[krismusic]

FWIW, I have backed the A16 mainly for listening to music. I'm not that fussed about movies but that may change.
I paid £1040 and if I get anything like the jaw dropping performance that I heard at the demo I will consider it an absolute audio bargain. Can't wait.

 

[Kelvin Lee]

i hope they join camjam sg next year.

 

[Sordel]

FWIW, I have backed the A16 mainly for listening to music. I'm not that fussed about movies but that may change.

I paid £1040 and if I get anything like the jaw dropping performance that I heard at the demo I will consider it an absolute audio bargain. Can't wait.

 
When I joined the Kickstarter the A16 seemed like a super-extravagant purchase, but since then I've come to see it as almost cheap.
 
For a start, once the money has gone from your account, you worry about it less.

 
Secondly, my Pioneer AV amp died a couple of weeks ago and I am now without a surround system: anything I bought between now and next summer would cost at least as much as the A16 and probably much more but it would again be a system where you are limited in the volume you can listen at night (due to neighbours) and where you are disadvantaged if not sitting in the tiny hotspot. The A16 seems to offer better for less.
 
The A16 also seems to leverage other purchases well, providing more opportunities to listen to pretty much everything else in the audio chain.
 
Looking at the teething troubles with (visual) VR and all the question marks that still hang over it, I feel fairly confident that the audio version is a safer bet right now. Roll on Summer 2017!

 

[travis-bickle]

   
When I joined the Kickstarter the A16 seemed like a super-extravagant purchase, but since then I've come to see it as almost cheap.
 
For a start, once the money has gone from your account, you worry about it less.

 
Secondly, my Pioneer AV amp died a couple of weeks ago and I am now without a surround system: anything I bought between now and next summer would cost at least as much as the A16 and probably much more but it would again be a system where you are limited in the volume you can listen at night (due to neighbours) and where you are disadvantaged if not sitting in the tiny hotspot. The A16 seems to offer better for less.
 
The A16 also seems to leverage other purchases well, providing more opportunities to listen to pretty much everything else in the audio chain.
 
Looking at the teething troubles with (visual) VR and all the question marks that still hang over it, I feel fairly confident that the audio version is a safer bet right now. Roll on Summer 2017!

I can totaly understand that. I consider the purchase of the A8 back in 2010 one of the best deals I've made. And we are talking of almost doubling the $$ comparing to the A16. With the addition of a Subpac M2 I get the home theater sound I dreamed of since childhood when demoing the first high end multichannel loudspeaker setup. And the best about it is, that I am completely unbound to volume and time.
So congratulations to your purchase. I think you will have a blast
But regarding your VR statement I have to disagree. The only serious complain you can have with the VIVE is that there are very few titles with a large scope of playtime. But there is a large variety of small experiences and games, which gave me more fun than most of the 2d games I've played the last couple of years. Sure for pure movie-watching the resolution isn't there. But as soon as you're interacting and get lost in the experience, there's a big chance you get the feeling of presence or in other words of beeing transported. So if you have the possibilty of demoing a large roomscale setup, I can only give you the advice of taking the chance

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I'm using OOYH for both two channel and for multi channel movie soundtracks.  Don't discount what a system like the Realizer A16 or OOYH can bring to the party for home theatre.  With OOYH, really good headphones (in my case LCD X's) and a subpac s2, you have something that sounds like a very, very expensive home theatre rig, and you have it with a minimal footprint, and an affordable cost.

 

[Sordel]

But regarding your VR statement I have to disagree. The only serious complain you can have with the VIVE is that there are very few titles with a large scope of playtime. But there is a large variety of small experiences and games, which gave me more fun than most of the 2d games I've played the last couple of years. Sure for pure movie-watching the resolution isn't there. But as soon as you're interacting and get lost in the experience, there's a big chance you get the feeling of presence or in other words of beeing transported. So if you have the possibilty of demoing a large roomscale setup, I can only give you the advice of taking the chance

The day an Elder Scrolls game comes out in VR I'll have own a VR headset, but even then: the games that I most value are the ones where I can pull a ten-hour session, and the journalists playing VR seem to tap out after about an hour. I absolutely believe that the technology is impressive, and I take games seriously enough to buy in at some point, but I'm not convinced that the economics of gaming are anywhere the point at which the potential VR audience can support the development of a full-length game.

