[jazzfan]

Isn't one of the upshots of this that you can take a PRIR of a speaker which plays with exceptional quality at lower volume levels (Quad ESL 57 comes most immediately to mind) but had limited dynamic range and by playing it over a headphone with high dynamic range (HD 800 for example) get the same characteristics but with much greater dynamic range?

Absolutely! This was an incredible realization for me the first time I heard a QUAD PRIR. This is a priceless benefit for Quad owners who long to hear their speakers at realistic concert levels.

 

[dsperber]

As a side note, while I'm sure that you've kept up to speed with the posts here, I'd like to reiterate the value of the Smyth's YouTube videos. In particular, be sure to check out the Basic video on transferring A8 presets to the A16 as you prepare to load your A16 with your AIX Studios preset.

I have now finished the initial infrastructure logistical changes for the new A16:

(a) The old analog A8 has been removed from the 4K LG OLED UDP203 location and re-boxed.

(b) The HDMI A8 has been removed from the 1080p Panny BDP-103 location and moved to the 4K LG OLED UDP203 location (with Stax SR-Omega/SRM-T1S). Oppo HDMI2-out goes to HDMI-in of the A8. Optical output from A8 goes to Oppo Sonica DAC, -> Stax via XLR. Oppo HDMI audio output set to LPCM (no Dolby Atmos possible with this equipment, but 4K video supported).

(c) The new A16 has been installed at the 1080p Panny BDP-103 location (with Stax SR-009/SRM-007tii). HDMI2-out of the 103 is connected to HDMI1-in of the A16. Two Linksys DMA2100 extenders (for Windows Media Center) feed HDMI-in-front and HDMI-in-back of the Oppo. Oppo HDMI audio output set to LPCM.

(d) The new Oppo UDP-203 has been installed at the 1080p Panny location. HDMI2-out of the 203 is connected to HDMI2-in of the A16. Roku Ultra feeds HDMI-in-back of the Oppo. Oppo HDMI audio output set to BITSTREAM.

(e) The A16 optical output is connected to my Audio-GD NFB9 DAC, -> Stax via XLR. So the A16 provides headphone output for any of my sources: discs played on 103 or 203, HDTV from either DMA2100, streaming via Roku or 103. Dolby 5.1/7.1 and Dolby Atmos can be provided from the 203. DTS-HD MA can be provided from the 103. Video limited to 1080p due to Panny.


I still have not yet begun to work with the A16, other than to get things wired correctly. And I wanted to verify that I could get picture and sound (from my stereo speakers, when not using headphones) from all sources (now that I have a 103 and 203 here, both feeding the A16) at the Panny location with the A16. So far so good.

I have powered on the A16 and looked at things, but don't know how to use the remote yet.

Which brings me to my first somewhat negative comment. Granted, I haven't read the manual, and I haven't done much more than put the batteries in the remote and power the A16 on after all cabling was completed. But I have now printed out the manual so that I could have something on paper in front of me to reference. Sure, I will almost always be viewing the PDF on my computer, but I still like to have the manual in paper.

And... THE FONT USED FOR THE MANUAL TEXT IS JUST FOOLISHLY TINY! Why would you use such a small font??? There is an awful lot of white space (on paper and onscreen when viewing the PDF), that could really better have been used by a significantly larger font that is much easier to use.

As an example, here is a sample of text from the A8 PDF manual. It is using a serif font (looks like New Times Roman, but I'm not sure) and is displayed zoomed to 150% by the Reader:

And here is the identical text segment from the A16 PDF manual, also displayed zoomed to 150% by the Reader. Different non-serif font at smaller size, different "document style" (i.e. more blank space between lines):

Personally, I find it much easier to read the A8 manual... especially when printed on paper.


And that brings me to my second "complaint", regarding the very useful and appreciated YouTube videos. Clearly a picture's worth 1000 words, and with a video demonstrating something it is much easier provide the visual demonstration, even more so that a set of still pictures or many many printed words. So kudos for the idea of a set of instructional videos to make up for oversights or omissions in the manual, and to clarify "by demonstration" precisely how to do something when the manual's text description is lengthy or wordy or complex and where a real example would be very instructive.

