[NigelJ]

...Did the estimated retail price increase? I could have sworn it was around 1500 USD the last I saw it. Or I might be mistaken.

I think it did, probably due to the pound:dollar exchange rate, I expect that uncertainty on this and possibly the additions to the final design are why it is still only an estimated price.

 

[nassq8]

   
Got an email from KS showing that the transaction was declined by my credit card company. It is probably because the charge exceeds 1KUSD now with the current exchange rate.
 
Does any one know if the US bank will charge the foreign transaction fee for the payment to KS projects with pledges in foreign currency?

 
I've been charged (ripped off) around $30 above the pledged amount here in Kuwait without a good explanation. I do not see a reason that US banks are any different!

 

[NigelJ]

For convenience, I have pulled together Smyth Research's responses from the Kickstarter comments that provide additional insight on the operation of the A16 or extra features they will be adding. I have attempted to group the responses by topic and have included abbreviated questions where necessary to understand the responses. Because of the length of this post, the details are behind a spoiler alert.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

CREATING PRIRs

• Q. I read somewhere the tip that instead moving the speakers I could also just use a swivel chair. So turning myself instead of moving my 2 pairs of speakers.
  
  A. you need only one loudspeaker. I know of many A8 users who only make measurements that way with excellent results. Strictly speaking you are not recreating the acoustics of a real room. On the other hand if the one speaker is carefully positioned to maximise sound quality, then the result can be a virtual sound room where every speaker sounds good ie better than a real room.
  
  A. The A16 introduces a new method whereby you wear the head tracker while making the measurement (we supply a head band for this). The angle is fed back to the A16 which generates a tone that guides you to the next angle. Once you reach the correct angle the measurement starts automatically. So you select the angles you wish to measure in the A16 menu and away you go.
  [/*]
  
• Q. Can we capture the HTRF and integrate it into other room/setup profile?
  
  A. Essentially yes - we can extract the HRTF part of your personalised PRIR file and then re-insert this back into another generic PRIR, so as to personalise it with your HRTFs - it's not as good as making an original measurement in that room, but it's very good. The difference between your own personalised measurement and those available to download (generic measurements) is really difficult to quantify, because it depends on the physical differences between your head/ears and the generic head/ears. For some people it may be close, for others it may be very different. We'd hope to get a few samples for each room that we measure, in order to give users some choice, but the personalisation option should always improve the result.
  
  A. The actual HRTF extraction and insertion will be done on the Realiser Exchange website.
  [/*]
  
• I should also point out that the A16 programs it's Presets using individual speakers from any PRIR file stored in the memory. This means, for example, you just need to measure some overhead speakers and then load them with your 7.1ch studio PRIR to create a 7.1.4ch Preset.
  [/*]
  
• Q. Taking the PRIR that was made at at a show home is ok, but normally these rooms are not acoustically well treated etc. so it's just for someone who absolutely has no other way to get a PRIR.
  
  A. You're correct about the acoustics etc, but there are still two reasons for getting a PRIR done at a show:
  1. You'll be able to modify the reverberation of the room (in the PRIR), in time and frequency, to reduce bass modes.
  2. The PRIR could be used as the HRTF template for personalising other, better sounding but non-personalised rooms.
  [/*]
  
• A backer has just suggested using a digital recorder to record the SVS microphone signals while playing the DVD/Blu-ray test disc and then playing that output back to the A16 at a later date to recreate the PRIR. His suggestion is a good one and would allow PRIR measurements to be made with just the SVS microphones, a portable digital recorder and the DVD/Blu-ray test disc, as per your enquiry a few posts earlier. Yes, the SVS microphone pin-outs may not be compatible with standard portable recorder microphone inputs, but I think we can figure something out to resolve that issue.
  [/*]
  

EQUALISATION

• Q. In your description of headphone equalization, you refer to increased sub band resolution and also a parametric option to be added later. With either of these methods, are you addressing the issue of equalization below 1 kHz? With the A8 it seems that little resolution (and equalization) was available in this range.
  
