[esimms86]

I enjoy the humor in your post and it also reminds me that you can, in some instances, book a late night so called "graveyard session " when recording studios are otherwise not in use and, therefore, less profitable (less costly?). I would also imagine that studios used for film or video game sound mixing or mastering would have top notch 5.1, or greater, sound systems.

 

[jgazal]

IMHO, one would try to negotiate in the following terms:

1. The measured user will bring a DSP to acquire a PRIR to the location being measured.

2. The user will not retain a copy of such PRIR and will give the original to the owner of the location measured.

3. The owner of the location will create a login in the exchange site where he/she is going to sell such PRIR to any user, therefore rendering new revenues to the owner of the location.

4. The measured user can acquire the PRIR in the exchange site (price or exemption negotiable).

5. The users, including the measured user, will respect the PRIR/BRIR copyright:

PRIR/BRIR Copyright

Use of the Realiser Exchange services will be conditional on members agreeing to certain copyright terms and conditions. Members will agree:

1. that copyright of PRIR/BRIR files sold or exchanged through the website is always retained by the owner of the room in which the measurements were made, even if such files are subsequently modified by the purchaser.

2. that by purchasing PRIR/BRIR files they are only being granted a license by the copyright holder to use such measurements for their own enjoyment.

3. to copy, record, distribute, or facilitate the copying or recording of any part of such PRIR or BRIR files only with the permission of the copyright owner.

http://www.smyth-research.com/vaxchange.html

 

[Evshrug]

^that's quite a gift.

"Hey, can I bring my $2000 special measurement device and personal time, and give you a free product to sell?" The Smyth PRIR market isn't huge, but yeah things are definitely in the studio's favor if YOU do the work, YOU pay for the studio time, and YOU give them a free sellable product. That's like a musician renting studio session time and giving all the album sales to the studio.

I personally would just go to a movie theater or recording studio, and ask how much it would cost to rent usage of the space for 15-30 minutes.

 

[jgazal]

Evshrug

If you were an owner of a location with the following amount of investment:

(...)

If I had to duplicate my own main nearfield monitoring system (with its speaker stands, decouplers and acoustic treatment) from scratch, I estimate it'd cost £1000 more than the Realiser — and you could probably add another £1000 to that if I used off-the-shelf acoustics products rather than thriftily constructing my own.

(...)

http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/smyth-research-realiser-a8

And you were asked to rent it for measuring a PRIR, what option would you choose?

A) Buy a Realiser A16 to get the location measured by yourself and sell such measurement at the exchange site for any user in the world;

B) Not buy a Realiser A16, but accept the offer as mentioned in my last post;

C) Just rent it warning the user to not donate or sell the PRIR to anyone;

D) Forbid PRIR measurements in your location.

 

[jgazal]

Evshrug

And if you had this (gearslutz.com - first dolby atmos studio moscow) amount of investment?

Would you still choose option A, B or C?

 

[raband]

Cheers guys, you're all great.
 
Couple of other "silly questions" for discussion:
 
The bog standard music recording studio will be likely to have a decent multiple speaker listening environment available to take the measurements in?
 
When we take a PRIR of a larger theatre/room etc, would we be looking to match the "centre channel" location with the distance/position of where a screen would be in the home?
Or can that be done via the Realiser when we get home?
Or doesn't it matter in real life if the "virtual speakers" space is much larger than the physical, putting the "viewing distance" so far remote to the "hearing distance". ie - direction is far more important than distance (have never tried a centre channel that isn't positioned directly upon the screen)

 

[Evshrug]

jgazal
Option E.) charge a rental fee, maybe charge more if I knew what a PRIR was
I think it's honest to explain what a PRIR is if the studio owner cares, and mention up front if you want to sell it on the Exchange site, but in a practical sense the PRIR will only work perfectly for the person who does the measurement, and perfect for nobody if a dummy head was used for recording.

AIX Studio in California (LA? San Fran?) is already aware of Smyth (the staff engineers may even own their own A8's now to take their work home with them), and they simply charge like $400 for a measurement. They may have their own PRIR all ready to upload onto the Exchange site at a lower cost than the site rental for all I know (Option A), knowing that the live/personalized experience will still be better. Other studios may simply not care about investing in the Realiser to create their own site general-PRIR.

Now, that's California and not every place will charge the same, but I think it's fair to charge a bit more while also respecting that artists and recording engineers rent the same studio and don't have to give up their copyright.

 

[jgazal]

I see your point.

I would never recommend any user to rent an studio for 30 minutes fee without explaining carefully to the owner or the manager that the purpose is not to record musical instruments and voices or mixing a disc (the expected use), but to play a blueray disc with sine sweeps that are going to be recorded with binaural ear microphones and a portable recorder and also that such recording is going to be processed at the exchange site for my solely use (this option of measurement is not confirmed, but was considered by the creator in the kickstarter comments).

