Smyth Research Realiser A16

[krismusic]

I don't own one yet! I have to wait until next May like the other Kickstarter backers. A8 owners can correct me but it seems that simply capturing a room is relatively straightforward but then you can get into a lot of corrections/manipulations. The A16 has a webpage-based setup so it may be much easier.

Ah got you. I think I had better stop sitting on the fence before I get splinters!

 

[krismusic]

Just signed up on Kickstarter after a very friendly email from Stephen.

 

[yates7592]

I'm obviously missing something here. On the Smyth website the A8 is advertised at $2900-ish. The A16 is an upgrade right? But on the Kickstarter page it says an estimated retail price of nearly $1600 for the A16??

 

[dsperber]

  I don't own one yet! I have to wait until next May like the other Kickstarter backers. A8 owners can correct me but it seems that simply capturing a room is relatively straightforward but then you can get into a lot of corrections/manipulations. The A16 has a webpage-based setup so it may be much easier.

Capturing a room (i.e. producing a PRIR for that listening environment for your specific ears) is indeed straightforward, although it's usually done by someone else controlling the Realiser while you sit perfectly still, then "turn left", "turn right", etc.  The most important and critical piece is that you want to be sure you have the microphones inserted properly in your ears, and that for purposes of PRIR measuring that the head-tracker is operational.
 
Following this you also need to produce an HPEQ (unrelated to measuring the room listening environment which produces a PRIR), which is another measurement file that is created specifically for whatever headphones/amp you are going to be listening back through.  This is a quick 30-second task that you can actually do yourself, e.g. when you get back home or whenever you receive a Realiser of your own. Once you create the HPEQ for your headphones/amp, you use it along with any number of environment-specific PRIR files to produce the "library of listening environments" you can now "listen to" when playing back any source material through the Realiser and a particular PRIR/HPEQ selection.
 
I don't know why any "corrections and manipulations" would be required after producing a PRIR, assuming you are in a real listening environment with multiple real speakers arrayed around you when you created that PRIR.  The only special tricks are reserved for trying to create a simulated multi-speaker "surround" setup when you only actually have one or two real speakers.  This is actually done by a special technique during the measurement process itself (as you carefully rotate your seating position relative to the few speaker(s) you actually are using, to simulate surround-speaker angles), rather than with any post-measurement adjustments actually using the PRIR.
 
It's really a very simple process.

 

[LajostheHun]

I noticed it has HDMI input as well, so can I use my multi format music player like my Oppo to play back DVD-A, SACD or BDs in full 5.1 via the HP's? Say after I measured my own HT?

 

[dsperber]

I noticed it has HDMI input as well, so can I use my multi format music player like my Oppo to play back DVD-A, SACD or BDs in full 5.1 via the HP's? Say after I measured my own HT?

Correct.
 
The original A8 first released in 2009 (like my #0001 A8) had only 8-channel analog RCA inputs and didn't contain imbedded codecs.  So you had to do your own upstream decoding in your AVR which hopefully had 7.1 multi-channel pre-amp output which you then fed to the 7.1 analog inputs of the original A8. There is also a corresponding set of 8-channel analog outputs supporting "straight-through analog bypass mode" when the Realiser is powered off.  My original Yamaha RX-V863 (which is an analog-centric AVR) was part of my 2009 setup.
 
The analog-input A8 had an analog-to-digital stage to handle this converting 7.1 channel analog input to digital, with the following SVS processing occurring in digital domain.  The output of SVS destined for stereo headphones was delivered both (a) still in 2-channel digital directly to the optical output (if you wanted to feed your own external DAC, which fed your headphone/amp), and (b) to its own built-in DAC and amplifier and stereo analog headphone outputs (both L/R RCA on the rear, as well as 3.5mm stereo minijack on the front).
 
In 2012, an upgrade to the A8 added HDMI input (and matching HDMI pass-through output), thus eliminating the analog-to-digital process entirely.  Instead, discrete multi-channel LPCM was expected to be delivered via HDMI from an AVR or other source device which could both decode and deliver discrete multi-channel LPCM via HDMI.  As it turns out, the Oppo players are pretty much the only consumer device I've heard about which have this capability (which is also why I bought an Oppo 103 in 2013, when I also bought a second A8 Realiser which included the HDMI feature).  So decoding was still required externally upstream, but discrete decoded multi-channel LPCM could at least now be accepted into the A8 via HDMI.
 
In fact that's how I have my 103 set up, delivering video-only via HDMI1 output to my Yamaha RX-V867 AVR. I deliver audio-only decoded LPCM via HDMI2 output to the HDMI input of my A8.  So playing 2-channel CD music, or 5.1/7/1 multi-channel BD/DVD discs with either lossy/lossless audio are all delivered decoded digital LPCM to the A8 for listening.
 
I also use have my home DVR feeding the rear HDMI input of my 103. This allows HDTV DD5.1 audio to also be decoded to LPCM by the 103 and also delivered to the A8.
 
So having an Oppo player with its two external HDMI inputs, and its two HDMI outputs, this represents the IDEAL source device feeding the A8... which did not have its own built-in codecs.  This avoided requiring firmware upgrades to the A8 as new audio codecs come out, as it is simply the job of the Oppo AVR to do this heavy lifting and deliver decoded LPCM. 
 
This subject has been addressed with the A16, which now contains built-in decoding support for all of the modern lossy/lossless audio formats, including the very latest 16-channel varieties.  So you can simply now connect any HDMI source device directly to the A16 if you want.
 