The difference with audio VR is that we all have experience of pulling long sessions on headphones without feeling queasy so it's very much a proven technology with an established & mature product range.

That said, I'm glad that you like the VIVE because I always take account of positive feedback. It's the premium option, of course, and I have no space for the roomscale aspect, but I'll file away that recommendation for the future.

 

[Richter Di]

Hi, I visited them today in Paris and it was great.



The Demo measurement was quick and I had the chance to see the Dolby Atmos Demo and listen two audio tracks afterwards.
The demonstration was done in a closed, rather small hotel room where every furniture besides the listening chair had been removed.
The headphone used for demonstration was the Sennheier HD800. The Smyths' (if I may call them in lack of remembering their first names) were extremely friendly and patient.
Allready during the setup when the comparison regarding the volume of the speakers versus the headphones was done, it was unbelievable how accurately similar the loudspeaker and the representation through the HD 800 sounded.
So I am very happy to confirm what everbody else, who has heard the A8 or A16, says: it really works and the integration between the SVS Head Tracker Unit and the Realizer is so well that I could not spot any delays, which adds a lot to the realism of the audio.
Overall I prefered the audio via the HD 800. The sound was even clearer and more transparent compared to the loudspeaker setup. But while the accuracy of replicating the loudspeaker was 100%, the loudspeakers did something the Realizer did not in the same way. As every good loudspeaker setup does, it creates a certain stage behind the loudspeakers. It is almost like a fake room they create. I am not sure why they do this but it seems almost independent of the audio input. Now the Realizer A16 also puts the audio events somewhere behind the virtual loudspeakers, but no room is created. This is something I have to investigate further when I will finally get my A16.
Money and time finally well invested! This system is a loudspeaker industry killer. Why would anybody invest in expensive loudspeakers if he can get the best loudspeakers in the world in a small box?

 

[Richter Di]

PS: I hope I am not repeating something which was allready written somewhere else in the thread. I asked Smyth about the influence of the loudspeaker quality for the measurement process. The interesting part was that he said the room itself is 70% to 80% of the quality of the measurement. Regarding the speakers (and for sure the rest of the chain), it is more about the even loudness over the whole frequency spectrum. While when you listen to speakers the harmonic distortions play a vital role, they are canceled out by the measurement method. So a lot of what I read was about getting to a perfect home theater etc. I think that a good recording studio might be the most appropriate place for making the measurements as the room is usualy quite dry and the speaker are setup for linearity without any major frequencies flaws. And while getting a setup in a cinema might be difficult, getting an hour in a recording studio as fairly easy. Just my 2 cents.

 

[krismusic]

PS: I hope I am not repeating something which was allready written somewhere else in the thread. I asked Smyth about the influence of the loudspeaker quality for the measurement process. The interesting part was that he said the room itself is 70% to 80% of the quality of the measurement. Regarding the speakers (and for sure the rest of the chain), it is more about the even loudness over the whole frequency spectrum. While when you listen to speakers the harmonic distortions play a vital role, they are canceled out by the measurement method. So a lot of what I read was about getting to a perfect home theater etc. I think that a good recording studio might be the most appropriate place for making the measurements as the room is usualy quite dry and the speaker are setup for linearity without any major frequencies flaws. And while getting a setup in a cinema might be difficult, getting an hour in a recording studio as fairly easy. Just my 2 cents.

I'm no expert but I think recording studios tend to use near field monitors. Designed to interact with the room as little as possible. Not necessarily how you want to listen to music for enjoyment. Maybe if they had a nice playback room... Mind you. I would be more than happy with the sound of the hotel room that was used for the demo I heard at CanJam and that must have been less than ideal.

 

[AppleheadMay]

Are there any phones that are recommended for the A16?
Do some phones perform better than others with it?
Like a HD800 for example which has a very wide soundsatge.
Or would phones like the TH-900 that have better bass perform just as well?
 
Or in other words, how does one pick a pair of phones for surround applications?

 

[Richter Di]

Smyth themselves answered this question when discussing with the guy before my demo. So I was already in the room. He has beside Stax an headphone which didn't work so well with thebA8 he owns. The key sentence was, "transparency is king." Plus, "comfort rules" because you want to use the headphone for a longer time when you watch something.
So, they told us that they have all kind of different headphones which the companies just seem to send them. Now, while some of them sound great they do not necessarily have the right amount of transparency. They prefer Stax and for demonstration purpose even the Sennheiser HD 800 because of its better robustness.
I own beside a the HD 800 also a Hifiman HE500 and an Ultrasone Edition 9. I am happy to give feedback when I finally have the A16.

