[GiacomoHoldini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by halb /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I listened to Kate Bush's Wuthering Heights with her high (coloratura?) soprano.

Joan Sutherland I would consider a coloratura soprano.  Kate Bush?  Mmm...maybe  not so much. 

 
A little off-topic, guys, but if you switch to component video, does that mean you can't watch in 1080p?  I thought component video was only capable of 1080i.  Or am I mistaken?  HDMI works fine for me, but the only thing I use it for is a video connection from my Blu-ray player to my monitor.  I use optical for the audio into my receiver, since mine is older and doesn't have HDMI capability.  I've been mercifully free of problems.  Some of what you guys are going through sounds like a serious headache.  I guess there are some advantages to not keeping up with the times.

 

[betavince]

Quote:

betavince,
 
Zone 2 does output analog AirPlay / HMG, but without the ability to control volume or listening modes. It looks like this may be your only option with the Pioneer VSX-1021-K receiver. Please disregard what I suggested might be possible with the other analog outputs on your machine.
 
I did have to switch the HOME MENU / System Setup / Input Setup Input Skip to OFF for H.M.G. to make it available with the INPUT SELECT buttons on the remote, and to choose the Manual SP Setup / Speaker Setup / Speaker System ZONE 2 setting.
 
All this is finally starting to make sense to me. I can't believe they haven't been able to figure out how to make more usable control systems and documentation. I guess part of the price we pay for such a low purchase price for such a sophisticated piece of equipment is in not hiring good technical writers. I mean, I have a background in digital electronics and a degree in Computer Science, and even a Master's, for crying out loud, and it's still embarrassingly difficult to get through this stuff. The troubleshooting section is especially dense.
 
I just wanna listen to some tunes, man.
 
I see you asked about treble in the RS 220 - sounds good to me as is. I listened to Kate Bush's Wuthering Heights with her high (coloratura?) soprano. Outrageous amounts of treble. Look out for an X-Curve setting in the Home Menu which will attenuate the treble if it is on. You could certainly tweak the treble throughout the Manual MCACC setup.
 
With my VSX-1121-K receiver (that has the preamp outputs,) I am going to order a switch from monoprice to allow me to use the Front pre-out terminals to run both my speakers and the RS 220.
 
None of the Speaker B or Zone 2 solutions will allow for everything to be controlled from the remote.
 
BTW, in case you haven't seen it there is a Pioneer VSX-1021 Owners' Thread here.
 
Good luck,
 
Hal

Thanks Hal.  I wholeheartedly agree about the complexity and baffling instructions in receivers today.  The first 5.1 component receiver I had was bad enough, but this one, Geez!  I thought it was just me, so I feel a lot better now.  And thanks for the tip about the MCACC tweaks and the owner's thread.  
 
And, oh yeah, I got one.   I bit the bullet, pulled the trigger, went to B&H Photo in Manhattan this morning and am now the very happy owner of the RS 220.  They’re replacing my RS 160s and I'm going to use them for not just music but also movies and TV, all controlled by a Harmony One remote.  I hesitate to give my impressions for several reasons.  My hearing is not the best, I’m a treble-head and a prime candidate for the type that cause people to rip the headphones off their heads because of piercing highs. Up until now the highest-end headphones I’ve listened to have been my (too dark) Shure SR840s, so the upgrade to the RS 220 is guaranteed to result in a lot of OMGs and Wows, rather than critical analysis.  Plus I’ve hooked it up analog from the headphone jack of my receiver.  I’m, at least for now, using a $5 Hosa TRS203 insert cable, ¼” to dual RCA plugs, so I’m not exactly optimizing the signal (I'm tired of crawling on the floor dealing with the back of the Pioneer, so those Zone 2 RCA inputs will have to wait).  Also, I’m using AirPlay over Wi-Fi and I don’t know what distortion that may introduce.  But because there’s so little info about them I’ve decided to go ahead.  Get the salt grains ready and plenty of them. 
 
