[Earwax]

Steve,
Listen, used gear forums aren't like BestBuy or even like buying from a retailer such as Headroom. You're dealing with individuals, not with a big company and the normal mode of operation is that if you try something and find that it's not suitable you turn around and resell it yourself. Even though earlier I posted that I thought that Ufo should give you a refund minus costs, that was before I read that you already filed a dispute with Paypal. I think this might have been resolved amicably, but now that you've backed him into a corner, what on earth do you expect him to do?

 

[viator122]

How do those credit card disputes work exactly, from the seller's side? Let's just say, hypothetically, the planets become misaligned, the sun begins to rotate around the earth, and somehow Amex decides that Stevie is right. Does Amex try to recover Stevie's money from Paypal, or do they just eat the cost and give Stevie his money from their own pockets?

Actually, I just found this at the PayPal website:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...ckRisk-outside

UFO, I hope you don't keep a balance on your PayPal account. It says they'll freeze the amount in dispute until it's all resolved.

It seems, however, that with both Amex and PayPal between Stevie and UFO that it will be hard and take a long time for Stevie to get his money back. He has to prove to Amex that he deserves his money back and then Amex has to convince PayPal that Stevie deserves it back.

Sounds like a headache for everyone and I doubt Stevie will be happy with the results.

 

[Jahn]

just an update on my own situation - got the starquads, and hey they sound better than the rat shack temp idea i had - so now what, am i going back to rat shack to return the adapters that I "tested out" to see if i liked them better than the starquad? um, no. they are either going to molder or used for some other project or even sold off here - but it aint worth the hassle.

of course a PPA isn't a rat shack plug. but still, shouldn't everyone go for the most hassle-free alternative available? he should have kept the ppa, then resold it here on head-fi, end of story.

 

[ipodstudio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 How do those credit card disputes work exactly, from the seller's side? Let's just say, hypothetically, the planets become misaligned, the sun begins to rotate around the earth, and somehow Amex decides that Stevie is right. Does Amex try to recover Stevie's money from Paypal, or do they just eat the cost and give Stevie his money from their own pockets? Actually, I just found this at the PayPal website: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...ckRisk-outside UFO, I hope you don't keep a balance on your PayPal account. It says they'll freeze the amount in dispute until it's all resolved. It seems, however, that with both Amex and PayPal between Stevie and UFO that it will be hard and take a long time for Stevie to get his money back. He has to prove to Amex that he deserves his money back and then Amex has to convince PayPal that Stevie deserves it back. Sounds like a headache for everyone and I doubt Stevie will be happy with the results.

Normally, the only time a creditcard company will reneg a purchase is if the buyer says he didn't receive the goods. The creditcard company will then ask the seller to provide documented proof that he sent the goods AND that they were received (signed for). If the seller can do that the credit company will not reneg the purchase. If he can't then they will.

They will not reneg the purchase because the buyer was not happy with the sound....

 

[cpw]

I bet this is a headphone compatability issue. Have you tried to plug some low Z cans into the PPA to try to recreate the problem? I bet if he tried it with some real headphones, he'd love it.
Steve's problem, not yours. He should have done his homework before purchase and his expectations about returning a product on a private party sale are so out of whack I won't waste words on them.
CPW

 

[rayofsi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpw I bet this is a headphone compatability issue. Have you tried to plug some low Z cans into the PPA to try to recreate the problem? I bet if he tried it with some real headphones, he'd love it. Steve's problem, not yours. He should have done his homework before purchase and his expectations about returning a product on a private party sale are so out of whack I won't waste words on them. CPW

i've tried the amp with my HD580s which have ~300ohms impedance and A900s with about ~40 impedance.

 

[domworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentamcolin He should resell it himself, if he has any integrety. I only suggest a refund to avoid having to deal with a winer.

i would not refund the money, to teach him a lesson. if ufokillerz refund then this buyer can do it again. ufokillerz stated that he took time just to help this buyer out. I know many sellers would just say no. so the buyer should keep the PPA and do whatever he wants with it.

 

[domworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChickenScrtchBoy He mailed you the amp, you did not agree to a refund, nor imply, nor did you express any plans to. Keep it. Free amps for all, la-la-la. They are raining from the sky. Seriously, mail it back with a nice signed certificate of enodorcement that the amp is in full, working order. Explain to Pay Pal that you sold him the amp without warrenty, and even offered to re-inspect and fix it at no cost, and a return is not needed, because the amp is perfectly fine. Make sure to include that he's scamming you, as he bought the SR-71 at the same time, and only wanted to keep one. Pay Pal should have that transaction too.

yes that is right. it is a scam. Let him fill a complaint, because he would never win it. Its a sale, not a test trial. Its not ufokillerz's fault that hes using a portable audio for a home equiment sound system. i say ufokillerz should mail it back, but he should get the money from shipping first. if not then i guess ufokillerz gets his money and the amp back, because this is childish.