 

[krismusic]

Smyth themselves answered this question when discussing with the guy before my demo. So I was already in the room. He has beside Stax an headphone which didn't work so well with thebA8 he owns. The key sentence was, "transparency is king." Plus, "comfort rules" because you want to use the headphone for a longer time when you watch something.
So, they told us that they have all kind of different headphones which the companies just seem to send them. Now, while some of them sound great they do not necessarily have the right amount of transparency. They prefer Stax and for demonstration purpose even the Sennheiser HD 800 because of its better robustness.
I own beside a the HD 800 also a Hifiman HE500 and an Ultrasone Edition 9. I am happy to give feedback when I finally have the A16.

I was told by Steven that the choice of headphone was not critical as the Realiser calibrates and adjusts to a completely flat FR. He said my HD600's would work fine but he recommends the HD800 for comfort. ( Pretty much what you were saying!)

 

[jgazal]

 

I asked Smyth about the influence of the loudspeaker quality for the measurement process. The interesting part was that he said the room itself is 70% to 80% of the quality of the measurement. Regarding the speakers (and for sure the rest of the chain), it is more about the even loudness over the whole frequency spectrum. While when you listen to speakers the harmonic distortions play a vital role, they are canceled out by the measurement method.

 

 
Quote:

I did spend some money to get PRIRs at AIX studios and a couple of showrooms in socal (through Darin Fong).

What I realized is that, once back home, the only set I liked was the AIX one, because all the others sounded like weird echo / the reverb was intrusive.

So for me at least, even though the standards are such that you should have some reverb / avoid direct field from the surround channels in regular setup, I actually seem to prefer PRIRs taken in rather dry room (so I need the personalized xfeed but not so much the acoustic imprint of the room).

So to my idea: am wondering if it would make sense to get my own "PRIRs" (more like hrtfs) with the speaker rather close and stuffing the room walls to attenuate reflections as much as possible so that direct field dominates.

I'd prealably calibrate the speakers using the AV amp correction software so that response is reasonably flat at measured location.

 

  Indeed, PRIR measurements, for the purpose of enhancing a high quality BRIR, can easily be made at home using only a single tweeter connected to the mono speaker output (A16) and using the ONE measurement with the new head tracking pilot guidance system to establish the appropriate head-to-tweeter orientations. While tedious, measuring a PRIR file for personalising BRIRs would theoretically only need to be made once, provided a good range of different tweeter-to-head positions were included during such a measurement. 
 
We are currently putting together a low cost measurement kit that would include the tweeter driver and adjustable stand as an accessory to the A16 for this purpose. More details will be released in due course.
 
http://www.smyth-research.com/vaxchange.html

 
The Realiser A16 is advertised to emulate with headphones what would be heard using loudspeakers in reverberant listening rooms.
 
While pure HRTF acquisition is usually made in anechoic chambers, I have been thinking how close it can be acquired using the Realiser A16 and a full range transducer in a regular room.
 
Using a transducer with very high directivity (such as a flat electrostatic transducer) would reduce the ceiling, floor and side walls reflections. Do you think it would also reduce the torso reflections or the interaural level differences?
 
I am really curious about the potential of playing back stereo recordings with a BRIR acquired using both the "calibrated dry room" technique and the "crosstalk cancelling" technique mentioned by Arnaud and Eric Garci. 

 

[Sordel]

Richter Di's photo of the stainless steel frontplate to the A16 looks more attractive than Smyth's own promo photos. It'll be interesting to see if they stick with that for the final manufactured design because it could be quite distinctive.

 

[Richter Di]

How much of a difference does it make if you were to use a PRIR from someone else or a preset than if you were to actually make your own? Are people's ears really that different to make a big difference? Or is it more of a subtle difference where you're trying to reach perfection?

Hi, working my way through the thread once more. Sorry if the answer has been given already. I once owned the AKG 1000 with the BAP 1000. The whole concept of the BAP was to give you the choice between different ears. The sound varied extremely from setting to setting. So in short, it is a huge difference. It is also the main reason why binaural recordings done with a dummy head and dummy ears never really worked.