[blacknile]

Hi there Rudolfs,
 
thanks for your impressions. I see you own both the DT880 600ohm and the V-can. How do you like the combination?  Cheers!
 
Quote:

After some hesitation I ordered HD 598.
Spent a week with them, returning today.
HD 598 are 'nice' looking, they sound better than Koss PortaPro and, while unamped, they are at least as good as any phones I have. When amped, HD 598 are even better, and clearly better than my lesser phones. They are possibly on a par with DT 770 Pro (250), but still nowhere near K 701 or DT 880/600('05). But of course you cannot really use the last three unamped at all.
So HD 598 are really good unamped and still better when amped. As such they have an obvious niche.
The downside is that unamped they are not considerably better than old HD 515. Or Sony V6. Different, somewhat better, but not worth the outlay. Amped HD 598 are better than those two, but I already have headphones which I like considerably better when amped.
Moreover, apart from the grilles and cable, the build quality of HD 515 and 598 is substantially the same. All main elements are made of the same type of plastic. OK, HD 598 have metal grilles, I give them that, but that's about it. Who on Earth cares for fake wood and pleather and/or leatherette?? I did not mind the colour scheme, but given the materials it is not stylish, but rather tacky. And just try to extrapolate the traces of wear of HD 515 (or 555 or 595 for that) on creamy HD 598, - they do not develop patina, they start looking shabby in a year or two.
Finally, one of the reasons for new headphones was to use them with MP3 language course material - and for speech I actually prefer HD 515. So HD 515 and possibly PortaPro will have to do as the language course "workhorse".
However, I kind of enjoyed Senn sound, so I am getting HD 600 while I can (Amazon.fr for me).

 

 

[MacedonianHero]

After some hesitation I ordered HD 598.
Spent a week with them, returning today.
HD 598 are 'nice' looking, they sound better than Koss PortaPro and, while unamped, they are at least as good as any phones I have. When amped, HD 598 are even better, and clearly better than my lesser phones. They are possibly on a par with DT 770 Pro (250), but still nowhere near K 701 or DT 880/600('05). But of course you cannot really use the last three unamped at all.
So HD 598 are really good unamped and still better when amped. As such they have an obvious niche.
The downside is that unamped they are not considerably better than old HD 515. Or Sony V6. Different, somewhat better, but not worth the outlay. Amped HD 598 are better than those two, but I already have headphones which I like considerably better when amped.
Moreover, apart from the grilles and cable, the build quality of HD 515 and 598 is substantially the same. All main elements are made of the same type of plastic. OK, HD 598 have metal grilles, I give them that, but that's about it. Who on Earth cares for fake wood and pleather and/or leatherette?? I did not mind the colour scheme, but given the materials it is not stylish, but rather tacky. And just try to extrapolate the traces of wear of HD 515 (or 555 or 595 for that) on creamy HD 598, - they do not develop patina, they start looking shabby in a year or two.
Finally, one of the reasons for new headphones was to use them with MP3 language course material - and for speech I actually prefer HD 515. So HD 515 and possibly PortaPro will have to do as the language course "workhorse".
However, I kind of enjoyed Senn sound, so I am getting HD 600 while I can (Amazon.fr for me).

I actually got to hear them (HD598) a few weeks back and I must say that I was very impressed with them out of a Peachtree Nova. Quite good actually.

 

[Zombie_X]

Even without an amp the HD600 sounds far superior to the HD598. Sure an amp does help with the HD600, but it's still plenty darned good by itself and IMO amping it does not make that big a difference. I'd say get the HD600 and this way you won't second guess yourself.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Even without an amp the HD600 sounds far superior to the HD598. Sure an amp does help with the HD600, but it's still plenty darned good by itself and IMO amping it does not make that big a difference. I'd say get the HD600 and this way you won't second guess yourself.

As much as I enjoyed the HD598, I agree with your assessment.

 

[Anaxilus]

Well, some seem to be sensitive to the perceived veil on the 555/595/600/650 depending on a number of factors.  The 558/598 don't have any such concerns at all and looking at the construction around the drivers explains why.  Plus the 598 has a very expansive SS that doesn't offend me which is something other wide sounding phones sometimes did.  I think it's a very nice phone for around $170 that has solid technical performance and balanced sound.  If they didn't look so gaudy I wouldn't be trying to mod my 558's.  

 

[Zombie_X]

Another factor you should consider is the price. A used HD600 could run you $250, while a used HD580 can be had for $150-$180 and are virtually the same headphone as a HD600 (but have a different color and also have different grills). 
 
Also the HD600 and HD580 aren't all that hard to amp correctly so don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The improvements and dependency of amps on this forum is very overstated. The HD600 is pretty efficient on it's own, but an amp does help with the bass.
 