  A. The parametric HPEQ will allow the low frequencies to be manipulated.
  [/*]
  
• Q. I hope there will be a subsonic filter for the headphone signal. I know of no headphone that doesn't get overloaded with very low bass signals at high volumes.
  
  A. Yes we have already had a request for a high-pass on the headphone output for the same reasons. That will not be a problem.
  [/*]
  
• Had not considered equalising the tactile output. It sounds like a few bands of parametric EQ (select centre freq, gain and Q) in the lower registers would suffice.
  [/*]
  

HEARING COMPENSATION

• A number of backers have requested some type of hearing compensation so I think we should bite the bullet and add this functionality. We will call this subjective equalisation, or SEQ. We can run a scheme similar to standard hearing tests whereby the listener adjusts the frequency band gain until the tone (or noise) is just audible. The SEQ measurement would be independent of the A16’s headphone equalisation measurement (HPEQ). Virtualised audio would pass through the HPEQ filter followed by the SEQ filter. If either EQ filters have not been measured then the respective filters are set to all-pass.
  [/*]
  
• Q. SEQ is interesting and probably very desired. However, I believe that, instead of measuring and compensating the hearing of two ears individually, SEQ in A16 should be done in such way which measures and compensates the combined hearing of both ears so that SEQ will not interfere with our original sound localization capability.
  
  A. I think I'll provide the option of either coupled or uncoupled compensation. Some people I've communicated with routinely use a graphic EQ, in line with the Realiser headphone output, with different settings for each ear. So I am guessing this improves both the fidelity and spatialisation for them. But I would agree with you that ordinarily, if your hearing is close to normal, one would not want to mess with the balance.
  [/*]
  

IN EAR HEADPHONES

• Q. Any suggestions on how to use in-ear-headphones (how to measure HPEQ with them, e.g. using a small tube where I put the mic in one end and the headphone in the other end.)?
  
  A. Your ‘ear canal’ tube idea is probably a good one. My only concern is that IEM EQ is all about attenuating the closed ear canal resonance which depends very much on the individual’s ear canal dimensions. Perhaps such an arrangement could be used as an initial measurement which could then be fine tuned using some other manual method. I would need to do some experiments. In previous comments I have come round to the idea of providing a minimum threshold measurement, or subjective EQ as I call it. I suspect this technique will also work for in-ear EQ. Imagine you are using the manual EQ method of the A8, but instead of comparing the headphone to the loudspeaker, you are adjusting the subband gain until you can just hear the subband signal. Normalising these subband gains with the standardised sensitivity curve will result in a flat in-ear response. Another method, which I have used in the lab, is to compare subband signal levels between an IEM and an already equalised over-ear headphone. For example, you put the IEM in the left ear only and then place the headphones over both ears. The listener switches between playing the subband signal to only the headphone right ear or only the IEM left ear, and adjusts the left ear subband gain until the volume appear similar in both ears. This is repeated for each frequency subband. Then the IEM is placed in the right ear and the whole process repeated again. It’s tedious but it does work.
  So the possible methods are, increase the frequency resolution of the new subjective EQ measurement and/or implement this IEM-Headphone comparison method. There are pros and cons with both.
  [/*]
  

HEAD TRACKER

• Q. Is it possible to use the Realiser without the head tracking unit?
  
  A. You can use the Realiser A16 without a headtracker - it simply reverts to looking dead centre. The retail price of the headtracker has not been set yet, but will be approximately £100.
  [/*]
  
• Q. Regarding the head tracker is it possible to use any kind of extension cord?
  