However... the video frame includes (a) text in the upper left that you are to read, (b) a picture of fingers pushing buttons on a horizontally oriented remote at the bottm left, and then (c) a picture of the screen of the A16 which is rapidly changing as the fingers rapidly push buttons. If we try to look at the keys of the horizontal to see what the fingers are doing, the key being pressed is actually obscured by the finger tip so you kind of have to guess which key was pressed if you're not yet an expert. And if we look at the fingers tapping keys, how can we read along with the text, or simultaneously look at the screen of the A16 to see what's going on there?

It's all happening MUCH TOO FAST, without verbal narration but rather requiring us to read the text. It's not possible for our eyes to be looking in three places at once.

I think a verbal narration, rather then printed text to be read, would have been a MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE method for providing the "you do this" instructions.

Also, there should be a pause between steps or instructions or finger presses of keys, and the "narrator" should say "and now notice that the screen shows this, or that, etc.."

Not to mention the inexplicable music in the background. Why music at all? Why not absolute silence so we're not distracted or annoyed? Why not a narrator reading the words, instead of obligating us to read the text ourselves?


And, finally, an immediate item of confusion stemming from the video showing how to import A8 PRIR's and HPEQ's into the A16. There isn't any section at all in the manual for this, so this video is it as far as what to do and how to manage files on the SD card.

The beginning of the video describes copying the A8 PRIR and HPEQ files into two folders on the SD card, which are spelled out as PRIRS and HPEQS. To be honest, I don't know if the trailing "S" is actually intended to be there in the folder names, or if they are trying to pluralize PRIR in describing a folder named PRIR to hold multiple PRIR files. I ask this because a bit later in the video it describes a process (which runs by like a freight train at lightning speed with fingers flying and the A16 screen changing and text disappearing before I've finished reading it so that the next text can appear) to navigate to those folders on the SD card. And in that next step they are referred to as "... under the PRIR SD card directory" and "... under the HPEQ SD card directory", rather than PRIRS and HPEQS.

In other words, should it be PRIR or PRIRS, and HPEQ or HPEQS? I'm sure it would be easy enough for me to experimentally try on first and if that works great but if not then try the other.

But I simply point out that right here on day one minute one of my getting started with this YouTube tutorial instruction video set, I'm considerably off-put by what they've provided. I'm sure I will learn from it and make use of it, and the whole concept is terrific. But I'd certainly like to provide them with this user's feedback.

 

[Anakin1976]

My heart stopped beating for a second reading this...
I'm afraid audiohobbit most likely is right.

Buf if you "pledge" US $3995,- plus taxes where applicable right now you maybe can have an A16 in a few days (if they didn't sell all the extra units already)...

The "extra units" are not already sold, I've just bought one (headstand unit) yesterday.

 

[sander99]

However... the video frame includes (a) text in the upper left that you are to read, (b) a picture of fingers pushing buttons on a horizontally oriented remote at the bottm left, and then (c) a picture of the screen of the A16 which is rapidly changing as the fingers rapidly push buttons. If we try to look at the keys of the horizontal to see what the fingers are doing, the key being pressed is actually obscured by the finger tip so you kind of have to guess which key was pressed if you're not yet an expert. And if we look at the fingers tapping keys, how can we read along with the text, or simultaneously look at the screen of the A16 to see what's going on there?

You are right but the solution is simple: I pause the video everytime a new text appears and continue the video when I finished reading that text. And if I still can't follow what's happening I jump back a little in the video.

 

[kh36267]

i was hoping I would have received my A16 by this weekend (it was supposed to be delivered on 9/5); however, it appears that UPS has lost the package for the moment. It made it over to the US from the UK, passed through customs in Philadelphia, PA, and then headed to the main UPS hub in Louisville, KY. Unfortunately the tracking stops there.....

I immediately contacted James to begin a trace request with UPS. He was very responsive and filled out the approprate tracing template so that the shipper they use in the UK can work with UPS to track down the package.

i've not had much luck with UPS the past couple of weeks......this doesn't help restore my confidence.....

 

[audiohobbit]

Yes, pause the video and mute it so that you don't have to hear the music that seems to be so annoying for some...

