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Smyth Research Realiser A16

Discussion in 'High-end Audio Forum' started by jgazal, May 7, 2016.
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  1. Takeanidea
    They have betrayed their customer base with this action. Pre order means we should get it before retail sales. I've Facebook messaged the company pleading with them to not do this. They've not replied. As a business model, it beggars belief....
     
    valleynomad likes this.
  2. SergioPOE
    Are you sure about that? It doesn't make sense to me that the Realiser should care what the specific angles are. It should simply capture and then reproduce whatever room you capture. Not to mention that different rooms will have slightly different setups.
     
  3. SergioPOE
    You're not alone, but it is what it is and there's damn little we can do about it except complain in some online forum... Life goes on
     
    m8o likes this.
  4. phoenixdogfan
    On the other hand, it's smart business. If the preorders have to wait while they replemish their cash flow, so be it. If they continue this model, they might be able to produce new units for new customers for $4k and mix in satisfying the people who got this thing at a bargain basement price. It encourages me, personally, b/c it means if I cough up the $4k, I might not have to wait 3+ years additionally, while some of the kickstarter/preorder people very well may.

    And it also may give them the CF they need to start a Realiser/exhange/cusstomer service dept.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
    Eich1eeF likes this.
  5. Sonic Defender Contributor
    I agree, the company was definitely desperate for cash flow so that move, as crappy to backers as it is, may just make sure that the company survives. I can't know this, but the move seems like a move that they had to do as opposed to wanting to do. I am sorry for the backers, but REALLY relieved this wasn't vaporware, and at times following the thread I was worried it was headed that way. Glad to be wrong.
     
  6. JohnEW
    "We will begin shipping Realiser A16 this week". Was the update on 12th Aug. Has any Kickstarter backers been told to expect delivery from the first shipment yet?. Or E-Mail to confirm shipping address?.

    This is pure speculation and no evidence to back this statement up, but could it be the first batch of Realiser A16's are going to companies who are placed mutable orders, possibly BBC, or Surrey University or other commercial outlets that Kickstarters/Prepaid customers are unaware of. Or Audio magazines for reviews. Building up a reputation for the Realiser A16 will be more important to the business than handing out A16's to participants that will not make the company any profit.

    No disrespect to "GOT THE SHAKES" for purchasing a A16 at the full price, but look how quickly a A16 became available when he was prepared to hand over the cash. How many commercial companies are prepared to do the same to get the A16 ahead of the competition?.

    Because I cannot believe any commercial company would be prepared to wait 9months to a year for their turn in the queue.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  7. Camano
    1) If these are really cancelled early kickstarter orders that they have refunded, then they have the right to reclaim those funds.
    2) If they're cancelled preorders they've refunded, then they're out of order, so to speak.
    3) If they're selling a certain percentage of production at retail to raise funds to further operation, then I'm not happy either, but I'm a lot happier than if they go out of business.

    I'm a June 2017 preorder - probably #500 and something...

    KIm
     
    jgazal and Richter Di like this.
  8. Got the Shakes
    No disrespect taken, and you are exactly right. They still have the headstand and 2U models listed as being available in limited quantities in their website. I’m sure the promise with all of those units is the same as what happened with mine. If you pay the full price then the A16 ships next day.

    One of the things that I wondered was that if they really can only test and ship 10-20 units a week, exactly how many of those go to customers that backed the Kickstarter campaign or preordered directly through Smyth (like I did)? Some of those units have to go to Gilles customers, and some I’m sure will be held for retail customers. Unfortunately that doesn’t leave a ton of units weekly to fill the 300+ KS orders and however many preorders they have. Maybe I’m wrong in my speculation, and maybe a month or two down the line they find a way to ramp up to 30 units a week.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
    JohnEW likes this.
  9. teacher1000
    I was emailed by James on Monday to confirm address & contact details. I haven't heard any details about shipping though.
    I'm in the 40s on kickstarter

    Also, James' email to me was in fact as a reply to an email I'd sent him, with no previous reply, just under a year ago
     
  10. audiohobbit
    As I tried to point out earlier, I think this is a misconception.
    If I'm not completely wrong then it is as follows:
    The Realiser records the speaker just where it is. So for example in a 7.1 system your right surround speaker SHOULD be somewhere to your right, and a little bit above your head but this is not a must. You can (mis)place the speaker to ANY position and it will be recorded at that position. Right surround signals while playing back will then be routed to that virtual speaker and if it was in the wrong position while making the PRIR, it's your problem, the Realiser will just route it there.

    In the A8 there are entries for azimuth/elevatiin angle of every speaker but they are just for INFORMATION (for you) where that speaaker has been while recording the PRIR, the Realiser doesn't do anything with these numbers.

    The important angles are the look angles for the head tracking, they have to match the angles that are entered in the Realiser, normally 30 degrees, you can reset them or use the headtracker to record your actual look angles while recording the PRIR. If those two angles (horizontal) don't match than the derotation doesn't work properly when using the headtracking, meaning a virtusl speaker would move a little when you turn your head.

    This is for a normal PRIR creation of a 5.1 or 7.1 system.