Certainly if a new codec is relevant that's not supported by the Oppo but is supported by the A16, you'd use that same cabling approach and configure the Oppo to deliver the still-encoded HDMI audio from Oppo to the Realiser via "bitstream".  But otherwise, for standard 5.1/7/1 audio that utilizes an Oppo player and an A16, you now have the option of just delivering everything "bitstream" and letting the A16 handle it all, always.  Or, for codecs handled by the Oppo you also have the option of letting it do the decoding to LPCM and deliver it that way to the A8/A16.

 

[LajostheHun]

Awesome, thanks.

 

[pervysage]

Would the realiser be able to replicate bass from a subwoofer? Obviously the physical feeling of bass shaking you wouldn't happen but how would a headphone like the HD800 (which is considered bass light) reproduce that bass? I'm assuming the realiser would apply some EQ to the headphones?

 

[henriks]

I was missing the subwoofer also at Canjam, still Love the sound and speaker to headphone comparison.But haveing a descent home cinema setup, how do i defend(to the wife) spending 1010£ on a16?

 

[krismusic]

I was missing the subwoofer also at Canjam, still Love the sound and speaker to headphone comparison.But haveing a descent home cinema setup, how do i defend(to the wife) spending 1010£ on a16?

Maybe sell it to the wife that you would be able to listen without disturbing her?
If you really like the Resliser you might get rid of all those cumbersome speakers. This is assuming that you don't have a fabulous dedicated set up in a soundproof room. Which you might. In which case I would think that the Smyth would be less attractive.

 

[teacher1000]

I was missing the subwoofer also at Canjam, still Love the sound and speaker to headphone comparison.But haveing a descent home cinema setup, how do i defend(to the wife) spending 1010£ on a16?

In my case my wife came with me to hear it. Sold!

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Of course JRiver MC 21 handles all the current codecs, outputs as LPCM through your computers HDMI, so if you want an OPPO is redundant if your have the latest version of the A8.

 

[esimms86]

 
Of course JRiver MC 21 handles all the current codecs, outputs as LPCM through your computers HDMI, so if you want an OPPO is redundant if your have the latest version of the A8.

Thanks phoenixdogfan. That answers my question.
 
Esau

 

[Evshrug]

If you don't use the head-tracker, it will always seem that sound is coming from the speakers exactly as they were when you made your PRIR calibration, which presumably was right in the sweet spot of the listening environment. 

---

All things considered, and if some compromise must be made, THE most important factor to getting truly the maximum effect and realism with Realiser technology is to get your own PRIR measurement made from a reasonable (if not superb) listening environment, as it will reflect your own ears and auditory structure of your head and thus playback virtualization will be optimal for your brain's hearing system.  Head-tracker adds some virtual realism, but having your own personal PRIR for ANY listening environment is really what it's all about.

My apologies for shortening the quote, but thank you for the excellent description. Hopefully, some day, I'll be able to get a measurement in just such a studio. I worry that such places will charge a premium to do so... Just like audiologists vary on charging a modest fee ($25 or free) or an exhorbent fee ($75 each ear) to get ear impressions for CIEMs and hearing aids done. Still, I can also understand charging money for getting a six-figure speaker setup recreated by a $1600 piece of equipment and a $1,400 headphone.

I still wonder the same question though... Is there a way to "tare" or set a "starting position" for the head tracker? The point of doing this is so that my Fiancé and I can both "sit" in the same virtual sweet spot while physically we sit beside eachother, and have the head tracker work?

I'm obviously missing something here. On the Smyth website the A8 is advertised at $2900-ish. The A16 is an upgrade right? But on the Kickstarter page it says an estimated retail price of nearly $1600 for the A16??

I'm not the expert here, but Smyth Research has stated that several of the hardware components formerly used are becoming hard to acquire (thus raising price), while technology advances has allowed for lower price and several upgrades (like computer technology falling in price).

 

[dsperber]

I still wonder the same question though... Is there a way to "tare" or set a "starting position" for the head tracker? The point of doing this is so that my Fiancé and I can both "sit" in the same virtual sweet spot while physically we sit beside eachother, and have the head tracker work?

The A16 has TWO head-trackers (i.e. two of the device that attached on top of your headphones sitting on your head, as well as two of the receivers that sit on top of the display screen), designed to support two independent and simultaneous users.
 
You will thus both have your own individual optimal experience, as if you each were right back in the same prime optimal single seat in the measured listening environment when each of you had your "ears calibrated" individually, and each of you thus produced your own unique PRIR for that same room.  And of course each of you has created your own unique HPEQ corresponding to whatever headphone/amp each of you is listening through.
 
The A16 will be independently processing each of your two separate PRIR/HPEQ's combinations uniquely and simultaneously, feeding each headphone output path uniquely and simultaneously.  If the two of you choose to make use of the particular common PRIR you each created uniquely from one specific listening room, then you will each be reliving the sound of that room that each of you heard, as you both listen to that room through your unique PRIR/HPEQ.  Or, you could each choose a PRIR that corresponded to two completely different listening environments (i.e. for a different "measured room", if one of you has your own particular favorite room sound room that is different from one the other of you prefers).  And to facilitate true complete independence of where the virtual speakers sound to each of you should you move your head, each of you will be looking into your separate head-tracker.
 
In other words, the A16 provide a completely dual simultaneous experience for two users. Each is listening to a unique PRIR/HPEQ combination, and each has the virtual speaker sound field controlled by a unique head-tracker.