Smyth Research Realiser A16
Mar 3, 2018 at 5:20 PM Post #2,086 of 16,011
Marketing, word of mouth, affordability, convenience and being first all matter more to the general public. The A8 and A16 don't really seem to be meant for anyone other than enthusiasts anyway, so I don't know if it really matters. That much.
 
Mar 3, 2018 at 9:04 PM Post #2,087 of 16,011
I record binaural linear pcm files with microphones in my own ears and still the sound field collapses, so head tracking is mandatory to me. The option to not add crosstalk is also mandatory to me.

The number of measured speakers and the quality of the interpolation algorithm are also important to me.

Only Smyth and Choueiri demonstrated the performance of head tracking and interpolation algorithms for impartial reviewers.

Impulse responses from different units of the same headphone model can vary, so I find important to measure the units I own.

PRIR and RIR convolutions are filters and I don’t know if all products with such kind of filtering have the same level of spatial (probably they have) and, mainly, tonal transparency (I am not so sure). And the latter is more difficult to assess in short demos.

Nevertheless, I am still looking forward to see hassle-free ways of calculating my own HRTF to a high level of precision if not exactly. I think such achievement is critical to mass production and to push the boundaries of the current state of the art.
 
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Mar 4, 2018 at 5:21 AM Post #2,089 of 16,011
As an Ossic - former - development backers I am facing the reality that Ossic seems not to have the funds to even produce the units they promised to the Kickstarter backers https://www.kickstarter.com/project...rst-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t/comments
So there is where my fear comes from.
Thanks for that! Still waiting for my pair, too - ordered in July of 2016.
Your link contains a reference to wingacoustics.com, also quite interesting. Hoping they make it to RMAF.
 
Mar 4, 2018 at 6:53 AM Post #2,090 of 16,011
Smyth Research is perhaps the one and only project I will ever back on Kickstarter. They have a track record, they've always been extremely transparent on what their processor does and doesn't, it was a no brainer. Of course, their are many backers annoyed because they want it yesterday but for me, I have no doubt this is just a matter of time, let these guys do their job.
But, 2.7M backed for this vaporware headphone that will never come out, this is sick! I would particularly be dubious of projects that look too good to be true, like those headphones that even the largest players in the field today could not dream of designing...
 
Mar 4, 2018 at 2:27 PM Post #2,091 of 16,011
I pre-ordered in June, 2017, with the expectation that the “Realiser” would be delivered in August. This delivery date came and went with Smyth & Company showing almost complete disregard for its customers. Those of you who continue making excuses for this behavior would fit right in with any fringe cult. Wake up folks! We’ve got taken by Smyth UN-Realized!!!
 
Mar 4, 2018 at 2:50 PM Post #2,092 of 16,011
I pre-ordered in June, 2017, with the expectation that the “Realiser” would be delivered in August. This delivery date came and went with Smyth & Company showing almost complete disregard for its customers. Those of you who continue making excuses for this behavior would fit right in with any fringe cult. Wake up folks! We’ve got taken by Smyth UN-Realized!!!

Great first post.
Maybe you should inform yourself what a Kickstarter is before you jump into one.
 
Mar 4, 2018 at 3:08 PM Post #2,093 of 16,011
I pre-ordered in June, 2017, with the expectation that the “Realiser” would be delivered in August. This delivery date came and went with Smyth & Company showing almost complete disregard for its customers. Those of you who continue making excuses for this behavior would fit right in with any fringe cult. Wake up folks! We’ve got taken by Smyth UN-Realized!!!

Not a great way to introduce yourself to the community.
 
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Mar 4, 2018 at 3:11 PM Post #2,094 of 16,011
Smyth Research is perhaps the one and only project I will ever back on Kickstarter. They have a track record, they've always been extremely transparent on what their processor does and doesn't, it was a no brainer. Of course, their are many backers annoyed because they want it yesterday but for me, I have no doubt this is just a matter of time, let these guys do their job.
But, 2.7M backed for this vaporware headphone that will never come out, this is sick! I would particularly be dubious of projects that look too good to be true, like those headphones that even the largest players in the field today could not dream of designing...

