just fine), the LED goes through some additional color transitions and eventually settles on green. If not, I rotate the headstand (i.e. my Stax wooden heaphone stand) 90 degrees or whatever is needed to "face the TV straight ahead direction", i.e. to physically aim it to where it last was pointed at +0. The LED eventually turns solid green.

Eventually I assume my viewing/listening position and put the headphones on, facing the TV and getting comfortable. I then push the button on top of the HT, to absolutely reset azimuth to +0 for where I'm sitting at that instant and begin my likely many hours of usage. I will occasionally turn my head one way or the other for various reasons, and the sound field will de-rotate as expected. Coming back to looking straight ahead again the sound field once again centers itself horizontally. (I don't think look up/down affects sound vertically yet)

And, if my particular seat location this session is off-center from the middle of the TV (like on the left/right end of a couch facing the TV), so that I'm looking at the TV screen "at a non-zero visible angle", pushing the button on the HT will still reset the +0 audio azimuth so that your ears are hearing the sound delivered "centered" at a "zero audible angle" and with equal loudness to both ears at that viewing angle, even though your head is looking at the TV screen at an angle.

I haven't experienced this so I don't know what the effect on perception is when your eyes are looking right or left from where your ears are telling you the sound is coming from. In other words, when viewing off-center like this with your head turned right or left to view the TV screen, do you think it would be better if the sound were to be correspondingly louder through the right ear or left ear which would correspond perceptually to rotating your head from the central source of sound when you are in a central seating location perpendicular to the TV and turn your head? Or would you prefer to have volume in both ears corresponding to where the central souce of image is located as if the TV screen were rotated to be perpendicular to your line-of-sight from your actual off-angle non-centered seating/viewing location? Interesting question. Best to just sit by yourself directly opposite the center of the TV and looking straight ahead when you push the button!!

All seems to work perfectly using "magnetic stabilization" and no ST any longer, and pushing the HT button to begin each session to mark "straight ahead", for at least for the past few days.

 

[PROTIEUS]

(As always: I dont have my A16 yet so no experience with this, just trying to point you in the right direction hoping it helps you.)
You did follow the instructions in the parts:
'Updating the Head Tracker firmware' and 'Re-calibrating the Head tracker'
(in Firmware-rev-1.80-Dec-12-2019-update-instructions.pdf)?

Yeah done all that. Now no green light on top. Of headset unit now.. might just not bother with it. Who wonts a light house. Above or below tv anyway.

 

[sander99]

Also probably more accurate b/c the "lighthouse" will be a couple of feet above your ears, and will unnaturally shift the soundstage upwards accordingly.

That won't be the problem, that can easily be compensated for. (And the lights can be switched off). But I agree: if we can do without the set top that's great.

 

[PROTIEUS]

Well. Ran update 1.81. Total reset on unit head track ect. Did all calibrations uptoo manloud.on dolby atmos test. Amaze. Still get floating front L R SPEAKER. And sound is just 3 inch around head... defo need to go studio.
To get my personal file sorted... or buy 1 speaker go from there.
Not amazing out of box experience. The A16
Alot of sounds still in head..

Will create alot of profiles. Over the weeks. And hopefully go to Ireland or a studio. To get most out of the A16 but be8ng disabled going to be a big problem for me.

So only 3 inch sound for me lol
Is this the max everyone will get. With out of box setup manloud only.

Ps still no light on top of headset.

 

[Richter Di]

So only 3 inch sound for me lol
Is this the max everyone will get. With out of box setup manloud only.

If this is a question, no, I already had a great experience for films with the manLoud, and also had my daughter.
But for listening for music I needed my own PRIR and that works very convincingly, even without the headtracker.

 

[PROTIEUS]

If this is a question, no, I already had a great experience for films with the manLoud, and also had my daughter.
But for listening for music I needed my own PRIR and that works very convincingly, even without the headtracker.

Problem with my unit. Or my ears lol.
Im testing all dolby games atm.
Its like main speakers all on ceiling.
Preaty gutted tell you truth.
Dont know what to say or test now.

 

[audiohobbit]

Also probably more accurate b/c the "lighthouse" will be a couple of feet above your ears, and will unnaturally shift the soundstage upwards accordingly.

No that's not how it works. It's the relative angle not the relative position between headtop and settop that is relevant. If the headtop is even a foot or two above your head there's no shifting of Soundstage upwards.
Soundstage only shift upwards if you lean back in your chair. This does not have to do with headtracking, this would even happen w.o. headtracker.
With no vertical measurements and no vertical headtracking working, Soundstage is vertically fixed relative to your head.

If vertical headtracking will be working and the PRIR you use has vertical measurements then again the relative vertical angle between headtop and settop is relevant. As long as both stay perpendicular to each other, vertical angle will be 0.

