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Sennheiser HD650 & Massdrop HD6XX Impressions Thread

Discussion in 'Headphones (full-size)' started by tangsta, Sep 24, 2006.
  1. Deftone
    I have no idea what the output impedance is CMA400i but i do know it sounds pehenomenal with HD650, its growing on me like mold.
    trellus likes this.
  2. BrotherKathos
    Thanks for posting this. It was very helpful to me in understanding impedance bridging. I’ve also been interested in whether or not bridging or matching is the best way to go. I know there is no way for this to work wih a hd650 since the impedance swings with frequency, but I think it might be possible with planar magnetics. Would they sound better if the amp matched their impedance, or should they still be bridged? My Audeze lcd 2c are 70 ohm flat so if i had a 70 ohm amp would that work better than a .1 ohm amp?
  3. castleofargh Contributor
    sorry but I know very little about planar drivers. they show a behavior that looks pretty much completely resistive(the flat impedance response), so the electrical side of things is indeed fairly easier to address than dynamic drivers. at the same time, it suggests that the damping ratio probably doesn't matter as much as it might on dynamic drivers(within reason). at least that's what my educated guess makes me imagine.
  4. Pharmaboy
    Well, far be it from me to refute anything Woo says (great products, nice people). But...I established to my own satisfaction that:
    • Any headphone less than ~70 ohms will probably not sound great on the WA3, at least from the lower midrange on down. The worst effects of impedance mismatching to low impedance HPs are in the bass, I find, with boosted/boomy sound quality
    • And above ~70 ohms up to 300 (pre-fazor LCD-2.1; ZMF Eikon; HD650) the effects vary quite a bit depending on the headphone. Getting a closer impedance match is not a magic act: sometimes the effects are quite noticeable & enjoyable (ie, cherry Eikon), but somewhat more subtle on other headphones.
      • For example, I expected the HD650 (and a heavily modded HD650 I compared it to) to excel on the WA3, but I actually preferred both on SS amps. Still not sure why that is...

    Regardless of impedance of the headphone, traditional tube benefits are found here--primarily a more dimensional, 3D quality to midrange & treble notes. I find overall that the sonic benefits of tubes on headphone are more subtle, less unmistakable that in big 2-channel speaker setups, which is the reverse of what I expected. Also unexpected is how solid & impactful the bass is on the WA3 w/higher impedance headphones, also how powerful the amp sounds, regardless of specifications (that's audio for you, a surprise-a-minute).
  5. demevalos
    Has anybody had to go through Massdrop because of faulty HD6XX's? I got mine 7 months ago and I'm noticing only now that the left driver is significantly louder than the right. Other cans on the same setup don't have this issue, and when I flip the headphones the wrong way the problem still persists. What is their warranty like? Will I have to pay to get them fixed?
  6. Acke
    Is everyones impression of the coin mod positive? I did notice an increase in clarity as advertised but maybe something else was lost, its hard for anyone to be sure of the changes with an irreversible mod unless they have a pair of back up foams to compare.
  7. Tuneslover
    Personally I prefer to listen to a headphone as the designer and manufacturer intended, but inevitably I can't help but wonder if perhaps I tried this or that how it might "improve" the headphone. So yeah I'm guilty of exploring. I suppose the mods I have undertaken on HD650's are easily reversible so I can convince myself that I haven't bastardized them. Shortly after purchasing the Jotunheim I just had to hear how they would sound balanced. So I bought another stock headphone cable and re-terminated it to XLR (minor improvement in sound but appreciable scalability). Next, I decided to replace the stock ear pads with a pair of Dekoni elite hybrids (extends the bass and alters the soundstage somewhat). Finally, I purchased a Schiit Loki in order to give me the flexibility to tailor/tweak the sound further (by far the most versatile tool to dial in a desired sound).

