[Maestroso]

HS are the money people. They provided the "angel financing" hence their name.

In order to make money, you need to sell something. Believe it or not ...

 

[phoenixdogfan]

You are right. Thus, I stand corrected. Nevertheless, I would imagine them having to pay a per unit fee nonetheless. Let's just simply hope that the silence is not due to some financial bottleneck. Now wearing my glasses again, which makes me a bit more hopeful . The darkest hour is just before the dawn.

Been 3 weeks and not a peep. Only announced they passed after Giles spilled the beans. Financial bottleneck (Can you say Ossic? I bet you can!) is the most probable reason.

 

[Fox1977]

Been 3 weeks and not a peep. Only announced they passed after Giles spilled the beans. Financial bottleneck (Can you say Ossic? I bet you can!) is the most probable reason.

On the other hand, if Gilles knew that A16 was granted with certification, he must have gotten this information from Smyth Research. If they didn’t want it leaked out because of financial issues, they wouldn’t have told him.
If they were really short of money and not planning to deliver the A16, why would have they even paid Dolby to get certified?

If they were to shutdown the project, those who ordered via KickStarter could simply lose their money (because technically it’s not an order but a funding for which they get a reward when/if the project goes to term), but all the others who preordered directly via Smyth Research or a reseller could legitimately ask for their money back, and that would become a big problem for SR, and maybe for Heavenly Sound also since they signed a partnership.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

On the other hand, if Gilles knew that A16 was granted with certification, he must have gotten this information from Smyth Research. If they didn’t want it leaked out because of financial issues, they wouldn’t have told him.
If they were really short of money and not planning to deliver the A16, why would have they even paid Dolby to get certified?

If they were to shutdown the project, those who ordered via KickStarter could simply lose their money (because technically it’s not an order but a funding for which they get a reward when/if the project goes to term), but all the others who preordered directly via Smyth Research or a reseller could legitimately ask for their money back, and that would become a big problem for SR, and maybe for Heavenly Sound also since they signed a partnership.

And on the other, other hand, you can't get blood from a turnip. As for them going through the motions, I have no doubt they hope and intend to deliver, and if they are lacking financing, they're no doubt scrambling like mad to find some. Doesn't mean they'll be successful, if that be the case, however. Which means they may well follow Ossic and a host of other kickstarter ventures and go belly up when it comes time to deliver the product.

 

[Got the Shakes]

And on the other, other hand, you can't get blood from a turnip. As for them going through the motions, I have no doubt they hope and intend to deliver, and if they are lacking financing, they're no doubt scrambling like mad to find some. Doesn't mean they'll be successful, if that be the case, however. Which means they may well follow Ossic and a host of other kickstarter ventures and go belly up when it comes time to deliver the product.

At this point, I am wondering where they would potentially having financial issues with the A16 that would cause them to not deliver? According to the January 2018, February 2018, and March 2018 updates, they had all the PCBs, metalwork, and plastic parts on hand (unless I'm misunderstanding what they posted in those updates). So that would leave which expenses left for them to get the A16 shipped? Boxes and the cost of shipping itself? Now I could certainly see the cost of actually shipping the units being quite high since they're shipping worldwide and I'm not sure they have much of what constitutes a distribution network. Not sure how many units Smyth need to ship, but I'm sure that could be $10K+ in shipping costs. Ossic seemingly failed by not having nearly enough cash on hand to be able to produce 22,000 pairs of headphones, but it seems unless they've been lying the whole time about the production process that we're well beyond the expense of that with the A16.

One thing I did notice when looking at the old updates is that when they had the PCBs on hand that they had all passed the prelim testing, but that they couldn't be "fully tested until the final firmware was completed". It makes me wonder if that's where we are at this point since they may not have been doing the final testing until they got Dolby certification. Of course like everything thing with this project they could stop all of our speculation with come actual communication, but this deep into things no reason to think that will ever change.