 

[audiohobbit]

Addendum:
Optical stabilisation with the head top is the most accurate, therefore recommended for PRIR measurements.

As I already saidy experiences with magnetic stabilisation were not very satisfying so far.

 

[sander99]

So only 3 inch sound for me lol
Is this the max everyone will get. With out of box setup manloud only.

Without personal PRIR measurement the results will be different for different people. I am convinced even the MANloud can not fix that for eveyone. And in your case there also are some other issues as I understand it:

Its like main speakers all on ceiling.

I remember you wrote that you "live" in bed? (Because you are disabled as I understand now?)
And you want to use the A16 while lying in bed mostly or always?
If you are lying in bed with your head not-vertical, looking upward it would be logical that with a normal PRIR, and without vertical head tracking, the main front speakers would appear to be on the ceiling.
Especially as long as we don't have vertical head tracking I think the best for you would be to use a PRIR that you measured while lying in bed, with your head in the same position as when watching TV.
And one question is: where would you like the sound of your speakers to come from? You have the TV high on a wall. I think you would want your front L, C, R speakers to sound at the same height as your TV, or just below that. So measure them in those positions.

 

[You Gene]

I tried to do an update for the 1st time starting from my existing 1.76 firmware to do a 1.80 firmware.

Everything went smoothly until I had to press twice the "enter" key to start the firmware update. I pushed instead twice the Power ON/OFF key by mistake...I backpedalled by pressing twice the "enter" key but nothing changed and the power indicator LED stopped blinking and remained green without blinking anymore. I waited 30 minutes just in case an update would start : nothing but the usual black screen with the red border mentioning "Realiser A16 firmware update manager". No key worked : power on/off, C, etc. I had to pull the wall plug to turn it off.

I restarted the process and duly typed twice "enter" this time but what showed next was another screen :
Firmware installation failed
uSD firmware file invalid
Place valid firmware file on uSD
Then proceed.

I pushed the cancel key to stop the firmware process and turned the A16 off. Thinking it might have been the SD card, I formatted the SD again to empty it and downloaded again the 1.80 firmware from the Smyth site. No luck, same message.

Two hours later, I tried it again with the same above-mentioned message showing on the screen.

I checked my Updates/About in the Menu/System and my firmware shows as usual the 1.76 firmware.

I cannot complain, I made a mistake...any ideas?

 

[PROTIEUS]

Without personal PRIR measurement the results will be different for different people. I am convinced even the MANloud can not fix that for eveyone. And in your case there also are some other issues as I understand it:

I remember you wrote that you "live" in bed? (Because you are disabled as I understand now?)
And you want to use the A16 while lying in bed mostly or always?
If you are lying in bed with your head not-vertical, looking upward it would be logical that with a normal PRIR, and without vertical head tracking, the main front speakers would appear to be on the ceiling.
Especially as long as we don't have vertical head tracking I think the best for you would be to use a PRIR that you measured while lying in bed, with your head in the same position as when watching TV.
And one question is: where would you like the sound of your speakers to come from? You have the TV high on a wall. I think you would want your front L, C, R speakers to sound at the same height as your TV, or just below that. So measure them in those positions.

Without personal PRIR measurement the results will be different for different people. I am convinced even the MANloud can not fix that for eveyone. And in your case there also are some other issues as I understand it:

I remember you wrote that you "live" in bed? (Because you are disabled as I understand now?)
And you want to use the A16 while lying in bed mostly or always?
If you are lying in bed with your head not-vertical, looking upward it would be logical that with a normal PRIR, and without vertical head tracking, the main front speakers would appear to be on the ceiling.
Especially as long as we don't have vertical head tracking I think the best for you would be to use a PRIR that you measured while lying in bed, with your head in the same position as when watching TV.
And one question is: where would you like the sound of your speakers to come from? You have the TV high on a wall. I think you would want your front L, C, R speakers to sound at the same height as your TV, or just below that. So measure them in those positions.

Thank you very much i recline in bed but head is.vertical. maybe slight back.
Would love the sound to come from center of the tv. C and sound 3 ft each side L R. Then 3 others. C.L.R. 8 ft away..
Can i do that with just a16. . Do i need to buy speaker. Question now what speaker. Do i need an amp. Has well....

This unit been my dream. For 17 years
Just wont it to blow my mind.
Not just out of head experience.

Thank you.


Will get some with me to remeasure .
While im in the position.

 

[sander99]

@You Gene:
Maybe a stupid question, but just to be sure:
You did unzip the actual firmware file first, so you put FIRMA001.SVS on the sd card, and not FIRMA001.zip?

And your A16 still funtions now, the 1.76 firmware still ok?