[cravenz]

Quote:

It is funny you mention that! Since getting the IE'8' I rarely listen to the AKG's for the exact reasons you mention! I am grateful as well for your description of the JH13's. I do like the idea of them but each time I keep thinking, is it worth that much more money than what I have with the senn's, I think to be honest I am done with new purchases for a while. I enjoy the sound both the IE's and  Stax give me and that will do, The AKG's just do not get any listening time I am afraid!

Would love to know how you find the sound of the Stax as I'm not sure if I should look at it or even orthos for that matter.

 

[ianmedium]

Quote:

Would love to know how you find the sound of the Stax as I'm not sure if I should look at it or even orthos for that matter.

I love the Stax, maybe it is my hearing but I find them very similar in many ways to the IE'8s, very musical. They do have a little more transparency and treble tingle (can't think of another way to describe it!) but overall I would say that if you like the way IE'8s approach music you would also like the Stax!
 
There is also something about Stax. I tried to describe it to someone in a PM recently, it is almost other wordly in a way, They engage the listener on an emotional level that I have not heard with other headphones, except the IE'8s which come so close it is not worth even bothering with the difference.
 
If I had to nail it I would say the Stax is more a visceral experience and I love it for that, if you want to see Jazz or classical or intimate female vocals really shine IMHO the Stax are the way to go, but again, the senn's are so close that it is not even worth really trying to differentiate I feel. Which for me is about as high a praise I can give the Senn's ( and I am no fanboy, I have not been enamoured with Sennheiser products for a long time!)!

 

[HONEYBOY]

Quote:

"so if you going to ask me,is the jh13 technically better than home setups and universals?i will say definetly.  if you are going to ask me if the jh13 is more enjoyable than the ie8 and destroys it in everyway?i will disagree….strongly."
@midoo1990,
I appreciate your candor and the additional insight you’ve provided.  I for one am extremely content with my IE8.  I know its strengths and appreciate that it cannot go to some places where Customs can reach as you have so stated.  It is very enlightening to know just how much of a difference there actually is between the two kinds and that a universal can actually best a custom in some areas, like soundstage.  Thanks again.

Here's a thread I created just over a year ago which deals with some of the things you mention: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/429275/are-custom-iem-s-overrated
@music_4321,
Thanks for the link.  More info to crunch on.

Indeed, the forthright manner with which Mido1990 expresses himself is one of the qualities I admire an appreciate about him. By the way mido1990 I read every sentence of your impressions with ardent interest. Your impressions were helpful and then some. I've often entertained the thought of going customs and now that my expectations are in check, I feel that they may be a worthy investment down the line.
 
The transient speed and consequent black background  of the JH 13s that you speak of is a quality I'll truly love. Decays on the IE8 last longer than what I perceive to be realistic so the background is not entirely black or clear but they are rather natural and pleasant to listen to. In fact, one of the reasons I slightly prefer the IE8 with the Sony X than the touch 2G is because of its slightly cleaner transient response and blacker background. The touch 2G and IE8 has the greater soundstage expanse while the X and IE8 gives a better sense of air around and between the instruments.
I'm pleased to know that the JH 13 doesn't share that metallic trait to the treble like most of the other BAs I tried.

 

[HONEYBOY]

Quote:

I love the Stax, maybe it is my hearing but I find them very similar in many ways to the IE'8s, very musical. They do have a little more transparency and treble tingle (can't think of another way to describe it!) but overall I would say that if you like the way IE'8s approach music you would also like the Stax!
 
There is also something about Stax. I tried to describe it to someone in a PM recently, it is almost other wordly in a way, They engage the listener on an emotional level that I have not heard with other headphones, except the IE'8s which come so close it is not worth even bothering with the difference.
 
If I had to nail it I would say the Stax is more a visceral experience and I love it for that, if you want to see Jazz or classical or intimate female vocals really shine IMHO the Stax are the way to go, but again, the senn's are so close that it is not even worth really trying to differentiate I feel. Which for me is about as high a praise I can give the Senn's ( and I am no fanboy, I have not been enamoured with Sennheiser products for a long time!)!

I too found the Stax rather similar to the IE8. The baby stax and the IE8 both have a salient midbass and both are fairly dark but the baby stax has a bit more treble energy than the IE8 still. I found both phones to have an unforced, natural way of presenting the musical details to the listener . The stax as you mentioned were a bit more transparent with a wider dynamic range and faster transient response. The IE8 to me had more bass and treble extension. The baby stax bass however, was better defined/resolved and much faster. Image specificity and instrument separation were better on the Stax with the IE8 sounding a bit more diffused. The headstage of the IE8 was more impressive to me as it reproduced a more convincing sensation that the presentation was happening outside of my head.
 