One of the problems is that the Kickstarter initial videos show the product as already working, then a year later you find out that at best the reactions of listeners was based on some model running on a PC and the product shots were concept art. The Smyth isn’s bad from that point of view (though let's be blunt: it wasn't good); the Ossic video was basically sci-fi.
 
Mar 4, 2018 at 3:15 PM Post #2,095 of 16,011
I pre-ordered in June, 2017, with the expectation that the “Realiser” would be delivered in August. This delivery date came and went with Smyth & Company showing almost complete disregard for its customers. Those of you who continue making excuses for this behavior would fit right in with any fringe cult. Wake up folks! We’ve got taken by Smyth UN-Realized!!!
Welcome, but don't be such a negative person.
And while you are in USA why not take a trip in April to CanJam LA and talk to Smyth Research and while you are there can hear the A16 if you haven't already.
 
Mar 4, 2018 at 3:17 PM Post #2,096 of 16,011
Great first post.
Maybe you should inform yourself what a Kickstarter is before you jump into one.
Sorry sir. You are the one who is uninformed. Apparently you didn’t realize that after the Kickstarter campaign ended, Smyth Unrealized (SU) started selling pre-orders and SU misled hundreds and perhaps thousands of customers.
 
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Mar 4, 2018 at 3:18 PM Post #2,097 of 16,011
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Great first post.
Maybe you should inform yourself what a Kickstarter is before you jump into one.
Pretty much what I was going to say.

One of the problems is that the Kickstarter initial videos show the product as already working, then a year later you find out that at best the reactions of listeners was based on some model running on a PC and the product shots were concept art. The Smyth isn’s bad from that point of view (though let's be blunt: it wasn't good); the Ossic video was basically sci-fi.
That is a valid point.
 
Mar 4, 2018 at 3:31 PM Post #2,098 of 16,011
I pre-ordered in June, 2017, with the expectation that the “Realiser” would be delivered in August. This delivery date came and went with Smyth & Company showing almost complete disregard for its customers. Those of you who continue making excuses for this behavior would fit right in with any fringe cult. Wake up folks! We’ve got taken by Smyth UN-Realized!!!

Great first post.
Maybe you should inform yourself what a Kickstarter is before you jump into one.

Not a great way to introduce yourself to the community.

Welcome, but don't be such a negative person.
And while you are in USA why not take a trip in April to CanJam LA and talk to Smyth Research and while you are there can hear the A16 if you haven't already.

I do not understand your negativity towards @TedTimmis. In the old days we greeted everybody entering our little community with
"Welcome to HeadFi. Sorry about your wallet."

For my part, I feel with TedTimmis. For me a delivery date is a promise.
If I broke such a promise in the company setting I was in until 2012, this would always have had consequences.
Having companies in our industry not respecting their promises is for me a big disappointment. A year of not delivering a product is in my opinion too long. As I said before. If they would have asked me if I want my A16 in May 2017 as it was presented in Paris, or if I want a better one somewhere in 2018, I would have choosen May 2017. For me this is a question of communication.
 
Mar 4, 2018 at 5:05 PM Post #2,099 of 16,011
Welcome, but don't be such a negative person.
And while you are in USA why not take a trip in April to CanJam LA and talk to Smyth Research and while you are there can hear the A16 if you haven't already.
Thank you for the welcome. Although officially new to Head-Fi, I have followed this thread for a very long time. The posts have started to aggregate around three groups: Group 1 are the enablers; Group 2 are those debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin; I can summarize the first two groups as blah, blah, blah. Group 3 are those wondering what the hell is going on with Smith Unrealized. After they took our money, we’ve never heard from them. The only communications I’ve seen are rare Kickstarter posts.

Don’t you think it’s odd that Smyth Unrealized has NEVER posted on this forum even though it’s really the only active forum for its product? Odd and/or insulting. It’s time we start demanding accountability or start shopping for class action attorneys.
 
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Mar 4, 2018 at 5:09 PM Post #2,100 of 16,011
I agree with your overall point, but you are selling Smyth short. If the promised online exchange for room measurements delivers, A16 users will be able to have a library of virtual listening rooms.

...

I also have some doubts about how well using a photo will work for a lot of people.

...