Do you need an amp to power these? Most certainly not, but they help with control and imaging. I use my HD600 with my Zune HD all the time and get fantastic results.

 

[wind016]

 
Quote:

Even without an amp the HD600 sounds far superior to the HD598. Sure an amp does help with the HD600, but it's still plenty darned good by itself and IMO amping it does not make that big a difference. I'd say get the HD600 and this way you won't second guess yourself.

I don't think this will be a universally shared opinion. Far from it. If you were to obsess about detail retrieval and frequency extension, then yes, the HD6XX headphones may be superior. But to me, the HD598 is how headphones (or music) are supposed to sound. They just need to sound cleaner and extend further in the low end.

 
Quote:

Well, some seem to be sensitive to the perceived veil on the 555/595/600/650 depending on a number of factors.  The 558/598 don't have any such concerns at all and looking at the construction around the drivers explains why.  Plus the 598 has a very expansive SS that doesn't offend me which is something other wide sounding phones sometimes did.  I think it's a very nice phone for around $170 that has solid technical performance and balanced sound.  If they didn't look so gaudy I wouldn't be trying to mod my 558's.  

The 598s do look gaudy. They may as well stamp "Lexus" on the ear cups.
 

 

[tdockweiler]

I think HD-600 is technically the superior headphone and it's also much more expensive! $340 vs $175! I kind of would expect this. This still does not make it better and it all just goes by preference. Good luck finding a new pair for under $340 new outside Ebay! They're now even the same price as the HD-650 which makes no sense. Despite it being "superior" as you say, I still think the HD-598 is by far the more engaging and fun headphone to listen to. HD-600 is a snore fest with it's stock cable and it's sound is only about 5% more clear to me, which is quite sad for the price jump. I hope you've tested the HD-600 with it's stock cable against the HD-598 because based on my experience, upgrading he cable to even a Canare or Mogami cable changes it's sound too much, so it wouldn't be a fair comparison. Those stock Sennheiser cables are garbage. I just made a Canare HD-650 cable and it's really nice for being so cheap! Wish I had used Mogami instead.
 
I personally don't think the HD-600 can justify the $165 because it's not even a major improvement to me unless the cable is upgraded. Just my opinion, that's all.
 
How long have you tried the HD-598? Do you own one? Just curious. I do agree (to a point) the HD-600 is a step up in some areas to the 598, but the HD-598 just does soooo many things better. Better soundstage, imaging, more forward mids and I also find it to have more treble than the HD-600 (silver screened version) with it's stock cable. Of course swapping out to the HD-650 cable seems to increase it's treble and bass slightly. I found the HD-650 cable on the HD-600 to seem to negatively affect it's mids. Strange.
 
Personally I think the HD-598 is an easier headphone for more people to like. I think the HD-600 is harder to like due to it's more laid back signature. I actually wouldn't suggest any without an amp.
 
Quote:

Even without an amp the HD600 sounds far superior to the HD598. Sure an amp does help with the HD600, but it's still plenty darned good by itself and IMO amping it does not make that big a difference. I'd say get the HD600 and this way you won't second guess yourself.

 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Another factor you should consider is the price. A used HD600 could run you $250, while a used HD580 can be had for $150-$180 and are virtually the same headphone as a HD600 (but have a different color and also have different grills). 
 
Also the HD600 and HD580 aren't all that hard to amp correctly so don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The improvements and dependency of amps on this forum is very overstated. The HD600 is pretty efficient on it's own, but an amp does help with the bass.
 
Do you need an amp to power these? Most certainly not, but they help with control and imaging. I use my HD600 with my Zune HD all the time and get fantastic results.

Yeah...but who buys a $250-$350 headphone without at least having an amp first? I know you didn't suggest it, but I couldn't ever suggest an HD-598 without even a cheap amp. Even the E5 will do. Of course if they're saving up for an amp, then it's OK. On it's impendence graph the HD-598 goes up to 275 ohm at 100hz. I personally think the 598 sounds good without an amp.
 
It's funny, but very few headphones I've had sounded horrible unamped. Maybe the DT-880 600 ohm from an Ipod Touch

 
You guys are going to think this is crazy but I often lift weights with an Ipod Touch and my K702. I'm NOT kidding. No amp, but it's not stuff with a lot of bass and mostly soundtracks etc. This is only for 40 minutes and somehow he K702 actually stays on my head. Don't worry, I exercise at home!!
 
I also was shocked to find a few weeks ago that my HD-650 is easier to drive than my old non-silver screened HD-600, but it seems to benefit more from amp upgrades. My Airhead can drive the HD-650 decently, which was surprising. I hated the HD-650 until I got a good amp, so maybe it's more picky with amps though? I can't get over how good my K702 sounds with my new amp compared to using it on the Asgard and E9! Maybe it will soon be my primary headphone.
 