 

[midoo1990]

 
Quote:

Indeed, the forthright manner with which Mido1990 expresses himself is one of the qualities I admire an appreciate about him. By the way mido1990 I read every sentence of your impressions with ardent interest. Your impressions were helpful and then some. I've often entertained the thought of going customs and now that my expectations are in check, I feel that they may be a worthy investment down the line.
 
The transient speed and consequent black background  of the JH 13s that you speak of is a quality I'll truly love. Decays on the IE8 last longer than what I perceive to be realistic so the background is not entirely black or clear but they are rather natural and pleasant to listen to. In fact, one of the reasons I slightly prefer the IE8 with the Sony X than the touch 2G is because of its slightly cleaner transient response and blacker background. The touch 2G and IE8 has the greater soundstage expanse while the X and IE8 gives a better sense of air around and between the instruments.
I'm pleased to know that the JH 13 doesn't share that metallic trait to the treble like most of the other BAs I tried.

thanks my friend,much appreciated.
 
if you want to get a taste of how fast the jh13 is,ck10 is in the same level...speed wise.
 
ie8 decay is a bit weird,it extends in space more than it should and there is a plasticky echo that is especially apparent in trance and ambient.i dont find the ie8 black,not even close.
jh13 has the most realistic treble i have heard.nothing i heard comes close.Treble on the jh13 should be the benchmark for all other headphones and iems.it sounds  nothing like BAs in this department or Dynamics,its another breed

 
Another thing that shivers me when listening to the 13s,is the razor sharp imaging and how well it portrays instruments.i mean by portraying instruments,the "correct size". basically with the ie8 or others,you hear the sax, guitar,piano.... but you cant imagine its size in space or you cant feel its physical appearance.thats exaactly what i hear/feel.its very hard to put into words what i mean.
imaging is superb.everything feels engraved in space,the only one that comes close to the jh13 in imaging is ck10.you can call the ck10 imaging an etch while the jh13  engraved.thats the closest i can describe it.
 
airness department winner is the ie8.as i said "floating and light" is what i would use to describe the ie8.Not to mean that the 13s are dry,oh no on the contrary.but the ie8 is unique here.
 
Bass: bass is pretty magnificant on the jh13,this is ie8 biggest weakness. jh13 bass is very very tight to the verge that you feel it is like a balloon filled with air and wants to explode,but doesnt.very accurate,tight and natural.
But be aware.dont listen to the IMO gross exaggeration that "OMG, i never heard such a bass texture in my life!!" thats BS.
bass is a bass,its not like i was listening to different thing on my previous iems.
 
Transparency:excellent.the ie8 will sound muddy and very dark in comparison.The only iem that surpasses the jh13 in transparency is the ck10,but i suspect its because of the tilted treble.its not like the jh13 is dark,if the ck10 transparency is 100%,the jh13 would be 96%.
 
Detail:very detailed in a natural way.again the ie8 falls short...badly.the ck10 has the same level of detail but in an unnatural manner,in a way that is aggressive and strike you in the face with the level of detail.the jh13 blends naturally in the music.the ie8 ommites,yes ommites some details from the music.some fine details are not presented in the ie8 unless you want to go deaf.
............................................................
 
i can go on and on about the jh13 and i was going to make a thread to compare it to universals but i feel there is no point because there is nothing the universal can do that come close to what the jh13 does,except how i feel about the "light" feel of the ie8.
 
i only made the above comments because when i was looking for comparisons between universals and especially ie8 and jh13,i didnt find any,so i am trying to help who is in this situation that is hesitating to go jh13 or not because i myself was in the exact same position.
 
