[herya]

I heard both of them, for me 58x does sound better, better bass extension and general sound presentation.

 

[GoodBoy]

58x does not even come close, it's got more bass extention, but it's boomy and fatiguing after a short while. There's a huge gap in detail retrieval between 58x and any of the HD6-series headphones. 58x is more on par with 599.

 

[herya]

maybe my personal preference, but i liked x58 more. Would like to hear 660s, i heard it's best in the line.

 

[GoodBoy]

My PX100-II has even more bass, but it doesn't make it a better headphone than any of them

 

[herya]

Didn't say its a better headphone, it just sounds better to me, i like it more, not just because of the bass. Every ear and music taste is different.

 

[RYCeT]

What's a good cable to pair with this headphone? Copper or Silver?

 

[Guidostrunk]

I agree! Only can I haven't heard is the 660. I definitely prefer the 58x over the 600,650,700, and 800.

Didn't say its a better headphone, it just sounds better to me, i like it more, not just because of the bass. Every ear and music taste is different.

 

[BabetakCZE]

I heard the whole HD 6xx line up and for me are still the best two models - good, old HD 600 and HD 650.
Smoother, more "natural" and refined compared to both new models.
HD 800 are problematic headphones, some music sounds horrible (not enjoyable) but there are tracks that sound just superb on HD800 and I would say almost unbeatable (for example Beatles songs).

 

[dakanao]

What's a good cable to pair with this headphone? Copper or Silver?

Silver if you want more treble sparkle and a spacier sound, copper if you want the same smooth sound as the stock cable, yet more refined if it's mini star quad copper for example.

 

[castleofargh]

Silver if you want more treble sparkle and a spacier sound, copper if you want the same smooth sound as the stock cable, yet more refined if it's mini star quad copper for example.

sure. and a red cable if we want more bass...
regurgitating mystics about silver boosting trebles and soundstage, is not something I encourage. it's a silly oversimplification(like most audiophile "public knowledge"), making many assumptions about a real phenomenon but typically relevant to frequencies well outside the audible range. plus in this specific case, the actual impact goes the other way for the treble so you get to be double wrong in a one line post. let's look at the impedance curve of a hd650 and imagine all being perfectly equal except for the type of metal in the headphone cables: the slightly lower impedance of silver compared to copper would cause a real but hardly measurable change into a 300ohm driver. but let's for a second pretend that I have lost all concepts of magnitude, and that I do care about what's going on no matter how small. the actual main impact on the signature with the silver cable would not give "more treble sparkle", it would show a treble roll off on the hd650 compared to the same cable made of copper.

 

[equalspeace]

I mean.. people actually hear these changes though. I can attest to a difference in treble quantitiy going from silver to copper on the HE500 for instance. Hard to argue against science though, and you seem to be the expert in that area on here so...

sure. and a red cable if we want more bass...
regurgitating mystics about silver boosting trebles and soundstage, is not something I encourage. it's a silly oversimplification(like most audiophile "public knowledge"), making many assumptions about a real phenomenon but typically relevant to frequencies well outside the audible range. plus in this specific case, the actual impact goes the other way for the treble so you get to be double wrong in a one line post. let's look at the impedance curve of a hd650 and imagine all being perfectly equal except for the type of metal in the headphone cables: the slightly lower impedance of silver compared to copper would cause a real but hardly measurable change into a 300ohm driver. but let's for a second pretend that I have lost all concepts of magnitude, and that I do care about what's going on no matter how small. the actual main impact on the signature with the silver cable would not give "more treble sparkle", it would show a treble roll off on the hd650 compared to the same cable made of copper.

 

[jimmers]

@equalspeace I think you will find @castleofargh often states he is not an expert in audio or science, but that doesn't mean he can't be right sometimes

... but then again I'm not much of an expert outside of pringles and manga(and even there, I'm self proclaimed expert).

maybe there is more to doing it, I'm far from being an expert in ... anything ^_^.

and wrong other times

 

[castleofargh]

I mean.. people actually hear these changes though. I can attest to a difference in treble quantitiy going from silver to copper on the HE500 for instance. Hard to argue against science though, and you seem to be the expert in that area on here so...

many variables are involved and they interact with each other in an electrical circuit. we're dealing with a function where the output signal depends on several interacting variables, some of which are defined by yet other variables. the metal in the cable isn't even a direct variable in there, it's more like the part deciding on a few constants in the equation. we could entirely disregard it and get our electrical specs with measurements. so of course when someone casually walks in and seems to have found a direct relation between silver and a certain way the sound is affected, with apparent disregard for the rest of the playback chain and electricity in general, of course I'm a tiny bit frustrated by the nonsense.
a playback chain is not a bunch of Lego blocks. sure there will be cases where a silver cable causes a headphone to have more trebles than some other copper cable, maybe even audibly so. but this wasn't one of those cases, and there exist an almost infinite number of different alternatives depending on the rest of the chain or just the other specs defining the cables themselves(gauge, length, insulation, threads, soldering job, the plugs and how good the contacts are with the female plugs, etc).

