Smyth Research Realiser A16

[Cecala]

This is why I was asking if you had a standalone UHD player with dual HDMI outs. You need to remove as many variables as possible.
If you did, you could omit eARC initially just to get Atmos to work period.

No I do not have such a player although I did manage to get the following info that was asked from you earlier.

You asked if,"PCM" the only available option in what seems to be an eARC sub-menu?
Below are the three options in the eARC menu:

option 1: Auto 1
Output compressed audio without change.

option 2: Auto 2
Output only compressed audio for multichannel content without change.

option 3: PCM
Always output in PCM.


BTW, I did have Dolby Digital+ on as in the video.

 

[shmau]

No I do not have such a player although I did manage to get the following info that was asked from you earlier.

You asked if,"PCM" the only available option in what seems to be an eARC sub-menu?
Below are the three options in the eARC menu:

option 1: Auto 1
Output compressed audio without change.

option 2: Auto 2
Output only compressed audio for multichannel content without change.

option 3: PCM
Always output in PCM.


BTW, I did have Dolby Digital+ on as in the video.

I would go with Auto 1 but the wording is a bit strange. I am assuming they mean bitstream and not compression.

Haven't looked at the video or checked your TV's manual so I'm not sure what exactly the Dolby Digital+ setting you mention is but make sure that it doesn't cause the TV to re-encode everything to Dolby Digital+.

 

[Cecala]

I would go with Auto 1 but the wording is a bit strange. I am assuming they mean bitstream and not compression.

Haven't looked at the video or checked your TV's manual so I'm not sure what exactly the Dolby Digital+ setting you mention is but make sure that it doesn't cause the TV to re-encode everything to Dolby Digital+.

Yes I found that strange as well.
I found this on a Nakamichi help website:
https://www.helpdesk.nakamichi-usa.com/sony-tv-2020-audio

In the lower part there is video which recommends 'auto 1' as you have.

From video:

1. AUDIO SETTINGS
Scroll left and right to see the audio settings for you TV.

Sequence:

1. Settings > Display & Sounds > Audio Output > Speakers > Audio System
2. Settings > Display & Sounds > Audio Output > Audio System Prioritization > On
3. Settings > Display & Sounds > Audio Output > Digital Audio Out > Auto 1
4. Settings > Display & Sounds > Audio Output > Digital Digital Plus Output > Dolby Digital Plus
5. Settings > Display & Sounds > Audio Output > Pass Through Mode > Auto

 

[mrmac]

I’ve also experienced some hdmi edid issues related to atmos. If I power on my 4k bluray player to insert a disc before I turn on A16, atmos won’t work. It’s also quite hard to see the difference of the Dolby audio and atmos from across the room. There is edid emulators that can work wonders.

I have a few questions for the brainpool.
In my new setup I’m using both A and B headphone amplifiers in balanced mode (works great). Is it correct that the digital outputs is unaffected? I’m planing to send this signal over aptx LL to a bedroom setup. I won’t be using head tracking for this but wonder if there is a way to disable head tracking for a specific preset? I rather not have to unplug back and forth.
I’m also using the A16 in hdmi pass through mode. Is set top and tracker meant to be on in this mode? Feels like that could be rectified in a future update.

Speaking of updates, it’s been a year since the last one…

 

[audiohobbit]

Now, I have measured my HPEQ for my closed back, JVC DX1000 phones and what I am hearing is not to good. No wow factor as yet.
I am experiencing the "in your head" syndrome listening with my phones and very little outside of the phones sound-stage.

The main question here is what PRIR are you using? One that you measured yourself in a room with real loudspeakers?
Or one of the in-built factory PRIRs or one you downloaded somewhere?
In this latter case it is just like playing the lottery if the PRIR matches your HRTF better or worse.

 

[esimms86]

The main question here is what PRIR are you using? One that you measured yourself in a room with real loudspeakers?
Or one of the in-built factory PRIRs or one you downloaded somewhere?
In this latter case it is just like playing the lottery if the PRIR matches your HRTF better or worse.

The BBC preset never worked for me.

 

[audiohobbit]

only PRIRs that were measured with ones own ears do work correctly (if there were no errors made when measuring). therefore the P in PRIR for personalised.
everything else can or can not work, but even if it works, won't be as good as a personalised measurement. sometimes they could be improved with the manLOUD HPEQ, but as I said it's a lottery.

 

[Andrew Seeley]

Not really quite the,a lottery. For instance 3dSoundShop Prirs work quite well.

Especially for me.
Though yes, personalized is the most perfect Standard to aim at.

We'll see hoe the theaters go in the coming days or week. Curious whether my prir should likely suit or unsuit most others.

The Omega Pro really is a marvel

 

[VandyMan]

only PRIRs that were measured with ones own ears do work correctly

I have not found that to be true. While BBC and Surrey ones do not work for me, the Omega Pro PRIR from 3D Soundshop is superior for me to my personal Dutch & Dutch PRIR (also made by 3D Soundshop).

 

[Andrew Seeley]

Also far superior to the standard Omega I had Made with John at 3D SoundShop, Likewise!

 

[zdjh22]

I agree with all of you, but in particular @audiohobbit has nailed it. Unless your HRTF matches that of a PRIR measured by another user or company, and your physical soundroom matches sufficiently with their studio, a well-measured (by you in your own listening room with your own loudspeakers) will be the best, where "best" means the experience you have listening through your A16 best matches the experience you have listening to your own physical soundroom.