  A. Yes the head tracker cable can be extended as required. The cable itself is a 2.5mm 4-way jack to 2.5mm 4-way jack so it's a matter of finding a suitable male-to-female extension.
  [/*]
  

INPUTS AND OUTPUTS

• We have not ruled out multichannel SACD as a future option. The DST stream can presently be input via HDMI and we simply need to decode it and then convert to PCM prior to SVS virtualisation. Yes the effective 8-ch SVS sampling rate may presently be limited to 96kHz, but hopefully it could be raised to 192k for 6-ch modes with some refinement of the code.
  [/*]
  
• The A16 will support simultaneous play and binaural record over the USB, ie you play the multi-channel PCM audio file to the A16 and record back the stereo (binaural) PCM headphone signal using the USB line in. This is an all-digital play/record path. Another variation we may consider adding later is play over USB and record WAVE back to SD card.
  [/*]
  
• The USB play/record will be available from day one. Play/record will also be possible for the higher sampling rate modes as they become available. 192kHz is not currently supported by our USB implementation but our plan is to add support for stereo 24-bit 192kHz in and out. Note that the record back via USB will also be available for HDMI, SPDIF or analog sourced audio.
  [/*]
  
• The A16 will have a USB 2.0 host port (not shown in existing functional diagrams) in addition to the USB 2.0 device port (shown). We plan to use this port to support headphone PCM streaming to an external DAC. So it will be possible to input multi-channel PCM via the device port and output the headphone PCM on the host port simultaneously.
  [/*]
  
• Q. Can you look into the possibility to support HDMI 2.1 with HDCP 2.2 pass-through?
  
  A. We use an HDMI repeater board from MDS in California and they tell us every customer is asking for the same thing. The issue at the moment is the lack of HDMI chips that support 2.1 - in other words it will take time for the IC manufacturers to catch up. However MDS are presently working on a 2.0a board that is a drop-in replacement for the board we use and they see a 2.1 board in the pipeline immediately following that. So in time the A16 will be able to support what you ask. The HDMI board inside the A16 can be easily disconnected from the motherboard, so it should be possible for owners to retrofit themselves, or have it done at the distributor.
  [/*]

DECODING

• Q. In the document linked here on kickstarter you wrote that the decoder is limited to 12 channels, so 7.1.4 is the maximum at the moment. AFAIK the MSM studios have a 9.1.6 setup, so getting a measurement there for the 9.1.6-setup is useless when the Realiser decoder only can do 7.1.4!
  
  A. The DTS:X and Dolby Atmos decoding running on the board we buy from MDS is currently limited to 12 channels. Presently no audio DSP company (TI, ADI, etc) offers Atmos/DTS:X implementations that exceed 12 speakers at this time so we have no real way of avoiding this limitation. One option is to use the Illusonic up-mixer to convert 7.1.4ch to 9.1.6ch, so perhaps this will provide some motivation for measuring a 9.1.6ch speaker system.
  [/*]
  

MISCELLANEOUS

• We supply a Windows driver and an ASIO driver. If iOS and Andriod are class compliant then the A16 will connect without drivers although they may not support all the channel and/or sample rate options.
  [/*]
  
• The display will dim as the room becomes darker.
  [/*]
  
• Q. When using the A16 as a decoder/pre-amp, is there a main volume control for the 16 analog outs (and/or the 8ch PCM HDMI out) so that you only have to connect amplifiers with a (fixed) gain setting and can control the master volume for all speakers with the Realiser, just like an AV preamp?
  
  A. There are two volume controls (user A and user B). They are digital encoders so can be assigned to any function you desire. So they can alter the headphone volume in SVS mode but alter the line-out volume in AV mode, for example.
  [/*]
  
• Q. Would it be possible to use the in-ear microphones of the Raliser A16 to measure and visualize listening volume in dB?
  
  A. Yes it would be possible and I suspect it is something we should think about providing. I believe accumulated exposure level is another parameter one would want to keep a tab on. The microphone would only be needed once to calibrate the internal digital signal level against ear canal SPL.
  [/*]
  
• Lip-sync: The A16 will have both an audio delay function (as with the A8) as well as the ability to program the HDMI EDID table to request an upstream device to delay the video. The combination will mean you can dial in a +/- audio delay. We can create a delay value for each HDMI input if required.
  [/*]
  
• Q. After a power loss the A8 was switched on always, regardless of power state before (reason was that someone without a remote control could use the A8 as it was; there was no power button on the A8). For the A16, please reconsider this design and - if possible - change it into standy after power is restored.
  
