[viator122]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChickenScrtchBoy Not exactly, steve did send the amp, and he no long wants it, there was no implication of a refund, and Steve has relinquished the amp into the hands of ufo. Of course it's wrong, it's grey line, it's shady, is it illegal? I don't think so. But so was what Steve did. Do two wrongs make a right? Thats for you to decide for yourself.

I still think that if, hypothetically, this were to go to some sort of small claims court that a judge would not look too kindly on UFO keeping the money and the amp in the end. Stevie asked not to have the amp returned under the (mistaken) impression that he was getting a refund. If he's not getting one the legal and moral thing to do is return the amp. Bill it to recipient.

 

[domworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 Well I don't know about that. I mean Stevie may be a moron and he may be rude but keeping the amp and the money means that you're stealing from him. If it were me, I'd try to get the money to ship it back, but even if you don't, pack it back in the box and send it parcel post with insurance and return receipt or delivery confirmation. Or send it FedEx bill to sender (that actually might be better). It can't cost that much either way and it keeps you firmly in the right. UFO you've taken the high road so far, stay on it.

I ment if steven doesnt pay ufokillerz back for shipping, before he ships it out, then ufokillerz should not ship out the PPA

 

[domworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebeyer@mac.c Well guys I am new here and I have to say that in every other transaction that I have ever been involved in the seller would accept a return if it didn't work. I am a newbie so I did not know that it would not work with my set up. Concerning the auditioning the SR-71 against the PPA that was not my intent. I wanted the PPA for my computer and the SR-71 for my ipod. If you look back, I also bought a total of 3 pimeta amps in the last month. I have enjoyed them without the hiss. I also bought a set of cables from a Head-Fi member which I have never received. I did enquire about the amp and stated that I am a newbie at the beginning of the transaction. If I knew that I should have asked more questions, I would have asked. He stated this was the best amp I could buy for less than $1000. I was even willing to negotiate with the seller. I am in no possition to sell amps since I don't know the language. It has become quite apparent that I am not welcome here so I will not return. I thought this should be a friendly place not a buyer beware. For the record, I did not expect the seller to pay the shipping and I even offered him $25 for his trouble to relist. Sorry I have caused this problem for all on the boards. Would the moderators please discontinue my login.

steve you have to understand this place is not a store.

 

[Mr.PD]

After reading Steve's response, it appears to me that the whole thing started from a small misunderstanding.
If it wasn't for the paypal and amex claims, I would say refund his money minus the shipping. You already have the amp in your hands, why spend more money to ship it back to Steve? I don't know how all this works with the claims Steve made through paypal and amex.

 

[domworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 I still think that if, hypothetically, this were to go to some sort of small claims court that a judge would not look too kindly on UFO keeping the money and the amp in the end. Stevie asked not to have the amp returned under the (mistaken) impression that he was getting a refund. If he's not getting one the legal and moral thing to do is return the amp. Bill it to recipient.

well you said send the amp and bill it to recipients. the recipient should pay for shipping beforce anything gets shipped out.

 

[ChickenScrtchBoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 I still think that if, hypothetically, this were to go to some sort of small claims court that a judge would not look too kindly on UFO keeping the money and the amp in the end. Stevie asked not to have the amp returned under the (mistaken) impression that he was getting a refund. If he's not getting one the legal and moral thing to do is return the amp. Bill it to recipient.

Of course, doing that would be wrong. Withhold the amp until he comes and picks it up or pays for the shipping. If he refuses to pay, the amp is his.

That whole "keep the amp" thing as a joke. Hence the la-la-la. Everything before "la-la-la" was not meant to be taken seriously, and everything after "Seriously," was what I think I would do in such a situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.PD After reading Steve's response, it appears to me that the whole thing started from a small misunderstanding. If it wasn't for the paypal and amex claims, I would say refund his money minus the shipping.You already have the amp in your hands, why spend more money to ship it back to Steve? I don't know how all this works with the claims Steve made through paypal and amex.

Sure, but how hard was the amp to sell in the first place? Will ufo be able to sell it again easily, is it worth the trouble of reselling it to get out of the trouble of dealing with Steve?

 

[RYCeT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.PD After reading Steve's response, it appears to me that the whole thing started from a small misunderstanding. If it wasn't for the paypal and amex claims, I would say refund his money minus the shipping. You already have the amp in your hands, why spend more money to ship it back to Steve? I don't know how all this works with the claims Steve made through paypal and amex.

Yeah, Steve crossed the lines by reporting it to paypal and amex. If I'm Ufokillers, I'll be pissed off too especially since ufo didn't have any intent to defraud the buyer, sold a working amp and willing to spend more time to solve the problem. Since Steve has choosen to go through paypal, I'll say let paypal solve this. I won't return the amp or give any refund unless paypal told me to do so.