 

[Fox1977]

If they were simply communicating about what is going on and what is left to do before shipping, there wouldn’t be here all this turmoil where we all try to figure out why shipping hasn’t started yet and why we are not even asked to confirm our postal address.
Maybe they are sadists getting their kicks in letting us in the dark and they have every week a team meeting laughing about what new theory we have about them...

 

[phoenixdogfan]

At this point, I am wondering where they would potentially having financial issues with the A16 that would cause them to not deliver? According to the January 2018, February 2018, and March 2018 updates, they had all the PCBs, metalwork, and plastic parts on hand (unless I'm misunderstanding what they posted in those updates). So that would leave which expenses left for them to get the A16 shipped? Boxes and the cost of shipping itself? Now I could certainly see the cost of actually shipping the units being quite high since they're shipping worldwide and I'm not sure they have much of what constitutes a distribution network. Not sure how many units Smyth need to ship, but I'm sure that could be $10K+ in shipping costs. Ossic seemingly failed by not having nearly enough cash on hand to be able to produce 22,000 pairs of headphones, but it seems unless they've been lying the whole time about the production process that we're well beyond the expense of that with the A16.

One thing I did notice when looking at the old updates is that when they had the PCBs on hand that they had all passed the prelim testing, but that they couldn't be "fully tested until the final firmware was completed". It makes me wonder if that's where we are at this point since they may not have been doing the final testing until they got Dolby certification. Of course like everything thing with this project they could stop all of our speculation with come actual communication, but this deep into things no reason to think that will ever change.

Did they write they had all the parts for all the units, and had assembled and tested every one of them? I think their communications on this matter are open to interpretation. As we all should know from seeing how these kickstarters go, getting a fully developed product and producing that product are two different matters. As hard as the first part of the process is (development), the second part (production) is the real killer. I won't believe this is a real product until I see it in the hands of reviewers, and see it being measured and tested by them.

 

[Got the Shakes]

Did they write they had all the parts for all the units, and had assembled and tested every one of them? I think their communications on this matter are open to interpretation. As we all should know from seeing how these kickstarters go, getting a fully developed product and producing that product are two different matters. As hard as the first part of the process is (development), the second part (production) is the real killer. I won't believe this is a real product until I see it in the hands of reviewers, and see it being measured and tested by them.

They have said this from what I've skimmed through:

"All the PCBs have arrived and the main processing boards have all been tested. Nevertheless we will only be in a position to fully test all the PCB hardware when the firmware and user interface are both completed." - January 2018

"All the head-stand and 2U metalwork has now arrived from China and we have started mounting accessory parts onto the front panels of the HS model" - February 2018

"All the PCBs have now been programmed and tested with the exception of the head-tracker. There have not been any significant problems so far on any of the boards" - March 2018

"All of the production plastic parts have arrived and we’re assembling and testing the binaural microphones and set-tops. Head-trackers will be assembled once the pcbs are programmed and tested" - March 2018

"Assembly of the production units continues, and testing of the A16 is ongoing and will continue throughout the Dolby certification process" - October 2018

"Over the past month we’ve been working to resolve issues related to Dolby’s certification requirements, testing and removing bugs from the current firmware, assembling and testing complete A16 units" - November 2018

"We appreciate how frustrating this is, especially when the final product is within touching distance and we have assembled and tested A16s ready for shipping." - February 2019

Granted they don't specifically say that the have assembled ALL of the units, but according to the February 2019 update they have "assembled and tested A16s ready for shipping". Does this mean all of them or only 10 units? That is certainly open to interpretation, but the the previous updates sure make it sound like they had all the parts on hand needed for all of the units as of March 2018. That certainly doesn't make this any less frustrating, but I think it at least provides some hope that the issue isn't financial relating to procuring the parts needed for assembly.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

They have said this from what I've skimmed through:

"All the PCBs have arrived and the main processing boards have all been tested. Nevertheless we will only be in a position to fully test all the PCB hardware when the firmware and user interface are both completed." - January 2018

"All the head-stand and 2U metalwork has now arrived from China and we have started mounting accessory parts onto the front panels of the HS model" - February 2018

"All the PCBs have now been programmed and tested with the exception of the head-tracker. There have not been any significant problems so far on any of the boards" - March 2018