Surprisingly the phones themselves don’t seem to weigh more than those of the RS 160.  I have no problem with the comfort and am a big fan of velour earpads.  I have a couple of songs that I find useful in testing headphones: the opening of Shawn Colvin’s Diamond in the Rough for treble, the aptly named The Beast by Laura Marling (because when all the instruments come in it tends to beat the crap out of other phones), and James Blake for the bass.  I’m using 320 bit rate mp3s and with the iTunes EQ off.  The first thing that has hit me is the way vocals sound.  There’s a dimension and texture that I haven’t heard before.  The placement seems just right, not recessed at all, but right where they should be.  Really impressive.  Listening to Gillian Welch’s exquisite The Harrow and the Harvest sends shivers down my spine, my ultimate criterion for a good set of headphones.  The incredibly tight harmonies she has with David Rawlings really shine, blended so well they often sound like one.  These headphones definitely bring out all the subtleties of their uncanny intertwining.  I thought I heard a slight harshness in her vocals on one track that I think either will mellow out with break-in, is a result of not adjusting the Level Control properly or my dodgy analog input setup.  But other than that everything sounds smooth and rich.   Ok on to the test songs.  First up, Laura Marling.  The Beast sounds great, the music’s powerful attack layered and distinct, the best I’ve heard it sound.  I never realized what a fine singer she is and never really liked her before, but am changing my mind.  Maybe an occasional slight harshness that again I think reflects the lack of burn in rather than a limitation of the headphones.  And the bass…well James Blake’s Lindesfarne sends shivers down my spine…again…and these really do justice to the controlled distortion and fullness of his sound.  No complaints about the bass at all.  Listening to Fall Creek Boys it sounds brand new.  OMG.  Wow.  My skull vibrates.  I think this is what you call bass extension.  On to Shawn Colvin.  This is where I could go off the rails.  I would say the treble is very detailed, not sibilant at all.  Not exactly sparkly to me, but thankfully not recessed either.  Listening to her I realize that these are very musical cans and I find myself moving with the music.    
 
I’d say these are very balanced, nothing emphasized at the expense of anything else.  They can sound intimate or expansive depending on the material.  I’ve never heard vocals this almost three dimensional before.  I feel they can handle any genre you throw at them.  Very pleased.  The only problem I’ve had is that after about 20 minutes the sound dropped out and the blue LED on the headphones flashed, which the manual indicates means the “headphones haven’t found a suitabIe transmitter”…Huh?  I moved the transmitter away from my TV and the problem hasn’t returned, so hopefully it was some kind of interference.  I wish they were discounted from the $600 retail and to be honest I don’t find them particularly attractive, unlike the HD600.  Too bad Sennheiser can’t grab some of the industrial designers from Aiaiai or Apple.  But the sound is fantastic.  And I’m not happy that the 24 hour battery life of the RS 160 is no more than 8 on RS 220, but realize a lot more technology is operating here.  Speaking of the batteries, I’ve never seen any like these before, green with silver tips.  They’re NiMH 1.2v 800mAh and marked 85AAAHCB.  The manual lists them as BA 200, HR03.  Does anyone know if I can charge them with a standard external charger? 
 
I always watch TV and movies with headphones, so now I just have to figure out how to rationalize using such wonderful audiophile headphones for watching stuff like Finding Bigfoot and Hillbilly Handfishing.
 

 

[GiacomoHoldini]

Quote:

And I’m not happy that the 24 hour battery life of the RS 160 is no more than 8 on RS 220, but realize a lot more technology is operating here.  Speaking of the batteries, I’ve never seen any like these before, green with silver tips.  They’re NiMH 1.2v 800mAh and marked 85AAAHCB.  The manual lists them as BA 200, HR03.  Does anyone know if I can charge them with a standard external charger? 

I don't know if you can charge those batteries with an external charger, but given that the headphones can be run on standard AAA batteries, there's no reason why you can't use a separate set of rechargeable batteries that you can always have at the ready, in case there isn't enough of a charge in the pair that's in the headphones themselves.  That's what I plan on doing, especially with an eight-hour expected charge life.
 
Thanks for the first impressions.  You're right, there's scant little information on these at the moment, so every little bit helps.
 
 

 

[Javierelizondo]

 

I bit the bullet, pulled the trigger, went to B&H Photo in Manhattan this morning and am now the very happy owner of the RS 220.  They’re replacing my RS 160s 

 
I have the Sennheiser's RS-180s and also the Sleek Audio SA-Six.   Both of them run on the lossless/wireless technology developed by Kleer.   By some strange reason, the very effective and dependable Kleer technology has been brought to a halt.   No new headphones are equipped with this tech anymore.

I used to link the Sleek Audio's Kleer W-1 transmitter to the RS-180s, getting a very good sounding system on the go.   I rarely used the Senn transmitter at home.

It is very likely that sennheiser is using the same "tried and true" kleer technology just with another name, because kleer name has been left out to die.   Could you try to use your 220's HPs with your 160's transmitter to check if they are compatible?    I would purchase the 220's right away knowing that they will  be compatible with the W-1 transmitter.
 