  A. Yes we can do that. The headphone volume encoders include a momentary push switch. Hence you can press either volume knob to take the unit out of standby.
  [/*]
  

Edit: Exra comment added in Inputs and Outputs section (behind Spoiler! alert).

 

[Sanctuary]

Might seem like a stupid question, but does anyone know yet if this will support HDR?  I know HDMI 1 supports 4K @60Hz, but it doesn't mention anything about HDR. Not supporting that (while supporting 4K...) would be a deal breaker.

 

[Evshrug]

I don't know, but it shouldn't be hard to find an adapter to duplicate or strip the audio from the HDMI going to the TV and connect to the Realiser, or connect the Realiser to a TV output.

 

[Sanctuary]

I don't know, but it shouldn't be hard to find an adapter to duplicate or strip the audio from the HDMI going to the TV and connect to the Realiser, or connect the Realiser to a TV output.

 
TV output only works if the TV actually outputs in Atmos and the newer formats though.

 

[valleynomad]

   
I've been charged (ripped off) around $30 above the pledged amount here in Kuwait without a good explanation. I do not see a reason that US banks are any different!

 
Saw a charge of 1025.14USD. It seems that Chase didn't charge extra fee for the transaction. This is probably because that it is the Kickstart that collects the money and it is a US company. 
Now the wait has began

 

[Evshrug]

Saw a charge of 1025.14USD. It seems that Chase didn't charge extra fee for the transaction. This is probably because that it is the Kickstart that collects the money and it is a US company. 
Now the wait has began

American Express charged me a foreign transaction fee, the Kickstarter program for the Realizer was paid in British Sterling Pounds.

Wait already began!!! I don't expect to see something till June/July, not because I doubt Smith, just that minor delays is usually how these things go.

 

[Sanctuary]

I emailed Smyth Research last Friday, and just got a reply.  Apparently it only supports HDMI 2.0.  Which means it does not support HDR.  Which also makes it an entirely pointless proposition going forward.  All modern receivers need to support HDMI 2.0a.  This just seems like a gross oversight, when you consider how it's supporting all modern audio formats.

 

[krismusic]

I emailed Smyth Research last Friday, and just got a reply.  Apparently it only supports HDMI 2.0.  Which means it does not support HDR.  Which also makes it an entirely pointless proposition going forward.  All modern receivers need to support HDMI 2.0a.  This just seems like a gross oversight, when you consider how it's supporting all modern audio formats.

I'm very surprised that Smyth wouldn't take that on board at this pre production stage.

 

[dsperber]

In passing, optional configurations to support each person's A/V setup can sometimes be problematic.  And then there's device compatibility to consider, especially when HDMI is concerned (although this is improving, but certainly still "delicate").
 
When I bought my HDMI Realiser A8 I had initially planned to send HDMI output from my Oppo 103 (set to decode audio to discrete multi-channel LPCM and deliver that out via HDMI), so as to feed the Realiser's HDMI input with the expected LPCM format.  Then I was going to use the HDMI output of the Realiser to go on to my Yamaha RX-V867 AVR's HDMI input, to pass through the video through the AVR and its HDMI output, on to my Panny 65VT50 HDTV.  That was the plan.
 
Well, there was an HDMI compatibility issue, with all of these HDMI devices serially daisy-chain connected.  Even though all the devices handling audio were capable of accepting multi-channel audio input, somehow that message wasn't getting back to the Oppo source device properly.  So it [mistakenly] thought only 2-channel stereo was supported in the audio chain, and this prevented the Oppo from putting out multi-channel audio.  It's been a while now (since 2013) and I can't quite remember everything that happened, but I think I also wasn't even able to get video delivered to the HDTV.  Something about a compatibility issue injecting the Yamaha AVR in the sequence.
 