All this complaining is a bit annoying I have to admit. Even about the remote control, why it's not a totally proprietary one, and the music in the videos, please...

If I had s.th. to complain then it is about really important things like missing features or explanations but I hope most of these will be added and provided in the future.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

The "extra units" are not already sold, I've just bought one (headstand unit) yesterday.

I can't say this for a fact, but it seems obvious: Smyth has not as yet produced nearly enough units to fulfill the existing commitments to the Kickstarter and pre-order people. As a consequence they are producing units right now and using the funds received from new orders to finance both fulfilling promised units to original stakeholders and the new orders. This means that new orders will continue to be honored into the indefinite future b/c they are the new lifeblood of the company.

 

[esimms86]

So now the YouTube instructional video series up to 9 Basic and 1 Advanced(and counting, so I would imagine).

 

[sander99]

I can't say this for a fact, but it seems obvious: Smyth has not as yet produced nearly enough units to fulfill the existing commitments to the Kickstarter and pre-order people. As a consequence they are producing units right now and using the funds received from new orders to finance both fulfilling promised units to original stakeholders and the new orders. This means that new orders will continue to be honored into the indefinite future b/c they are the new lifeblood of the company.

That doesn't seem obvious to me at all, I think it is more likely like this: They had a specific number of parts (housings, hdmi- and other circuit boards, etc., rows of which we have seen on pictures) ready long before they finished the firmware. They stopped taking new pre-orders a long time ago, probably because the total numbers of orders equalled the number of units in that first batch (minus a few they will keep for themselves, for developing, testing, future certifications, maybe a few spare ones in case they accidentally fry one, etc.).
A few orders have been cancelled, around 20 as someone heard. Those are the ones they are selling full price. Probably they sold quite a few of those already, maybe not all (but Anakin1976 could have gotten the last one for all we know). And some people (at least one) payed the price difference for an existing order, that doesn't change the total number of orders, nor the total amount of units available for the total number of orders.

 

[Got the Shakes]

So I’ve run into an interesting problem which is kind of a big issue. The HDMI 3 and 4 ports don’t work correctly. They for some reason now can’t pass both HDR and 4K. It’s one or the other. Tried many different cables and devices. Tried just about everything but a factory reset of the A16 so far. I’m going to email James and see if I can get some help. I have a splitter laying around and could route all of my stuff to ports 1 and 2 that work fine, but that’s not the way a $4,000 device should be operating.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

That doesn't seem obvious to me at all, I think it is more likely like this: They had a specific number of parts (housings, hdmi- and other circuit boards, etc., rows of which we have seen on pictures) ready long before they finished the firmware. They stopped taking new pre-orders a long time ago, probably because the total numbers of orders equalled the number of units in that first batch (minus a few they will keep for themselves, for developing, testing, future certifications, maybe a few spare ones in case they accidentally fry one, etc.).
A few orders have been cancelled, around 20 as someone heard. Those are the ones they are selling full price. Probably they sold quite a few of those already, maybe not all (but Anakin1976 could have gotten the last one for all we know). And some people (at least one) payed the price difference for an existing order, that doesn't change the total number of orders, nor the total amount of units available

Maybe you're right, who knows. Whole situation reminds me of what's going on with the Popeye's chicken sandwich. Who'da thought you'd be unable to obtain an electronic component and a fast food item when you have $4005.25 available to lay down for them. Makes you realize how fragile this whole civilization thing really is.

 

[CaptainFunk]

I got an email yesterday from James confirming my shipping address, I am backer #25. Progress seems to be slow but not halted, really hope that they can speed things up for everyone else.

 

[KaiSc]

Isn't one of the upshots of this that you can take a PRIR of a speaker which plays with exceptional quality at lower volume levels (Quad ESL 57 comes most immediately to mind) but has limited dynamic range and by playing it over a headphone with high dynamic range (HD 800 for example) get the same characteristics but with much greater dynamic range?

Yes, the convolution process itself does not introduce any noise into the reproduction.
And, as absolute loudness is not stored anywhere during the process you get an unlimited dynamic range.