I've actually found amping to be totally under-stated. People always said that an amp couldn't change a headphone that much, but I found the changes enough to make me go from just liking to loving two headphones now. People always said that could never happen. Wrong! K702 when I got the E9 and then the HD-650 when I got the Micro amp. Very strange. HD-650 out of my Asgard was terrible, and the E9 wasn't much better, but that amp is more neutral than the Asgard.
 
Somehow my HD-650 seems to have similar upper mids as the HD-600 with my Micro Amp

Not complaining though since I like it.

 

[tdockweiler]

My main issue with the HD-600 is that it tames my brightly recorded music too much. Sure a headphone cable can reduce this, but most people don't swap the cable out. The HD-598 seems to do this slightly less. I don't find the HD-600 to have that much more detail. You'd think for it being so much more expensive it'd sound MUCH more clear, but it doesn't. Not even a 10% improvement. I loved the HD-600 and felt it was an upgrade slightly in minor areas, but not enough to justify the price difference. When you go to the HD-600 you lose out on the addicting mids, the soundstage and the comfort. Why would I want to do that and switch to a more boring sound signature?
 
Now going from the HD-598 to HD-650 is HUGE. HD-598 is still easier to like and more fun to listen to mostly. I hated the HD-650 though until I found a good amp for it and got a new cable. With this new setup I find it far, far less laid back and boring than the HD-600 (with stock cable). I did love the Hd-600 for being fairly neutral sounding but it just wasn't very engaging and bored me to death. It's one of the very few headphones I've had that didn't have enough treble for me. Strange huh?!
 
I've found the HD-650 about 5% more clear than the HD-600. HD-600 is just slightly more grainy, but it's hard to spot. Most people might not be able to notice until you compare them side by side. I did. The HD-600 didn't have the same amount of detail. Here's the strange part...hook the HD-650 AND HD-600 up to my Asgard and the HD-600 would win easily. Only because my Asgard didn't have good synergy with the HD-650 and seemed to muddy up the sound and added too much bass and made the soundstage small. Now with the HD-650 on my Micro amp, the HD-650 would win every time for my preferences. Hd-650 still stinks for movies and games though.
 
It seems that the HD-650 sounds best with a fairly neutral amp or one that seems to boost it's upper mids slightly. My E9 is fairly neutral, but it doesn't drive the HD-650 well despite having a ton of power.
 
Somehow my HD-650 with ANY amp has more treble than the HD-600 ever did. Still not a very bright headphones, but at least it doesn't seem to tame any of my recordings as much as the HD-600 did (stock). HD-600 does have more forward upper mids of course.
 

 
Quote:

 


I don't think this will be a universally shared opinion. Far from it. If you were to obsess about detail retrieval and frequency extension, then yes, the HD6XX headphones may be superior. But to me, the HD598 is how headphones (or music) are supposed to sound. They just need to sound cleaner and extend further in the low end.

 

The 598s do look gaudy. They may as well stamp "Lexus" on the ear cups.
 

 

 

[rymd]

HD600 (new) surely can be driven to listenable volume by portable players, portable amps, and low end desktop amps, but I feel like your money is wasted since it only sounds like 50% of what it could be out of a higher end/better rig/amp. The HD600 scales up phenomenally IMO, and listening to it with a portable player would be a shame. 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

HD600 (new) surely can be driven to listenable volume by portable players, portable amps, and low end desktop amps, but I feel like your money is wasted since it only sounds like 50% of what it could be out of a higher end/better rig/amp. The HD600 scales up phenomenally IMO, and listening to it with a portable player would be a shame. 

And the HD-650 even more so I've heard. I didn't think this was true, but I was shocked when I heard the HD-650 out of my Micro amp after using just the E9 and Asgard with it. Same with my K702. I don't even want to know what the HD-650 sounds like out of a $1000 amp. Based on my experience, the HD-600 seemed to sound great out of any of my amps and was a whole lot less picky. I'm not quite sure why. The K702 and HD-650 have been the pickiest headphones I've owned when it comes to amp synergy. Even my K601 is less picky than either of those!
 

 

[tdockweiler]

I think so too. I still remember when I went from the old non-silvered screened HD-600 to the HD-598 I was shocked at how much brighter it was and my first thought was that FINALLY Sennheiser got rid of that Veil. It's very funny because all over the internet people will say that they removed it by mods, by a $1000 amp and then by a new cable.

Sounds like non-sense to me. If they say they did, then I believe them I guess.
 