Anyway, in the end, the issue was simply insurmountable.  Something about the HDMI output from the Realiser wasn't fully compatible with the next two downstream devices, and this impacted what the upstream Oppo 103 source box was "willing to deliver" over HDMI, where HDCP and copy-protection is of concern.  I had to flush my original system schematic plan.
 
Instead, I took advantage of the TWO available HDMI outputs on the Oppo 103, and its ability to configure it in "split A/V mode" which supports sending video-only out of the Oppo's HDMI1 and audio-only out of the Oppo's HDMI2.  This was my solution.
 
So I sent HDMI2 out of the Oppo to the Realiser's HDMI input (with nothing connected to the HDMI output of the Realiser).  Configured to decode to LPCM, the Oppo is thus delivering decoded audio-only LPCM to the Realiser's HDMI input.   And with nothing HDMI-downstream from the Realiser to "confuse" the upstream Oppo, and with the Oppo configured in "split A/V mode", there was no no problem at all delivering the perfect format discrete multi-channel LPCM from Oppo to Realiser via HDMI2 out of the Oppo.
 
And I sent HDMI1 out of the Oppo carrying video-only to the HDMI input of the Yamaha AVR's HDMI input.  I was not in need of audio/video handling in the AVR when using the Realiser for audio.  I only needed the AVR to handle video and pass it on straight through to the Panny HDTV from the HDMI output of the AVR (and with no video processing performed, although in theory it could have been done in the AVR).  This utilizes the video processing capability of the Oppo, feeding HDMI pass-through from the Oppo's HDMI1 output through the AVR and its HDMI output, and on to the HDTV.  With only the usual AVR and downstream HDTV connected through HDMI1 out of the Oppo, there is no compatibility problem and video is sent unimpeded from Oppo through AVR and on to HDTV.
 
This "split A/V mode" capability of the Oppo provides two completely separate and independent HDMI paths: (a) HDMI1 for video-only, to the AVR and on to the HDTV, and (b) HDMI2 for audio-only, carrying decoded multi-channel LPCM to the Realiser.
 
And the way this "split A/V mode" works is that if you actually wanted to use real loudspeakers instead of listening through Realiser-enabled headphones, you can do that too.  You simply don't have the HDMI2 path powered on (i.e. you have the Realiser powered off, in standby) and that causes the Oppo to revert to sending both audio and video out over HDMI1.  Since HDMI1 goes the AVR it is now receiving both audio and video from the Oppo source device, and handling all of the normal audio and video services it needs to.  This allows you to optionally use all the regular audio capabilities of your AVR and external speakers instead of listening through the Realiser.  You simply power the Realiser off and now both audio and video get delivered out HDMI1 of the Oppo to HDMI input of the AVR, and everything now is perfectly standard and normal.  Video and audio are sent out together to the HDMI input of the AVR, with video then sent on to the HDTV and audio is sent to the AVR-connected loudspeakers.
 
Bottom line: by using a source box like the Oppo with two separate HDMI output paths, one HDMI1 for video-only destined for AVR and HDTV, and a second HDMI2 for audio-only destined for Realiser A8/A16, and an optional configuration (with Realiser powered off in standby) to send both audio and video out over HDMI1 to the AVR for processing and handling, you have complete freedom to deal with UHD 4K, HDR, etc., with nothing at all depending on any Realiser video capabilities or deficiencies.  You're using the Realiser as an audio-only device, which after all is what this product is all about.  Also possessing HDMI-output (for pass-through to other downstream device(s)) is really for complex connectivity convenience, say if you didn't have an Oppo source device with two HDMI outputs.  I personally wouldn't think of the absence of HDMI 2.0a compatibility in the HDMI-passthrough to be a "deal breaker", considering what the A16 is really all about as far as its remarkable audio processing capabilities.  Think of an Oppo as your "solution" to this video problem, rather than not wanting an A16 because it couldn't pass through HDR video.
 