HoneyBoy,i assure you,you will not be dissapointed and i think you had enough universals like me and the next logical step is jh13.you will be amazed but remember,it is not like you were listening to rubbish(a.k.a ie8),ie8 holds its position imo for its unique sound.maybe i am biased towards sennheiser,but i say this in all honesty.ie8 was the most iem i enjoyed listening to.I know and you all know that technically,many universal are better than the ie8 BUT what saves ie8 ass is its unique tonality.
 
if money is no object ,then the jh13 is 150% worth it and i know that you will not regret it.But as i am a student,i cant say that money is no object and thats the ONLY caveat with me and the price of jh13.if it is a bit cheaper then i can safely say that they are 150% worth it.
i believe it could end your search for the perfect sound HoneyBoy and honestly,i will not buy anything else right now or for a very long time.i cant imagine anythin that can sound more natural than the jh13.i know that the term"i cant imagine" is used alot here ,but this is the first time i say  that it is very hard to imagine anything will improve upon the jh13 except if the soundstage became more bigger like headphones which to my understandings,the jh3a does.
 
the only purchase i could consider in the future is jh3a.
 
sorry for the long post and i hope i helped you and others who want to venture from universals.and i will say it again,if money is no object or you dont care about price/performance ratio,then the jh13 is 150% worth it.
 
take care.
 

 

[CEE TEE]

midoo1990, cravenz, HONEYBOY...you are having a discussion of absolute interest to me and in such an easy-going manner.  One of the best threads I have seen on Head-Fi.  Easily.
 
I have been tempted to try out something more detailed...what am I missing?  RE0's just didn't have enough bottom end. That's why I'm here now.
 
The only other things I was thinking of buying are the JH16's or SM3.
 
But I worry about the SM3's "FOTM factor" and the lack of Sub-Bass in the SM3 frequency response. 
 
The JH16's should have all kinds of frequency response everywhere and more than enough headroom in the bass dept.  BUT:  $$$$ for JH and then the whole fitting process...
 
So, if I want to compliment the IE8, maybe I should try the CK10?  Or if I really like my IE8's do I even need to do this?
 
Somebody talk some sense into me.  I trust you guys.

 

[D4R]

Oh, don't be sorry at all.  Interesting several posts so far!  The impressions you've mentioned about universals/customs are rather vaulable for future buying considerations.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by midoo1990 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
sorry for the long post and i hope i helped you and others who want to venture from universals.

 

[bungsai]

Hey guys, picked up my IE8's last Friday, burned them for about 20 hours, have put another 20 or so on just listening since.
 
i thought they sounded great out of the box with the medium foams but comfort wise wasnt there.
 
My comparison track was Rylynn by Andy McKee, an acoustic guitar track.  From the onset the mid bass was totally boomy and made listening to this song uncomfortable, to the point where i genuinely didnt enjoy the song, and I'm no audiophile.  Put 8 hours on them over night and listened again on Saturday morning.  Wow.  Difference was night and day.  Treble had started to come out, soundstage had opened a bit and the mid bass was receding whilst still present. Another 10 hours the next day and this trend continued and the IE8's rendered this song perfectly to my liking (read: FUN)
 
Coming from the PFE my standards for comfort was already very high, I'm totally satisfied with everything else apart from comfort.
 
I put a set of T400's on Monday and didnt like them as i thought they pulled too much of the highs out and gave it a very dark sound.
 
I've settled on inverted T400's to keep the highs and rolled the bass up to 3.  The difference between inverted t400's and t400's on the correct way is massive, coming from the PFE i love my crispy highs.
 
Absolutely loving them - miss the comfort of the PFE, but with the inverted T400's the treble is as good as the Phonaks with a very fun bass to boot.
 
thinking about ACS customs in the future because i miss the PFE comfort and they look hot.  Curious about these Sony Hybrids too.
 
All in all, these headphones are fun.  Highs are on par with the PFE, its the ability of the song to smoothly add bucketloads of bass without being too overpowering.  The bass adjustment knob is a genius addition, it adds that extra element of flexibility in sound signature that I find immensely useful.  Inverted T400's and they sound like a PFE - present good quality bass in a moderate quantity. On setting 3 they go beyond the PFE.  5 is a bit too much for me, but definitely fun and will keep the bassheads happy.
 
My 2cents at 40 hours 
 
just want to update, mucking around at work, i was bored.  I rolled the PFE medium silicone tips (my old favourite) and stretched them out over the IE8.  most of you will know that the PFE tips are narrow in comparison to the IE8, but wider than the SE530.  
 
Anyway, the silicone is very flexible and rolled on with no troubles over the IE8.  From my understanding, when you narrow the canal you start to lose a bit of treble sparkle and have increased bass and mid quantity whilst losing a bit of quality (this is certainly what i found using the T400's).  
 
Using the PFE silicone tips, comfort is on the rise, isolation is not the same as the PFE - to be expected as the IE8 sits very shallow.  What surprised me was that treble quality has barely been diminished, and quantity is still high, in face I had to dial up the bass to 4/5 to bring the balance back.  This goes against my very basic understanding of the effects of tips on sound profile....
 