    As someone wrote in an earlier post it could be possible that the Realiser can interpolate between 2 speakers (the same as it does when doing headtracking) and then you could move one virtual speaker to another virtual position between those 2 real speakers, but at the moment I'm not sure if this is possible (can s.o. point to this in the manual?) because then the headtracking may get out of range (not sure about this)
     
  11. JohnEW
    Found this snippet of detail that the first pre-order batch was 100 units.

    Pre-sale Offer: US$1450 + shipping + taxes

    This represents a 25% discount on the estimated online retail price of US$1950 + taxes + shipping. A maximum of 100 Realiser A16s are available under this special time-limited offer. This offer will close when either 100 deposits have been submitted or on the 31 December 2016, whichever is soonest. Please read our Terms and Conditions before you apply to our pre-sales deposit scheme.
     
  12. sahmen
    I think James Smyth's pecking order for shipping is fairly straight-forward now. We have a 3-tier system:

    Tier 1. $4000 - cash, paid in full:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]




    Tier 2. KS Backers:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Tier 3. Pre-orders

    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    In other words, it is capitalism at its finest,
    Don't get me wrong. I totally get the argument according to which the Smyths must resort to such tactics in order to stay financially afloat, so that they can successfully fund all the deliveries eventually... In a way, one cannot fault them if they've adopted this three-tier system because they're indeed that desperate for cash...

    And yet here are my causes for concern :

    On the one hand, if they're indeed that desperate for cash, then prioritizing Tier 1 transactions (the Instant-cash-for-instant--delivery group) could itself be a precarious strategy, since generating enough cash to fund the rest of the deliveries, would itself depend on their finding enough buyers who are willing and able to buy the A-16 at this latest price point, to make the entire strategy viable. One important question here is whether there are enough buyers out there, for such a niche product, whose purchases would help the Smyths to fulfill this requirement smoothly...Also where do possible increases in costs associated with Brexit and the talk about "recession" fit into this program?... I do not know the answer to that, but let's proceed

    There is also, on the other hand, a different potential risk related to this approach, if they become successful at selling many A-16s at the $4000 instant delivery price... They might just get so excited about maintaining the momentum--that of the immediate financial windfall of selling the A-16 at that price-point-- that they could be tempted to slow down deliveries at tiers 2 and 3 in favor of boosting the numbers and sales of A-16s at Tier 1...

    While I am not implying that they would necessarily resort to such dirty tricks, I am just recognizing the fact that the temptation is just human (especially when one is desperately strapped for cash, and if that is indeed the situation of the Smyths), and that, were that to happen, we would not have any means, as backers or pre-ordering customers, of knowing any different... We do not have many privileges of oversight in this process, if any at all, which is why being made to wait in line as a KS backer or pre-ordering customer sucks so much, all of a sudden...

    Hey, I do want this strategy--or whatever plan the Smyths adopt to see this delivery phase out--to succeed, and even succeed spectacularly, as long as, it accomplishes its final goal of delivering the product to every backer and pre-ordering customer, in a timely fashion (i.e. if the "timely delivery train has not already left the station).

    I also want the Smyths to succeed, because it is the only way they can support this product (which is still not entirely ready for prime time yet), and push it to fulfill its true technological potential and promise.

    I just hate to find myself at the wrong end of a trickle-down shipping policy, waiting for a product I paid for in full, nearly two full years ago... Trickle-down scenarios always suck for everyone, except for those who can afford the reap the benefits at the top of the food chain.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
    JohnEW likes this.
  13. Richter Di
    While I am very happy for @Got the Shakes it makes me crazy to hear that:

    Really! So when you offer cash they start talking, but they haven`t answered a single email, Kickstarter message, Facebook message or comment?
    I think this highly appropriate and chatting all day via Facebook Messenger means you can not concentrate on sending you backers the units.

    And again, while I am happy for @Got the Shakes I feel betrayed.

    I have an alternative theory. The mother company is sending the Smyth’s a monthly check. After deducting their total costs they use the rest of the money to send out the Kickstarter units and and preorders. The money is just enough to package and send 10 to 20 units per week.
     
    valleynomad and VerloK like this.
  14. illram
    I have always found James very responsive. About everything other than when I am getting the Realiser, of course. (E,g, technical questions, he has always been very responsive to me.)

    As far as people getting early Realisers for full price, I think this is just the coincidence of those cancelled orders which people like Got the Shakes are paying for happened to be at the front of the queue. This is what James told me more or less when he offered me the same deal when I asked about taking someone's place for a second unit. It may be the case that if someone else decided to try what Got the Shakes did, they won't be so lucky as the next cancellation might not be that high in the queue. Just my thoughts, if I were proven wrong and it was just a full retail ticket to the front of the line, that would be sort of sucky.
     
  15. Got the Shakes
    I’m not even sure I’m happy for me lol. In some ways it feels like rewarding Smyth Research with my hard earned money to essentially expedite something that I feel like should have already delivered. Honestly I think I would have waited if I had any sort of concrete sense of where I was in the preorder list and what a realistic time frame was. I basically paid to avoid uncertainty, but I’ll admit it does feel a little dirty to have done so.

    It probably took from 11am to 7pm my time to get everything sorted including James sending me the final invoice to pay at about midnight his time. It’s too bad that they didn’t respond to people throughout the campaign as they did to me yesterday, because I think that would have gone a long way to reigning in some of the chaos of the past 3 years. Hell, I sent them more than one email in the past few years and they all went unanswered.
     
    Richter Di likes this.
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