I tried the silver screened HD-600 version and it was a LOT better to my ears than my old version. Even very good, but still more "veiled" than the HD-598.
 
I noticed a bigger difference between the old HD-650 and the new silver screened version. I hated the old HD-650, but now really like the new HD-650. But it took too much work and I don't even know if it was worth it. I started out with really disliking it, but it was probably some bad amp synergy.
 
I keep thinking with my HD-650...Wow..that veil is gone. For awhile it seems to not be there, but then when I use it for gaming and movies..there it is. Not too horrible though.
 
Immediately going from the K702 to the HD-650 is kind of disturbing

  Suddenly all my music sounds a whole lot less clear, but still good. They're just so totally different in how they present music.
Quote:

Well, some seem to be sensitive to the perceived veil on the 555/595/600/650 depending on a number of factors.  The 558/598 don't have any such concerns at all and looking at the construction around the drivers explains why.  Plus the 598 has a very expansive SS that doesn't offend me which is something other wide sounding phones sometimes did.  I think it's a very nice phone for around $170 that has solid technical performance and balanced sound.  If they didn't look so gaudy I wouldn't be trying to mod my 558's.  

 

 

[Rudolfs]

Just to comment on some posts:
 
Quote:

Hi there Rudolfs,
 
thanks for your impressions. I see you own both the DT880 600ohm and the V-can. How do you like the combination?  Cheers!
 

DT 880 / 600 with V-can is currently the best sound to my liking I can get at home. However, my friend [who is more into speakers or earplugs] preferred K 701.
The source is Audiolab 8200CD (as integrated CD player or as DAC with MP3 (Arcam DV27 or Sony BDP370 providing SPDIF signal; I have not yet tried the asynchronous USB)), and I have wired it through Promitheus TVC (still unbalanced - need a cable). Actually I think DT 880 sound just as good if V-Can is wired straight into 8200 CD, while K 701 sounds better with the transformer in the chain. Go figure ...
Anyway I would say a V-can is a good entry if you can have it cheaply (which limits it almost exclusively to buyers in the UK), and as far as I know you can mod it if you know what you are doing (I don't, so I have not gone there).
 
Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudolfs /img/forum/go_quote.gif

After some hesitation I ordered HD 598.
[..]
However, I kind of enjoyed Senn sound, so I am getting HD 600 while I can (Amazon.fr for me).

I actually got to hear them (HD598) a few weeks back and I must say that I was very impressed with them out of a Peachtree Nova. Quite good actually.

To be honest I had quite a hard time deciding whether to keep them or to return them, as there were moments I enjoyed HD 598 quite a lot.
However, I cannot name a single piece where I could say I was stunned and/or overwhelmed by HD 598 - while I recall that sensation when listening to K 701, DT 880/600, DT 770 Pro 250, V6, PortaPro, DT 990 Pro (although after a while 990 became increasingly frustrating), and - a few years back and with not much to compare with - even HD 515.
 
But all this should be taken with a grain of salt, as there is a question of synergy. I really enjoy my V6 with Sansa Clip+, DT 770 Pro 250 are really pleasant when plugged in the Dell screen at work (sounds like sacrilege, doesn't it?), K 701 are quite there with 2g shuffle+Fiio5, DT 880 / 600 with V-can ... and actually quite acceptable straight from a HP 2750 laptop for casual late night listening.

HD 598 did not come as 1st in any combination, therefore I saw no reasons to keep them. I am well aware that my amping solutions are the weakest link, therefore indeed YMMV.
Quote:

 
[..]. Far from it. If you were to obsess about detail retrieval and frequency extension, then yes, the HD6XX headphones may be superior. But to me, the HD598 is how headphones (or music) are supposed to sound. They just need to sound cleaner and extend further in the low end.

I wonder, - is it just me being exposed to the Lowthers too long, of could there be a different trend in sonic preferences on our respective sides of the Pond?
 

 
Quote:

I think HD-600 is technically the superior headphone and it's also much more expensive! $340 vs $175!
 

Here it is more like 160 Eur vs 240 Eur.
 
I may come back on HD 600, once I get them (Amazon.fr is "about to start delivering them" for some three days by now). It goes without saying that the HD 598 being returned makes a sound comparison impossible, still I will be able to tell whether I enjoy HD 600 or not.

 

[wind016]

Quote:

I wonder, - is it just me being exposed to the Lowthers too long, of could there be a different trend in sonic preferences on our respective sides of the Pond?
 

I've read your impressions of the HD598 on the other thread. If you found the HD598 bland (which I find is somewhat close to neutral), then you may find the HD6XXs boring. I don't know for sure though.
 
Your preferences seem to lean on the bright side. Not exactly a region related difference. Depending on your sensitivity to treble, you may like brighter headphones.