    So yeah I have dabbled with mods, however they are easily reversible (or default-ible). When Massdrop and Sennheiser released the bargain priced HD6XX I just had to get one to use in my other headphone systems but occasionally enjoy comparing to my "modded" HD650.
    DavidA, prymortal and Acke like this.
  8. stemplar
    One question: Does someone Fiio Q5 use the HD650? Balanced cable is added, with HD660s (balanced) FLAC silent for approx. 40-50% is enough for him.
    The amplifier module is the same as the Fiio X7ii Am3a (540mW), but there is also an AM5 mosul which also has 800Mw, but it is not balanced out, it's just unbalanced. Thanks for the reply .
    edit : Meanwhile, the Hd650 came. The performance of FiiO Q5 seems pretty, but in the balanced mode the real (this is also HD660S :))
    approx. -20% minus 660s in balanced volume mode.
    ... back and forth is a family of two Sen, but the 660s, not back to the roots ..
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  9. SilverEars
    I know @DavidA and I suspect there were some changes from HD650 (most likely older?) to the Massdrop HD6XX.

    Here is a video of Tyll taking HD6-- series apart, and he does point out material revisions of the insides.

    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
    riffrafff likes this.
  10. Deftone
    It could be this


    Red: New out of box pads
    Blue: well worn old pads

    If possible someone could try a pad swap between an old HD650 and new HD6XX if they have them to hand to see how it sounds

    I remember my older 650s sounding less aggressive and shouty but when new if your in to rock music it sounds like your sitting on stage with your head next to the amplifiers. In that aspect they calm down with age.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  11. DavidA
    @Deftone, I did a pad swap with my HD650, HD6XX and HD58X and didn't notice any differences between them. FWIW while my HD650 is about 4 years old it doesn't get much use and I bent the headband since the stock clamping force was giving me a head ache. Also bent the headbands of HD6XX and HD58X so I suspect that my pads don't get flattened out much so for me the pads are ruled out as a possible difference in sound
  12. SilverEars
    When I had the HD650 (the one from 2010), even the first impression was warm and a bit veiled. I had it for a couple years, and sold it. So, I can't attribute my HD650 impression to pad wear.

    HD6XX does initially give you that impression that it's somwhat shouty and agressive in the upper mids. But also, it's pretty filled in the general mids area as well. This is I think why music just pops out, and sounds engaging. It's a bit forward (if I do not use the word agressive) with bass impact as well as I would say heft. Although HD58X looks graphically more extended, HD6XX doesn't seem to have as much lower bass graphically, but interestingly, it sounds more impactful. Not sure if it's due the large bass impedance hump. I do use a 2 ohm output impedance solid-state amp that has quite a bit of power, so it may not warm it up all that much as I wouldn't consider it warm sounding with it's open nature. I think people expect these to have a warm tilt nature. It may have a warm tilt in response, but doesn't seem warm in a sense of lower-end reverb.

    I can't help but to speculate that HD6XX is different from my HD650 from 2010.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
    rafaelo and Deftone like this.
  13. prymortal
    Could be.
    I found my HD6XX shouty in vocals & cutting in/out imaging/Sound seperation to fall well short of expected levels. So i swapped the HD6XX cable for the HD650(660s) cable & it balanced out the HD6XX vocals a lot (still some male vocal shouty songs) & full imaging no cutting off/out/lacking, much better sound seperation e.t.c. The overall Sound was similar but improved to the ears. I also made a balanced cable from the HD650 cable & used it with the jotunhiem with a similar result. then i go back to the Massdrop cable & it sounds like a trashy shouty $50 headphone again....
    Originally thought "meh placebo" so i used the HD6XX Cable on the HD660s & well it wasnt placebo..... similar issue, sounded well off, weak & lacking, "sound signature" was more or less the same but it lost a lot of its "liveliness" to the ear.

    The HD600, HD6XX & HD660s all had issues with that cable. Its like the signal or power is lower then drops out when using it. I've actually retried this independently a few times to date same result until i threw it away.
    Might be a 1 off failure with my massdrop cable (or 6.3mm adaptor) though.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  14. kman1211
    That’s likely due to driver excursion differences. Something not really shown in graphs. The HD 58X may simply lack some excursion. The HD 660 S lacked excursion compared to the HD 650. It could simply be because of the lower impedance voice-coil which physically alters the drivers excursion behavior. A headphone with better excursion will be able to produce more impact and a more dynamic sound when driven properly and at louder volumes. One reason a HD 650 is considered ‘scale’ better than a HD 660 S is likely due to better excursion.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
    trellus, riffrafff and DavidA like this.
  15. FastAndClean
    i can get HD650 for 50 dollars, is that a good deal?

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