 

 

[betavince]

Quote:

I don't know if you can charge those batteries with an external charger, but given that the headphones can be run on standard AAA batteries, there's no reason why you can't use a separate set of rechargeable batteries that you can always have at the ready, in case there isn't enough of a charge in the pair that's in the headphones themselves.  That's what I plan on doing, especially with an eight-hour expected charge life.
 

That's what I was thinking also, just pop in some standard ones.  The problem I found is that the plastic doors to the battery compartments seem very flimsy.  They may be stronger than they look, but I don't think they're designed to be open and closed on a regular basis.
 

 

[betavince]

Quote:

 
 
I have the Sennheiser's RS-180s and also the Sleek Audio SA-Six.   Both of them run on the lossless/wireless technology developed by Kleer.   By some strange reason, the very effective and dependable Kleer technology has been brought to a halt.   No new headphones are equipped with this tech anymore.

I used to link the Sleek Audio's Kleer W-1 transmitter to the RS-180s, getting a very good sounding system on the go.   I rarely used the Senn transmitter at home.

It is very likely that sennheiser is using the same "tried and true" kleer technology just with another name, because kleer name has been left out to die.   Could you try to use your 220's HPs with your 160's transmitter to check if they are compatible?    I would purchase the 220's right away knowing that they will  be compatible with the W-1 transmitter.
 


 

Sadly no, they don't seem to be compatible.  First I tried to pair my 160s with the 220 transmitter with no luck.  After you asked the question I tried the reverse and that didn't work either.  I too noticed the omission of any mention of Kleer for the new model on Sennheiser's website.  I thought maybe they bought Kleer up and tweaked their technology, rather than develop their own from scratch. I wasn't aware that no new heaphones are using Kleer, but that makes sense if they did buy them out. But if it is Kleer-based, whatever changes they made removed the compatibility that the 160, 170 and 180 had with each other.  
 

 

[nonsupremous]

Too funny about that show.  I watch that too.  Speaking of movies, are  you using the digital signal with these?  How is the soundstage with movies and the bass rumble?  Or have you not been able to try that yet?
Quote:

 
I always watch TV and movies with headphones, so now I just have to figure out how to rationalize using such wonderful audiophile headphones for watching stuff like Finding Bigfoot....

 

 

[jagwap]

Kleer was a good technology a few years ago, but there are some new systems with higher data rates, so now are lossless like Kleer, but can manage 24 bits and potentially more channels.  However the big bonus is there is no liscense to Kleer to pay, and you can make your own design, not buy a module from them.  When making serious quantities that makes a big difference.
 
Also Kleer recently got bought by SMSC, which may have made a difference to the business arrangement.  I imagine it has, as SMSC are now concentrating on promoting KleerNet, a totally different multiroom wireless system, and fighting to keep the Airplay business with Apple after making a total cockup of the technology some strategic errors after buying BridgeCo, the Airplay chip supplier.
 
Anyway the upshot is I am not surprised they have changed platform as there are cheaper and better solutions out there.

 

[betavince]

Quote:

Too funny about that show.  I watch that too.  Speaking of movies, are  you using the digital signal with these?  How is the soundstage with movies and the bass rumble?  Or have you not been able to try that yet?


 

I'm using analog input.  I can't figure out any other way with the receiver I have.  I just emailed bluejeans cable to see if they could make me a better connecting cable than the one I'm using, which really isn't designed for what I'm using it for.  I'm haven't had a chance to try them with movies or TV yet, so I haven't been able to hear Bobo or Matt Moneymaker (got to love that name) do Bigfoot calls with proper audiophile equipment yet. Right now I'm staring at the headphones in the charging base counting down the 16 hours it takes to charge them.
 

 

[jalyst]

Quote:

One thing I'm really bummed about is that it seems as though it is necessary to actually turn on the transmitter at the base station - just turning on the headphones will not send a signal to the transmitter to turn it on. I hope I am mistaken about this, as I really would like to leave the transmitter across the room, but I have run a cable to have it by my listening station so that I don't have to get up and turn it back on every time it times out and goes to standby. The manual states that:

 
IIRC it's exactly the same for my RS180's...
It's one thing I find a bit annoying, shame they haven't changed that for the 220.
 
Quote:

I have a few customers with Sennheiser RS-170's and RS-180's who were annoyed by the transmitter turning off after 3 minutes, so I came up with a modification which solves this problem.  I installed a small MCU which actually monitors the blinking LED and turns the box back on when it goes off.  It can also put the transmitter back in "multiple receiver" mode if it gets set to "single receiver" mode accidentally.  If you are interested in this let me know.

Sounds mildly interesting...
I'm in Australia, is it possible to buy something like that here?
 