"All of the production plastic parts have arrived and we’re assembling and testing the binaural microphones and set-tops. Head-trackers will be assembled once the pcbs are programmed and tested" - March 2018

"Assembly of the production units continues, and testing of the A16 is ongoing and will continue throughout the Dolby certification process" - October 2018

"Over the past month we’ve been working to resolve issues related to Dolby’s certification requirements, testing and removing bugs from the current firmware, assembling and testing complete A16 units" - November 2018

"We appreciate how frustrating this is, especially when the final product is within touching distance and we have assembled and tested A16s ready for shipping." - February 2019

Granted they don't specifically say that the have assembled ALL of the units, but according to the February 2019 update they have "assembled and tested A16s ready for shipping". Does this mean all of them or only 10 units? That is certainly open to interpretation, but the the previous updates sure make it sound like they had all the parts on hand needed for all of the units as of March 2018. That certainly doesn't make this any less frustrating, but I think it at least provides some hope that the issue isn't financial relating to procuring the parts needed for assembly.

Even supposing everything they've written is accurate and veracious, and all they need to do is flash the firmware, do some final tests, box every unit up and ship out the orders. What then? Do they have sufficient financing to be a going concern? To take new orders and produce product on a timely basis? To service existing units in the field? To maintain the website? To recruit PRIR providers? To Run the Realiser exchange?

Lots and lots of questions here. Lots and lots of things people are being asked to take on faith, and, as far as I can see, zero real results (for customers) to date.

 

[sahmen]

I personally find things to be rather simple on this front ATM. Beginning from late last year, and practically this whole year, I have seen the updates from the Smyths shrink progressively in number and size to extremely anemic, and more and more irregular . 2-3 sentence affairs, as compared to those more ample ones from earlier last year. The worse the dwindling pattern has grown, the more the anemic updates have created the suspicion (at least in my mind) that there is a whole lot more that the Smyths are not telling us about the progress of the project, and that what they were not saying in those updates, i.e. what they were concealing from their buyers, was a hell of a lot more important and serious than what they were saying...

So here we are today...It's reality check time. The Smyths are supposed to be on the verge of crossing a major finish line, and yet who is convinced? It is simply not normal for any KS manufacturer to be this quiet, when they're supposed to be very close to shipping their product... It just isn't, and nothing adds up. Besides, other signs are not very encouraging... No-one on the list of backers and pre-orders has had their shipping address verified as yet; the realizer exchange site still looks almost as cold and dead as a ghost town. and as lifeless as a cemetery. Even Gilles Gérin, the man who always has the inside scoop, has gone MIA (not that any of this is his fault!)... It goes without saying that the more this phase of Smyth radio silence continues, the more the suspicions and frustrations are going to grow.... This is all perfectly normal, IMHO.


In other news, here's the Snail Realizer A-16, coming to a home theater near you... ..no wait, to a theater in your home... allegedly....

one inch at a time... one year at a time, one yearly inch at a time... allegedly!

 

[Sanctuary]

On the other hand, if Gilles knew that A16 was granted with certification, he must have gotten this information from Smyth Research. If they didn’t want it leaked out because of financial issues, they wouldn’t have told him.
If they were really short of money and not planning to deliver the A16, why would have they even paid Dolby to get certified?

If they were to shutdown the project, those who ordered via KickStarter could simply lose their money (because technically it’s not an order but a funding for which they get a reward when/if the project goes to term), but all the others who preordered directly via Smyth Research or a reseller could legitimately ask for their money back, and that would become a big problem for SR, and maybe for Heavenly Sound also since they signed a partnership.

This can't be entirely accurate, or at least those of us who preordered the units, and were not backing any Kickstarter project would have to have their money refunded at least. I never sent money in to help anything Kickstarter related by the time I bought in. And to be honest, I'm actually less worried about the loss of $1,500 than I am them not even being released at all. I recently acquired an A8, and the crap is mind blowing with just 7.1. But who knows how long my used unit will even last? Could be another ten years, or it could be one, and then there would be nothing to replace it.