I'm very happy now though with the comfort, fit and isolation of the IE8's with the PFE silicone mediums.
 
edit - back to inverted T400's, whilst the PFE silicone mediums were comfy midbass presence suffers.

 

[yliu]

I found the IE8 not a too revealing IEM. I played 128 kbps music unamped, and it didn't sound as bad as on my X10.

 

[cravenz]

Quote:

midoo1990, cravenz, HONEYBOY...you are having a discussion of absolute interest to me and in such an easy-going manner.  One of the best threads I have seen on Head-Fi.  Easily.
 
I have been tempted to try out something more detailed...what am I missing?  RE0's just didn't have enough bottom end. That's why I'm here now.
 
The only other things I was thinking of buying are the JH16's or SM3.
 
But I worry about the SM3's "FOTM factor" and the lack of Sub-Bass in the SM3 frequency response. 
 
The JH16's should have all kinds of frequency response everywhere and more than enough headroom in the bass dept.  BUT:  $$$$ for JH and then the whole fitting process...
 
So, if I want to compliment the IE8, maybe I should try the CK10?  Or if I really like my IE8's do I even need to do this?
 
Somebody talk some sense into me.  I trust you guys.

I'd say from all the reading, the SM3 seems to be a good choice for detail, but the sound signature is more forward than the IE8s. There are some users out there who have used both and posted their reviews on the SM3 thread I believe.
 
I can't comment on the 16s as I haven't read much on them/
 
Don't trust us, trust yourself

. A lot of the time, we buy on impulse, we buy on a whim and fancy and many times we find ourselves looking back and wondering, did we even need it in the first place? Quite often, the answer is no. However, if you have the extra cash to splash, and no bills to worry about, why not? And you can also sell it further down the road for a small loss if you don't like it.
 
Personally, if I had the money, I wouldn't mind trying out several pairs, but would I want to own that many? No. I don't want to keep switching around all the time. The IE8s have been the most involving and fun experience I've had. There perhaps are others that may be better, but by how much? I don't fancy a $300 punt on it, that's too much for me and even then, I'm already happy with what I have. Some people strive for perfection, I'm content with what I have. In fact, I'm more than content and I don't see the need to go out there and spend more. But if I had the money, I'd try customs, not another universal. How much we are willing to pay is very much dependent on how much we value the difference in sound quality. To be honest, I wouldn't even mind keeping to a nice universal with custom tips for a good seal.
 
I think your question of asking whether you need it kinda answered the question itself

. I guess there are many ways to reply to that, but I think the only real important thing is, are you happy, are you enjoying what you have already? It doesn't mean we can't strive for more, but it just means we need to be more practical at times weighing in cost and value factors. Enjoy whatever you choose, the moment it weighs on your mind, it might just indicate a raise in expectations and wants.

 

[cravenz]

Quote:

 
thinking about ACS customs in the future because i miss the PFE comfort and they look hot.  Curious about these Sony Hybrids too.

There is a whole thread of reviews on ACS customs and the IE8s, and I also wrote a review on it in my own signature if you need a reference to perhaps have an insight on what it might be like.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

interesting,i will begin reading the thread.finally we agree on something

.
um3x is probabaly the worst iem that stepped to my ears,i swear i enjoyed my skullcandy titan over it a year and a half ago.
 
i payed close to $1600 on jh13 including shipping back and forth because of the fitting,wrong colours...which is not worth it in my books.
if i see the ie8 at a good price in the FS forum,i will snag it.
 

Ouch! Ouch!!
 
EDIT: BTW, you can add your comments to the thread I mentioned earlier, and perhaps give the thread some new life and others may benefit from your experience. After all, this is only an IE8 thread.

 

[raymondu999]

Isn't it great how these still get great reviews? Btw, is there a list anywhere where people can see DAPs/DAP+AMP combos that work great with the IE8?

 

[Zynec]

Been lurking a long time, but thought I would finally post a short version of how I ended up with IE8's (and say hello to a great site & community!).  
 
I started out with UM2's, which were mostly nice, but caused my ears to ring very easily.  I couldn't figure out why, I played the volume extremely low yet it would trigger the ringing within minutes.  I tried upgrading to UM56's, and while those do noticeably improve the UM2's, the ringing was still there.
 