 

[domworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 How do those credit card disputes work exactly, from the seller's side? Let's just say, hypothetically, the planets become misaligned, the sun begins to rotate around the earth, and somehow Amex decides that Stevie is right. Does Amex try to recover Stevie's money from Paypal, or do they just eat the cost and give Stevie his money from their own pockets? Actually, I just found this at the PayPal website: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...ckRisk-outside UFO, I hope you don't keep a balance on your PayPal account. It says they'll freeze the amount in dispute until it's all resolved. It seems, however, that with both Amex and PayPal between Stevie and UFO that it will be hard and take a long time for Stevie to get his money back. He has to prove to Amex that he deserves his money back and then Amex has to convince PayPal that Stevie deserves it back. Sounds like a headache for everyone and I doubt Stevie will be happy with the results.

this whole issue is a big headache. it makes no sense to buy something and then wanting to return it, because his cheap equiment doesnt work with a high quility equiment.

 

[viator122]

Quote:

Originally Posted by domworld yes that is right. it is a scam. Let him fill a complaint, because he would never win it. Its a sale, not a test trial. Its not ufokillerz's fault that hes using a portable audio for a home equiment sound system. i say ufokillerz should mail it back, but he should get the money from shipping first. if not then i guess ufokillerz gets his money and the amp back, because this is childish.

Well I don't know about that. I mean Stevie may be a moron and he may be rude but keeping the amp and the money means that you're stealing from him. If it were me, I'd try to get the money to ship it back, but even if you don't, pack it back in the box and send it parcel post with insurance and return receipt or delivery confirmation. Or send it FedEx bill to sender (that actually might be better). It can't cost that much either way and it keeps you firmly in the right. UFO you've taken the high road so far, stay on it.

 

[stevebeyer@mac.c]

Well guys I am new here and I have to say that in every other transaction that I have ever been involved in the seller would accept a return if it didn't work. I am a newbie so I did not know that it would not work with my set up. Concerning the auditioning the SR-71 against the PPA that was not my intent. I wanted the PPA for my computer and the SR-71 for my ipod. If you look back, I also bought a total of 3 pimeta amps in the last month. I have enjoyed them without the hiss. I also bought a set of cables from a Head-Fi member which I have never received. I did enquire about the amp and stated that I am a newbie at the beginning of the transaction. If I knew that I should have asked more questions, I would have asked. He stated this was the best amp I could buy for less than $1000. I was even willing to negotiate with the seller. I am in no possition to sell amps since I don't know the language. It has become quite apparent that I am not welcome here so I will not return. I thought this should be a friendly place not a buyer beware. For the record, I did not expect the seller to pay the shipping and I even offered him $25 for his trouble to relist. Sorry I have caused this problem for all on the boards. Would the moderators please discontinue my login.

 

[stevebeyer@mac.c]

I used the best buy and lands end as example of what a buyer would expect when purchasing equipment. I guess I am wrong and just out of my league here. My so called curt reply is that I thought the buyer would want to know ASAP so he could get it ready to relist.

 

[ChickenScrtchBoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 Well I don't know about that. I mean Stevie may be a moron and he may be rude but keeping the amp and the money means that you're stealing from him.

Not exactly, steve did send the amp, and he no long wants it, there was no implication of a refund, and Steve has relinquished the amp into the hands of ufo.

Of course it's wrong, it's grey line, it's shady, is it illegal? I don't think so. But so was what Steve did. Do two wrongs make a right? Thats for you to decide for yourself.

 

[TimSchirmer]

UFO is totally in the right here.

But...ppa best amp under 1000$?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Tim D]

Speaking as a user and not a mod (i.e. I won't legislate or watch over any transactions), IMO refund policy should be discussed before or at sale. At the same time, as a seller I try my best to *not* advertise or make claims as to performance and leave it up to the buyer to research. This does not mean I won't limit myself to say things like "this is a great headphone/amp for the money" or express my personal opinions on the item, but it is really up to your discretion on how far you take it.

I would never actively attempt to offload something or 'make a sale' by convincing a doubtful buyer. In fact I try not to do business with those in doubt since you can be asking from headache or trouble and make sure the person buying the item has done their own research and made their own mind. If there are shreds of doubt, I'll find a buyer who doesn't have any. Not sure about buying that amp from me? Perfectly fine by me, I'm not going to go to much length at all to convince you otherwise!

Having said all this, I don't know what really happened in this instance. Just speaking my opinion of not dealing with doubtful buyers or giving sales pitches.