Quote:

<SNIP>

 
I don't suppose you also own the Senn. RS180, & can compare them to it?
 
Thank-you!

 

[jalyst]

Quote:

Sadly no, they don't seem to be compatible. 

 
Aw bummer!
 
Quote:

Kleer was a good technology a few years ago, but there are some new systems with higher data rates, so now are lossless like Kleer, but can manage 24 bits and potentially more channels.  However the big bonus is there is no liscense to Kleer to pay, and you can make your own design, not buy a module from them.  When making serious quantities that makes a big difference.
 
Also Kleer recently got bought by SMSC, which may have made a difference to the business arrangement.  I imagine it has, as SMSC are now concentrating on promoting KleerNet, a totally different multiroom wireless system, and fighting to keep the Airplay business with Apple after making a total cockup of the technology some strategic errors after buying BridgeCo, the Airplay chip supplier.
 
Anyway the upshot is I am not surprised they have changed platform as there are cheaper and better solutions out there.

 
Fascinating. Thanks for the insights....
I hadn't been following the company behind Kleer for some time.
So SMSC also make KleerNet, which is what Apple's Airplay uses?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by betavince /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Right now I'm staring at the headphones in the charging base counting down the 16 hours it takes to charge them.

Sounds like you need... the Powerex MH-C9000!
One of the best smart chargers on the planet...
I did a bucket-load of research at the time before settling on them.
There may be better options now, but they're def. right up there.
It only does four AA's or AAA's at once, but it's programmability is powerful.
They don't do C & D, but there's mods out there to rectify that.
Or just buy another that also does C & D, or focuses on them.

 

[betavince]

Quote:

Sounds like you need... the Powerex MH-C9000!
One of the best smart chargers on the planet...
I did a bucket load of research at the time before settling on them.
There may be better options now, but they're def. right up there.
It only does four AA's or AAA's at once, but it's programmability is powerful.
They don't do C & D, but there's mods out there to rectify that.
Or just buy another that also does C & D, or focuses on them.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm a little hesitant to put the batteries in any external charger because of the way they look and how they're described by Sennheiser, making it seem like they're not the standard issue rechargeables.  I think I'll be fine after the initial charge, as long as I put them back on the base when not in use.  
 

 

[Lewcifer]

Quote:

Joan Sutherland I would consider a coloratura soprano.  Kate Bush?  Mmm...maybe  not so much. 

 
A little off-topic, guys, but if you switch to component video, does that mean you can't watch in 1080p?  I thought component video was only capable of 1080i.  Or am I mistaken?  HDMI works fine for me, but the only thing I use it for is a video connection from my Blu-ray player to my monitor.  I use optical for the audio into my receiver, since mine is older and doesn't have HDMI capability.  I've been mercifully free of problems.  Some of what you guys are going through sounds like a serious headache.  I guess there are some advantages to not keeping up with the times.

I think component does 1080P, but what it doesn't do is HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection - think of it as DRM like the Sony CD debalce of about 5-6 years ago)...which HDMI does, although I've used component before and never had a problem with something not playing due to lack of HDCP.

 

[GiacomoHoldini]

Quote:

I think component does 1080P, but what it doesn't do is HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection - think of it as DRM like the Sony CD debalce of about 5-6 years ago)...which HDMI does, although I've used component before and never had a problem with something not playing due to lack of HDCP.

 
I double-checked the manual on my BDP to see if I was remembering correctly, and in order to get 1080p resolution, I have to connect using HDMI.  Connecting using component video will only result in 1080i resolution.  In looking at it again, I can see that all that really tells me is that my player doesn't output 1080p signals using component video, not that component video can't carry 1080p signals, although I had assumed the latter when I first read it.  (My player is an early-generation Sony, for whatever that's worth.)
 


Quote:

Kleer was a good technology a few years ago, but there are some new systems with higher data rates, so now are lossless like Kleer, but can manage 24 bits and potentially more channels. 

 
And yet, interestingly, Sennheiser chose to go with a 16-bit model, which could put off the hi-res devotees. 

 

[jagwap]

 
Quote:

 
Aw bummer!
 
Fascinating. Thanks for the insights....
I hadn't been following the company behind Kleer for some time.
So SMSC also make KleerNet, which is what Apple's Airplay uses?

Not quite.  KleerNet is a new multiroom wireless system, which SMSC bought but not from Kleer.  It's just branding.  On first examination it looks quite good.
 
Airplay is done by the BridgeCo chipset, and is a proprietary system for Apple.  SMSC bought BridgeCo before it was finished.