So I moved on to X10's, which were different and for me a more enjoyable listen, but the ringing would still be triggered pretty easily.  As (bad) luck would have it, the sheaths split after only 5 months or so, so I sent them in for replacement.  This process over 4 (!!) months, during which I decided I would try the IE8's.  After all, I had lost a decent chunk of change so far, and was not yet satisfied - so why not 

 
The IE8's.  Wow.  These things are something special.  I can't put my finger on it, but before them I just wanted nice IEMs that I could wear at the computer, wear while walking down the street or on transit, go hiking with, etc.  Now, I am seriously considering getting full size headphones and amp for a home setup and using the IE8's everywhere else.  I would have never considered this before, but for me the IE8's are so enjoyable it has got me really curious about an HD650 setup.
 
Anyhow, first back to the IE8s.  They do take a long time to burn in.  I used pink noise for 4 hrs alternating with my playlist for 4 hours and some rest time as well.  Volume was set to 65% or 70% on my touch 2g.  I did this for about a week mostly continuously, stopping to listen to them for a couple hours here and there.  The change in that first week was pretty amazing.  The very first time I played them I just happened to have a pretty bass-heavy electronic song next in my playlist, and the bass was just all over the place.  The image I had in my mind was the stereotypical (no pun intended!) female sidekick to an action hero, who picks up a machine gun for the first time and proceeds to try and fire it.  We all know what scene happens next 

  The difference from that first moment to the end of the first week was very noticeable.  The changes after a month or two though were even more pleasant.  They do become more subtle, but all in all the result is a wonderfully relaxed and smooth sound that I greatly enjoy... I think it's been well described in this thread so I won't repeat.
 
The most important aspect:  the tinnitus is under control.  Is it a dynamic vs. BA thing?  A tight fit versus loose/ported fit thing?  A wide diameter bore vs. small diameter bore thing?  Some combination of the above?  I don't know.  But I can listen to the IE8's for longer and at very reasonable volume levels without having to worry about it.  Of course, I will get the ringing if I push myself, but that is normal (and dumb).  But in absolute sincerity, the difference for me is night and day - I could not enjoy the UM2's or X10's for any length of time at all.  The IE8's are a completely different story.  I thought I would bring this up as I don't know what other more experienced/knowledgeable members might have to say about this, but in reading this thread (which took many months a few pages at a time!) I have never seen this aspect mentioned.
 
Anyhow, after about 4 months... the conclusion?  Love my IE8's... and as mentioned earlier, thinking of trying HD650's for a home setup 

   I need to wait until I'm making a bit more money though...
 
... and finally, thanks to everyone contributing to this thread and this site, it's great!
 
[A bit of background - I've never treated my ears badly and never noticed ringing before, except maybe a couple times when I was younger and went to clubs.  I have always had very sensitive hearing though.]

 

[CEE TEE]

Quote:

I'd say from all the reading, the SM3 seems to be a good choice for detail, but the sound signature is more forward than the IE8s. There are some users out there who have used both and posted their reviews on the SM3 thread I believe.
 
I can't comment on the 16s as I haven't read much on them/
 
Don't trust us, trust yourself

. A lot of the time, we buy on impulse, we buy on a whim and fancy and many times we find ourselves looking back and wondering, did we even need it in the first place? Quite often, the answer is no. However, if you have the extra cash to splash, and no bills to worry about, why not? And you can also sell it further down the road for a small loss if you don't like it.
 
Personally, if I had the money, I wouldn't mind trying out several pairs, but would I want to own that many? No. I don't want to keep switching around all the time. The IE8s have been the most involving and fun experience I've had. There perhaps are others that may be better, but by how much? I don't fancy a $300 punt on it, that's too much for me and even then, I'm already happy with what I have. Some people strive for perfection, I'm content with what I have. In fact, I'm more than content and I don't see the need to go out there and spend more. But if I had the money, I'd try customs, not another universal. How much we are willing to pay is very much dependent on how much we value the difference in sound quality. To be honest, I wouldn't even mind keeping to a nice universal with custom tips for a good seal.
 
I think your question of asking whether you need it kinda answered the question itself

. I guess there are many ways to reply to that, but I think the only real important thing is, are you happy, are you enjoying what you have already? It doesn't mean we can't strive for more, but it just means we need to be more practical at times weighing in cost and value factors. Enjoy whatever you choose, the moment it weighs on your mind, it might just indicate a raise in expectations and wants.

Voice of Reason (cravenz), I salute you!  Your entire reply was great and very thoughtful.
 
Thank you.  This was a good time to have a support group that understands my desire to buy some more stuff but that gives me permission to be happy for a while with what I already have.  (Which I am!)

I'll just continue to enjoy this thread...