The mentions Quad ELS 57 electrostatic panel is a good example, because it limits the treble at moderate 75-80 dB SPL, transparency gets lost when played too loud.

Something similar is true for a lot of speakers using silk dome tweeter, where the limit is quite often around 85-95 dB SPL.
These can even be easily damaged if high-level measurement signals are played back through them.
There are few tweeters around that can stand more than 5-10 Watts effective power for longer than a few 100 milli-seconds.

Therefore measurement level should be in a moderate range, the higher the level (over a certain value) the lower the quality of the result.

On the other hand, if the level is too low noises will disturb the room decay recording.
The longer sweep helps to bring the noise down.

Setting the level is part of the measurement process and described in the Realizer's manual.

 

[Richter Di]

But I simply point out that right here on day one minute one of my getting started with this YouTube tutorial instruction video set, I'm considerably off-put by what they've provided. I'm sure I will learn from it and make use of it, and the whole concept is terrific. But I'd certainly like to provide them with this user's feedback.

I would recommend to not give them feedback at the moment. Obviously the videos are useful for us even if thy are not perfect. I guess Smyth are at their limit what they can cope with. So I am very happy that they are doing videos at all. Giving feedback would maybe mean they stop with the videos frustrated with our negative feedback. At a much later point in time when things run smoothly and the company is having enough cash flow, we can start to help make better videos.

The alternative would be someone of us with an A16 does the videos once more and posts them on his own channel.

 

[Kiritz]

Depends on the music. If it's stereo to 5.1 then there's no real advantage over the A8 except usability.
If it's also Pure Audio Blu Ray ( https://www.pureaudio-bluray.com/ ) with immersive music then the A16 would be king.

Though it seems that many of those Pure Audio Blu Ray are in Auro 3D, and it doesn't look that much promising at the moment that the A16 will ever be able to decode Auro 3D (it's not a hardware but licensing problem...)
At the moment it can only decode Dolby formats up to Atmos 9.1.6.

I think DTS-X will follow some time in the future, the A16 is already prepared for DTS-X (modes are implemented, speaker layouts etc.) but absolutely not for Auro at the moment.

Since the Smyths brothers come from DTS afaik I think they will get the license soon.

Thanks, Audiohobbit!

Yes, I think mostly what I expect to listen to is either stereo recordings or 5.1. I initially bought the A8 because I had moved to a house with a small listening room, too small and poorly proportioned to be a great listening room for my floor standing speakers and subs. If the room couldn't be made much better, maybe I could emulate a better room. Maybe I could also listen to quad or 5.1 recordings without buying all the additional equipment. And I also wanted to see if I could emulate the aural qualities rooms with much higher end equipment than I can afford in them, by making PRIRs. It's not easy to find dealers or others with rooms in which to take the measurements, but I was able to create a PRIR at AIX and also several other spots with really high end speakers and acoustics. I've been pleased to be able to almost recreate the experience of listening to music in several of these rooms via my STAX and the A8.

I do find that I still prefer not having to wear a headset to listen. It does feel a bit cut off, despite the "out of the head" experience. So I now have a house with a reasonably sized listening rooom and have done some treatments to the room making big improvements. I don't use the A8 as much as I used to. I also bought a pair of KEF LS 50 "wireless" for my office. I set them up about 6 feet apart, dialed in a sub, and find listening to Qobuz and Tidal via audirvana and the KEFs is a great source of musical satisfaction for me. I highly recommend these speakers for detailing, imaging, bass, and general tonal qualities. So I have several options now.

Still, I am intrigued by the possibilities of the A16. At this point I'm not too disappointed that I actually wasn't the full kickstarter backer I thought I was! This gear will only evolve and improve over time. I will be very interested to follow what happens with the A16 over the next year or two, how the bugs are worked out and new capabilities are incorporated into the firmware, etc. Then I can decide if I want to make the move and buy one. P.S. I would recommend the services of Jeff Hedback, who does a remote acoustic analysis of listening rooms and then provides recommendations for remediation. He is sensitive to the cost issue, and can provide a range of alternative treatment suggestions depending on your budget. My room was not too bad to start out with, but after spending a bit of time and money it is a much more pleasing place to sit and listen in.