 

[viator122]

I may be wrong but I believe that bill to recipient means I just drop it off at FedEx and they collect the money from the recipient when they deliver the package. That's what I suggested UFO do. That way if he wants it he'll get it and if not you can have the amp back with documentation that he refused delivery.

EDIT: Documentation stating Stevo refused delivery would be helpful in negotiating the PayPal/Amex dispute.

 

[RYCeT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 I may be wrong but I believe that bill to recipient means I just drop it off at FedEx and they collect the money from the recipient when they deliver the package. That's what I suggested UFO do. That way if he wants it he'll get it and if not you can have the amp back with documentation that he refused delivery.

I won't do that, what if there's something wrong happens with the amp such as it get broken during shipment.

 

[ChickenScrtchBoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viator122 I may be wrong but I believe that bill to recipient means I just drop it off at FedEx and they collect the money from the recipient when they deliver the package. That's what I suggested UFO do. That way if he wants it he'll get it and if not you can have the amp back with documentation that he refused delivery. EDIT: Documentation stating Stevo refused delivery would be helpful in negotiating the PayPal/Amex dispute.

Isn't that a COD (Cash on Delivery)?

 

[viator122]

The amp could get broken just as easily if it's shipped bill recipient as if it was paid for in advance.

COD is paying for the item when it's delivered (item cost + shipping cost). Bill Recipient means the recipient pays the shipping cost.

 

[rayofsi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim D Speaking as a user and not a mod (i.e. I won't legislate or watch over any transactions), IMO refund policy should be discussed before or at sale. At the same time, as a seller I try my best to *not* advertise or make claims as to performance and leave it up to the buyer to research. This does not mean I won't limit myself to say things like "this is a great headphone/amp for the money" or express my personal opinions on the item, but it is really up to your discretion on how far you take it. I would never actively attempt to offload something or 'make a sale' by convincing a doubtful buyer. In fact I try not to do business with those in doubt since you can be asking from headache or trouble and make sure the person buying the item has done their own research and made their own mind. If there are shreds of doubt, I'll find a buyer who doesn't have any. Not sure about buying that amp from me? Perfectly fine by me, I'm not going to go to much length at all to convince you otherwise! Having said all this, I don't know what really happened in this instance. Just speaking my opinion of not dealing with doubtful buyers or giving sales pitches.

"The way that this amp will ship is a pretty much as good as a PPA gets without spending a thousand dollars."

that was the exact wording i gave him, i never compared the PPA to another amp. i was telling him that this blackgates PPA was as good as it would get without having to dish out a thousand bucks for one thats even higher end.
I was thinking stepped attenuators, larocco diamond buffer module, custom power supply section and others when i made that statement.

 

[rayofsi]

Quote:

-----Original Message----- From: Steve Beyer [mailto:stevebeyer@tmo.blackberry.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 1:30 PM To: Raymond Tsang Subject: Re: PPA Hi Raymond, I can see that I am in with the wrong set of guys. I guess we are both stubborn but I still feel I did the right thing. I read in the list that you were going to enjoy making me work for my refund. I just thought I would let you know that it really is no work. I had to type a litlle answer to. Pay pal. Now I have to give them a chance to respond. My next step is an easy phone call to amex and they will deduct from my bill. I would think you can sell the amp to someone who better understands this stuff. I have no beaf with you but you sold me something I can not use. Good luck with you future. I see you are a student so you will need the time to study for finals.

i never sold him something that he can't use, saying that would be saying that i sent him something that just plain out doesnt work.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy ".....He says the sound is "sloppy and hissy" which sounds to me like he's describing not hiss, but rather the opaque hardness to the sound that many PPAs have. That's just the amp's flavor. There's nothing wrong with it....."

Flavor, what flavor???? This is a completelly wrong gross generalization (as usual while people is talking of PPAs) and it is not accurate at all, at least not the ones I have heard, and not mine, not even with the 5002, well in fact "opaque hardness" is not the term I would use to describe any amp I have heard to the date, don't know what you are trying to say exactly.....

BTW looking twice at the thread I have found this other, that seems ot involve a different amp and similar results, so maybe the Ipods are the main reason for that behavior or maybe the compression used...

 

[skr]

I think the key point here -- and it's probably already been raised, I haven't read all the replies -- is that this is a private transaction. Unless you clearly stated that you would accept a return, except for defective equipment, then you have no obligation to refund his money. That said, if you want to avoid a hassle with PayPal, or whatever else he used, you might want to consider just refunding his money, less expenses of course.