With a flexible source device like the Oppo the AVR and HDTV are fed video independently, through their own separate HDMI path.  If your source device and AVR and HDTV support HDMI 2.0a and HDR, fine.  You can still support that with zero dependency on the Realiser.  You just need something like the Oppo with two HDMI outputs as your primary source device and an available configuration like "split A/V mode" to create two separate video-only and audio-only HDMI output paths (along with a third optional audio/video combined HDMI output path which does not go through the Realiser, so there's no HDMI version compatibility consideration).

 

[NigelJ]

I emailed Smyth Research last Friday, and just got a reply.  Apparently it only supports HDMI 2.0.  Which means it does not support HDR.  Which also makes it an entirely pointless proposition going forward.  All modern receivers need to support HDMI 2.0a.  This just seems like a gross oversight, when you consider how it's supporting all modern audio formats.

The following was a reply made by Stephen Smyth in the Kickstarter comments on 8 August:

We use an HDMI repeater board from MDS in California and they tell us every customer is asking for the same thing. The issue at the moment is the lack of HDMI chips that support 2.1 - in other words it will take time for the IC manufacturers to catch up. However MDS are presently working on a 2.0a board that is a drop-in replacement for the board we use and they see a 2.1 board in the pipeline immediately following that. So in time the A16 will be able to support what you ask. The HDMI board inside the A16 can be easily disconnected from the motherboard, so it should be possible for owners to retrofit themselves, or have it done at the distributor.​

 

[Sanctuary]

The following was a reply made by Stephen Smyth in the Kickstarter comments on 8 August:
  We use an HDMI repeater board from MDS in California and they tell us every customer is asking for the same thing. The issue at the moment is the lack of HDMI chips that support 2.1 - in other words it will take time for the IC manufacturers to catch up. However MDS are presently working on a 2.0a board that is a drop-in replacement for the board we use and they see a 2.1 board in the pipeline immediately following that. So in time the A16 will be able to support what you ask. The HDMI board inside the A16 can be easily disconnected from the motherboard, so it should be possible for owners to retrofit themselves, or have it done at the distributor.

 
Good to know I guess if it's true.  Doesn't make much sense that I would only get half of a reply however, and it also just sounds like more money to be spent on something that's already not inexpensive, when that should be a feature that comes standard.

 

[LajostheHun]

HDMI is and always been a moving target, a lot can happen between now and next summer.

 

[Sanctuary]

Got a second reply, which basically says the same thing.  Although it's not really a "moving target" for a device that will be released in around a year from now, when it's the standard for a lot of high end audio receivers that were released this year, to take advantage of the current standard.
 
 

The audio circuitry of the A16 is completely the Smyths' design down to the component level. However, the HDMI section is a module sourced from a prominent vendor which is considered to be a leading design of its type, and in use by various audio and video manufacturers.
 
The present version of this module is HDMI 2.0. There is an HDMI 2.0a version coming, and a 2.1 version in development. We are not sure which version will be available when A16 production commences.
 
We are told that these HDMI generations are not firmware-upgradeable because different chip sets are required, but that the physical dimensions will not change, which means that the modules can be replaced within the A16, at least up to 2.1. There would obviously be cost and inconvenience involved.
 
This transition is an issue for many products and brands beyond ours, and there will no doubt be further HDMI versions which will continue to present a challenge to manufacturers and users alike.
 
As to what is required for HDR, it is my understanding that the competing HDR coding systems have different requirements, and on the details of that I have found conflicting information. Therefore it's best if we quote HDMI and HDCP version numbers which we can certify, and refer you to the video manufacturers and codec developers to declare their version needs.
 
Lorr Kramer
Smyth Research

 

 
So basically, you either have to hope that they incorporate the new board before it goes into mass production, or wait a few more years until version 2.1 arrives.  Or of course, you could also pay an addtional (probably) $500+ upgrade for the aspect you might be buying it for in the first place anyway.  Seriously, who is going to buy one of these strictly for emulating a speaker setup for music only?  In most cases, headphones in stereo are still the better option in that regard.  Not thinking about current standards just makes it an outdated 1080p accessory upon release.  Even the new consoles will have HDR (the Pro already does).