I can't go back to Dolby Headphone either for movies. It's just "ugh" sounding now, where as before I thought it was "pretty decent" for most things. I did not realize just how suspended the center on it really is. After acclimating to the A8, where a center sounds like a legit center, Dolby Headphone still sounds relatively like a center on the X axis, but it's horribly high up on the Y axis. There's also no true distinction across left, center and right, or rather it's a very narrow gap, and the "rear" channels basically come from a 110 degree angle most of the time, which is still not right and it's far too congested. For video games, I'm kind of "whatever", and would likely not really be putting wear on the A8/A16 for those since DH is perfectly good for that, but for movies, especially those I'm buying on 4K discs? Totally can't use DH again.

In fact, the A8 is so good, that I would actually probably spend $4,000 just to have a second A16 sometime in the future. If they even produce more than the initial batch anyway...

 

[castleofargh]

Dolby Headphone still sounds relatively like a center on the X axis, but it's horribly high up on the Y axis.

that's also usually my impression. any headphone with a signature I enjoy, will give me a mono sound coming from way up.
if you can EQ that headphone easily, there is this method

where you try to get the center with the right FR for you(should correct the altitude), and then hope that the rest of the Dolby model works OK when starting from that signature.
as you have the A8, you clearly won't find any benefit from this, but maybe you'll be curious to try for the sake of trying to salvage your headphone, or just .

 

[Sanctuary]

Not sure what you mean about salvaging my headphones. The problem isn't the headphones (DT880 and HD800), but the virtualization. I use a sound card or external box for DH, not a headset that has it baked in. Watched the video though, and that's very interesting.

Also, don't know if it's just me, but the guy in the video sounds a lot like John Malkovich. Not exactly the same, but very similar. Mainly in his cadence.

 

[johnn29]

I can't go back to Dolby Headphone either for movies. It's just "ugh" sounding now, where as before I thought it was "pretty decent" for most things. I did not realize just how suspended the center on it really is. After acclimating to the A8, where a center sounds like a legit center, Dolby Headphone still sounds relatively like a center on the X axis, but it's horribly high up on the Y axis. There's also no true distinction across left, center and right, or rather it's a very narrow gap, and the "rear" channels basically come from a 110 degree angle most of the time, which is still not right and it's far too congested. For video games, I'm kind of "whatever", and would likely not really be putting wear on the A8/A16 for those since DH is perfectly good for that, but for movies, especially those I'm buying on 4K discs? Totally can't use DH again.

In fact, the A8 is so good, that I would actually probably spend $4,000 just to have a second A16 sometime in the future. If they even produce more than the initial batch anyway...

I found the same thing after trying speaker virtualization tools rather than algorithmic ones. The algortimic ones just don't get the center right. Dolby Headphone is the best of the bunch for a center channel - especially the Cinema preset. The aritifical ones can generally get left/right localisation right because of ITD but the pinnae shape are critical in lateral localisation. I also find the Dolby Center is quite close - so when you're using a monitor or laptop it sounds real - but when you're sat far back it just doesn't cut it.

Have you heard of an open source project Impulcfer? It's from a Head-fi member here, check out the thread. Exact same principle as the Realisers - binural mics record an exponential sine sweep from loudspeakers. That's then used to virtualise speakers and headphones are compensated for. It's by FAR the most realistic sounding HRIR I've ever heard. You'll need to use a laptop/PC as it's not a dedicated device. In the future the author is also adding virtual room correction (reduce RT time, frequency response correction etc.). Disadvantages compared to the potential of the A16 - no head tracking, no Atmos. Windows is limited to 7.1 but head tracking could come in the future.

 

[Fox1977]

This can't be entirely accurate, or at least those of us who preordered the units, and were not backing any Kickstarter project would have to have their money refunded at least. I never sent money in to help anything Kickstarter related by the time I bought in.

That's actually what i said !!

If they were to shutdown the project, those who ordered via KickStarter could simply lose their money (...), but all the others who preordered directly via Smyth Research or a reseller could legitimately ask for their money back