I am a huge fan of 3DSS, and I own the original Omega 65/96 PRIR and happily upgraded to the Omega Pro 96. My posts (my long posts, sorry) around the time of the Pro 96 announcement and my review confirm that. As I said then, the Pro 96 PRIR would be sufficient for me if I had not already done PRIR measurements myself. I still use the Pro 96 PRIR more than half of the time, and counting hybrid PRIRs where I mix Pro 96 virtual speakers with my own measured virtual speakers, at least 75% of the time.

A quick story. My A16 had "new" hardware and so would only run the 2.15 firmware (until 2.17 came out). That meant that I couldn't measure my own HPEQ with the auto process without introducing strong left/right imbalance, and I hated manLOUD. I bought the Omega 65/96 PRIR at that time, and happily it came with a good (for me) HD800s HPEQ, better than the stock HD800 HPEQ. But I well remember the night that I finally decided to measure my own PRIR, despite 2.15 issues, and listening to my 2.15 PRIR + 2.15 HPEQ. What a huge difference! Totally out-of-my-head, my virtual speakers all in the correct position and distance from my head, and the room reverb just right. That night I posted my results here, put the PRIR/HPEQ on the Google Drive, and John from 3DSS promptly called and talked for a long while about the discovery - what turned out to be a microphone gain imbalance in 2.15 (see the 2.17 release notes) had the opposite effect in measured PRIRs and HPEQs, so the error balanced out.

Before you buy any PRIR, be advised that you should (as 3DSS also advises) try out their samples. Because your particular noggin doesn't necessarily have to be "average" but could be extraordinary.

I was reminded last night of how much I like my own physical listening room, all 7.1.2 of it on late-90s Henry Kloss "Cambridge Soundworks" speakers (OK, so I am an audio gourmoo, not a gourmet). I was listening to the new A24 UHD version of Stop Making Sense, but using my physical speakers not the A16. And it was awesome! I quickly found that when using my A16, I veered toward my own PRIR from the Omega Pro 96 for this piece of music. For lots of other music, I far prefer the Omega Pro 96.

I have often wondered what DSP manipulations Smyth intended to offer on their "Exchange" site that would allow you to "personalize" a PRIR you downloaded or purchased there. It's a shame it never worked out.

 

[GeorgeA]

It seems like we need a judgment of Solomon for splitting the difference for Realiser A16: own measured PRIR and other one measured by another user.

 

[castleofargh]

It's called subjectivity. Of course, speakers and room have a big impact on our experience. This hobby is almost all about obsessing over stuff that never come close to having as much impact. And of course localization and to some level, how natural it feels, is tied to our own HRTF(and other things like the room we're in when listening).
Some people will care more about one, and I would guess that at least one variable here, beside taste and experience, is simply how off something is for us in particular. If our room and speakers suck bad(or if we don't have speakers), then it won't be all that strange to really appreciate a generic, well recorded and nice sounding room. And on the other side, the farther our own HRTF is from what was used as reference for the generic impulses, the less likely we are to be happy about it.
Someone's impressions do not strictly define what others will experience.

I'm also tempted to add how many measurements we've done as a variable. IDK about others, but if I had stuck with my first attempts, I would not be very impressed with PRIRs. Just to get somewhat used to not moving the mics while doing the measurements, and to find what seems to be the best insertion, tips(for me!!!), it took me maybe 10 attempts measuring a 2.0 setup before I even bothered trying to do more. It took a bunch of attempts, and some serious deliberation between myself and I to decide which measurement I preferred and to pretend I knew how to do it again.

edit: My name's not Solomon.

 

[Cecala]

The main question here is what PRIR are you using? One that you measured yourself in a room with real loudspeakers?
Or one of the in-built factory PRIRs or one you downloaded somewhere?
In this latter case it is just like playing the lottery if the PRIR matches your HRTF better or worse.

I was using the BBC built in PRIR. I have to re-do my HPEG as it was done in a not so ideal environment together with a closed back which by itself is limiting. I could hear my computer humming in the background while measuring. I might end up for starters buying the Edition XS to improve my situation.

 

[audiohobbit]

I have to re-do my HPEG as it was done in a not so ideal environment together with a closed back which by itself is limiting

I'm pretty sure that is not the (main) reason for the "still-in-your-head" experience. I used closed backs and currently even use IEMs only, and have a perfect out-of-my-head experience, because I have a PRIR that was measured with my own ears in a good room with speakers.
BBC and Surrey in teh A16 are measured with dummy heads and it is just conicidence if your HRTF is more or less compatible with that of a dummy head.

You should educate yourself (or with help of this forum) in measuring PRIRs (the basics are not that hard) and just measure some even cheap speakers in a room (that should probably have a bit of carpet, so that it's not too reverberant (but even the reverb could be cut off in the Realiser)) so you just can get the experience how a personal measured PRIR really could sound/be located.
And I advise use headtracking, this is even better to "convince" the brain, plus one could also put some "fake speakers" made out of cardboard at the positions of the "virtual speakers".
Since our brain learned that audio sources normally remain at one position, headtracking helps a lot, at least for me.
I remember when I first tested the A8 in a demo room with speakers, initially there was no headtracking, and I was not totally convinced. After adding the headtracker, it was much better.
Finally it is also a bit of a "learning curve for the brain" to get used to the Realiser, but then, with a good PRIR (ideally a self-measured one ofc) it is a super convincing experience.
Don't know if you know the video:
Back then the Smyths demoed the A16 prototype on german "High End" trade show, and they even did a super fast PRIR measurement for the attendants, but even with these PRIRs the demo was convincing as you can see by the (genuine!) reactions of the people in the video. (I was also there so I can confirm that)