your anecdote concerns a different headphone with a dead flat impedance of around 50ohm. I was replying to something concerning the hd650 which is around 300ohm minimum and not that flat of an impedance response. at least mine isn't. 2 clearly different cases where your cables would cause different results(at least measurably so). in the same line of thought as the rest, I'm not inclined to use your anecdote to support his post or vice versa. different situations are simply different and seeing relations where there are none is what got him wrong in the first place.


now onto the big important part of your post. ^_^ I'm no expert. but some of those stuff have been public knowledge with testable models for almost a century, and I did study some of it.
my 'Sound Science modo' title if that's what caused confusion, only means that I'm in charge of most of the spanking in the Sound Science subsection of the forum. it doesn't involve being qualified in anyway about sound or science. only spanking, and I kind of suck at it.

@equalspeace I think you will find @castleofargh often states he is not an expert in audio or science, but that doesn't mean he can't be right sometimes





and wrong other times

yup, I have since confessed to not being a Pringles expert. it turns out that I was just a big frog in a small pond. there are many flavors I have never seen sold in France. I was a fraud and didn't even know it. on the bright side, nobody ever cared.
for the manga stuff, I'm solid. but again, nobody cares. ^_^

 

[jimmers]

yup, I have since confessed to not being a Pringles expert. it turns out that I was just a big frog in a small pond. there are many flavors I have never seen sold in France. I was a fraud and didn't even know it. on the bright side, nobody ever cared.
for the manga stuff, I'm solid. but again, nobody cares. ^_^

I tried Pringles Cheese Toasty flavour yesterday, and they were disgusting. They went straight to the garbage.

 

[dakanao]

many variables are involved and they interact with each other in an electrical circuit. we're dealing with a function where the output signal depends on several interacting variables, some of which are defined by yet other variables. the metal in the cable isn't even a direct variable in there, it's more like the part deciding on a few constants in the equation. we could entirely disregard it and get our electrical specs with measurements. so of course when someone casually walks in and seems to have found a direct relation between silver and a certain way the sound is affected, with apparent disregard for the rest of the playback chain and electricity in general, of course I'm a tiny bit frustrated by the nonsense.
a playback chain is not a bunch of Lego blocks. sure there will be cases where a silver cable causes a headphone to have more trebles than some other copper cable, maybe even audibly so. but this wasn't one of those cases, and there exist an almost infinite number of different alternatives depending on the rest of the chain or just the other specs defining the cables themselves(gauge, length, insulation, threads, soldering job, the plugs and how good the contacts are with the female plugs, etc).

your anecdote concerns a different headphone with a dead flat impedance of around 50ohm. I was replying to something concerning the hd650 which is around 300ohm minimum and not that flat of an impedance response. at least mine isn't. 2 clearly different cases where your cables would cause different results(at least measurably so). in the same line of thought as the rest, I'm not inclined to use your anecdote to support his post or vice versa. different situations are simply different and seeing relations where there are none is what got him wrong in the first place.


now onto the big important part of your post. ^_^ I'm no expert. but some of those stuff have been public knowledge with testable models for almost a century, and I did study some of it.
my 'Sound Science modo' title if that's what caused confusion, only means that I'm in charge of most of the spanking in the Sound Science subsection of the forum. it doesn't involve being qualified in anyway about sound or science. only spanking, and I kind of suck at it.


yup, I have since confessed to not being a Pringles expert. it turns out that I was just a big frog in a small pond. there are many flavors I have never seen sold in France. I was a fraud and didn't even know it. on the bright side, nobody ever cared.
for the manga stuff, I'm solid. but again, nobody cares. ^_^

Well, with the HD 650, I can hear a clear diference between this thin cheap copper cable: https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Replacement...606101?hash=item468f1ac195:g:9TgAAOSwhr9cVeyg, the stock HD 650 cable, and Mogami 2893 copper wire.

With the thinnest cable producing the least bass, most distant mids and most uncontrolled treble, and the stock cable makes it fuller and more refined vs the thin ebay cable, and then the Mogami makes it fuller and more refined vs the stock cable. I did compare them multiple times, and to my ears it's clear that there's a difference.

I think it has to do with EMI/RFI interference resistance of each cable.