There may be a reason that Creative was not demoing that feature at CES!

In other words, I'll believe it when I hear it. I've heard the A-16 and I believe. :)

Thank you for considering my overall point, and putting your own out there! I also heard the A16 and all of Creative’s HRTF’s so far, and I agree the A16 is a level above. I’ve always said in the gaming threads, the reason I liked Sennheiser Binaural, Mad Lust Envy liked Dolby Headphone, and another guy preferred Creative CMSS-3D, was because we all had different head and ear shapes. Smyth’s biggest strength on paper is it’s personalization.

In person though, I was most impressed with the transformative qualities of the Realizer, and it really opened my eyes to just how much a DSP could do. I had just recently come from a demo in the Stax room, but the Stax on the A16 totally transformed to sound like the speakers they were using. “Mad Max” sounded REALLY GOOD, and I think “out of your head” and “nice/rich/clear” sounding is more impressive with movies than surround... I really want to play a game with the A16, because movies are generally just focused in front of you with the occasional surround “effect.” I do think the Realizer will do a great job of being widely compatible, too, which is no small thing.

Back to the home theater problem though, even with 16 speaker positions, a Realizer will still be trying to recreate a room that’s trying to recreate something more transparent. IMO, the Realizer is the pinnacle of what Dolby Headphone and most proprietary surround DSPs built-in to receivers (like Yamaha or Sony) were trying to do, to the point where the Realizer + Headphone (HD 800 for me, maybe an HD 820 soon) can actually sound better than any speaker setup I could have at home, but it still can’t take full advantage of object oriented sound. A home theater is essentially a filter, even if you have an Exchange site with tons of filters those won’t become transparent to match a movie or game scene. It can still make music seem to come from speakers though.

With object-oriented audio of the past and object oriented audio in VR experiences and Dolby Atmos (et al) of the present and future, the opportunities for improvement is not what math goes into an HRTF to sound realistic, the challenges are just personalized responses and better DAC/amp hardware. You mentioned before the outer AND inner ear shape and that effect on surround... well I have two things for you to consider:

1.) How does the Smyth compensate for “inner ear architecture?”
I posit that it doesn’t, and doesn’t have to. We’re not trying to make a dummy head hear things the exact same way you do, the goal is to make your ears hear the environment the same way your ears hear the effect.

2.) How much has to be personalized to make a convincing recreation of a tone and surround effect?
I posit that each crease and bend of an ear is NOT a variable, that your ear shape remains a constant whether listening en plein air or inside a circumaural earcup. For surround to work, the variables, what needs to be personalized, is just what has happened to the sound just before it reaches your ears, or another way of looking at it is recreating what is outside of a headphone earcup. The specific shape of your nose and face effect < the shape of your shoulders < the distance and perhaps angle between the sides of your head. The acoustic absorbing abilities of your skin fits somewhere in there too. Those are much less detailed figures than an exact 3D model of your ear impression.

Creative’s solution is pretty smart (and I haven’t looked into THX’s much yet). Again, I think smartphone pictures and good software are plenty to get the necessary personalized measurements. The photos won’t be enough to quantify one headphone so they can re-tune it to make it sound like a specific speaker brand or make it truely flat... but that’s why Creative is making a headphone database where you can download a profile for specific headphones. I imagine that will be kind of like what Sonarworks is doing. Creative tends to not be flexible to allow better detailed DACs and Amps though (X7 and their soundcards with processed Optical out are the exception), which help with separation and distinguishing distance, and I’ve never seen them offer head tracking.

The puzzle pieces are an understanding of HRTF, personalized head-shape measurements, head/movement tracking, reverb and occlusion, angle of origin, and neutralizing headphones. Also, signal chain fidelity and price. Smyth’s solution masters a few of those pieces, is very good at most of the rest of those pieces, takes a halfway position about signal chain by trying to use fairly decent components but leaving digital outputs to optionally bypass the DAC/amp and leave that up to specialized discrete components, and has the highest price commensurate with being currently (but if it’s not out yet, is it current?) the best sounding solution.

I would not be surprised if Creative or someone else doesn’t release an extremely competitive option before Smyth finally starts shipping some A16’s.
 

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