I would also give the exact same explanation if the sweeps are recorded with the Realiser itself at the location.

If I had the aim to sell my PRIR to other users (it is a BRIR for them) in the exchange site, I would explain the owner that other users can also personalise that BRIR in the exchange site, although with slightly lower fidelity.

I would also get written consent from the owner and disclose what is the current price in the exchange site for a BRIR from locations with similar quality of acoustics (or fame). I guess that, after knowing all that, the owner would like to receive a percentage of the revenue you will have at the exchange site and that percentage will likely to be also written in the consent.

I just cannot estimate right now prices for:

1. Renting an studio for a original personalised PRIR or

2. Buying a BRIR and paying Smyth Research for posterior personalisation processing in the exchange site.

One could roughly estimate the future supply and demand for both alternatives by 1. asking AIX and other world studios how many PRIRs were made there and 2. counting the number of PRIR's that were downloaded in the PRIR exchange thread (or the number of copies OOYH sold).

Hopefully there will also be a free library of BRIRs for personalisation and/or download at the exchange site.

 

[AppleheadMay]

Is there anyone from Smyth around in this thread I can contact with a PM?
I have a feeling my emails aren't getting through to them since they keep askling me what configuration I want for the A16.

 

[GU1DO]

  Is there anyone from Smyth around in this thread I can contact with a PM?
I have a feeling my emails aren't getting through to them since they keep askling me what configuration I want for the A16.

Same Here .. there customer support is not responsive ..
i asked if they have Rack Edition ,, and if they ship to my country
they just direct me to Pre order Page ?

 

[Sordel]

@Evshrug

If you were an owner of a location with the following amount of investment:
And you were asked to rent it for measuring a PRIR, what option would you choose?

 
As far as I'm concerned, I'm not even sure that a professional studio is the best place to listen to multichannel audio; I'd be a lot more interested in hearing a good audiophile home listening room, and since I don't personally know anyone with one of those I'm more than happy to download a PRIR recorded in their own home by an enthusiast. Obviously a famous facility is going to leverage the brand recognition of its name and want to licence their own PRIR to Smyth ... I would think that they would turn away anyone who came knocking to take measurements. But the reality of things is that PRIRs will be recorded by people getting favours from friends in the industry so it won't be long before the official "Abbey Road" PRIR has competitors from a "Cathedral Lane" PRIR ... that's just the way things go. Being able to compare different listening environments is one of the big selling points of this to me.

 

[AppleheadMay]

Same Here .. there customer support is not responsive ..
i asked if they have Rack Edition ,, and if they ship to my country
they just direct me to Pre order Page ?

They do have a rack and a headphone stand edition, both available in black or silver. They email you for your choice when final payment is due which is in the next two weeks.
The rack edition comes without rack mounts but those are available for a small extra fee.

 

[AppleheadMay]

Just got confirmation from Smyth they received my mail. I chose the black rackmount version.
Awaiting the final bill ...

 

[jgazal]

(...)

audiophile home listening room

(...)

people getting favours from friends in the industry so it won't be long before the official "Abbey Road" PRIR has competitors from a "Cathedral Lane" PRIR ... that's just the way things go.

Being able to compare different listening environments is one of the big selling points of this to me.

Post #677 and the copyright mention the owner of the room, either recording or mixing rooms in professional studio or the listening room of an audiophile friend.

AFAIK only very rare audiophile listening rooms have the same level of isolation and internal acoustic treatment than good quality professional studios.

An audiophile is not forbidden to donate his PRIR or allow a PRIR measurement for free and authorize free distribution of the BRIR for other users.

I just feel that the user being measured must carefully explain the owner what is being measured and the potential altruistic/recreational or commercial use that PRIR may have.

Personally, I would like to have a HRTF in a PRIR envelope, as arnaud already mentioned early in this thread, preferably in an anechoic room (which may be more difficult to reach than any studio or audiophile room).

There may be a difference between the recording venue/room and the mixing/mastering room.

But I do agree with you that the liberty to choose different flavours from different reverberant rooms is a selling point to be praised.

As you say, I don't doubt some users paying substantial amounts for measuring a PRIR or personalising a BRIR from the mixing/mastering room of a world famous studio.

But who is going to internalise that imaterial value? The owner of the studio or the member of the staff that did such "favor"?

 

[Evshrug]

Maybe it should be shared, with some sort of royalty agreement.

Personally, I'm not looking to go into a PRIR/BRIR business, I have PLENTY of other things to keep my time full If I quit my day job, it could be a cool project to use foam, blankets, a protractor, and a single speaker to carefully make a full 16-position PRIR at home. Minimize room placement effects, you know?