[Connnorrr]

I think the point is that the gain per unit is directly tied to how many you can sell. If you make a limited number, there is less room for gain assuming that the R&D costs the same. If you can sell more units, the R&D's expenses are thinned out, increasing profit. I could be wrong though.
 
Quote:

IpodPj i think people are free to say anything they want to say,even histerically,even about the price of some headphone;
in this case because i suppose they like sennheiser,and their expectation fell off because they were exited about some hi-fi headphone that should cost a little bit cheaper then 1000 dollars.because they wanted to be able to buy some hd800 similar headphone,a little cheaper.
i agree with you that a big enterprise like sennheiser have a lot of expenses (as any enterprise,little or big),but obviously they are not selling a 1000 dollar headphone with just 50 dollars of benefit,i would say,just the opposite,to make 60/75% of benefit from the whole sell price.a lot of R&D expenses to increase benefit exponentially after.

On topic, I hope my local shop will have these cans. I'd definitely make the trip out to audition them. I wonder if they have the PS500 too.. Seems I need to send them an email. 

 

[Achmedisdead]

Quote:

 A corporation can ONLY grow and will ONLY have big profits, IF the company creates products that the consumer wants and value and buys with their free will.

Unless that corporation is a part of the military-industrial complex......

 

[Nick01]

I think the people who are complaining the HD700's price will always be complaining regardless of how much Sennheiser charges us. If it's $900, they would complain, if it's $800 they still complain, $700, $600, $500, all they do is complain how high the price is. 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

 
And while I'm at it, "capitalism" is fiction originally formed in the mind of an imaginative English teacher fantasizing about an ideal world order that he knew could never actually happen. We just sort of took it and ran with it -- sort of like Dianetics.

Actually, if you mean Adam Smith (Scottish professor of Philosophy) he was the first to warn of the threat or damage an entirely free market could pose to 'Kapitalism' (spelling for rythmdevils 

).  John Maynard Keynes also warned of the perils of government overstepping  its role in economic policy.  Of course nobody ever likes to talk about these things as they tend to cloud our desire for a simpler understanding of the world.
 

 

[Anaxilus]

So I have a question for those who have also heard the HD700 and T1.  Despite having only a 40mm driver and not some 'Tesla' driver (poor Nickolai), would anyone consider the 700 on par w/ the T1 performance wise or perhaps even prefer the 700 over the T1?  Just a random thought/question.

 

[headinclouds]

<
Suffering from a painful case of Deja vu.  This reminds me of this time last year when I bought a pair of HD800.  I had hoped for an improved HD650 but the HD800 was a different direction altogether.
I admire the technology, and of course it does some things very well but for me I couldn’t love them.   They often felt thin and uninvolving.   I was not prepared to spend more money and time to actually get from them what I hoped they would deliver for the price.   I think a careful inspection of the FR plots of the HD650, HD800, TI and LCD2 helps to explain this.
 I listen to music to enjoy it, to be drawn in by it, and headphone listening allows intimate immersion in a performance.  My HD650 has always provided this for me.  After owning Beyer T1 and HD800 both were sold and replaced with LCD2.  These and HD650 remain, both with improved cables.
 
Recently we went to an excellent ‘ Stones tribute band.  When I got home I played a few tracks from  'Stones CDs to see how it compared.  The LCD2 recreated a realistic solid sound and vocal/instrumental realism that summed up the essence of the gig.  Great!
 
A few days later I tried CDs of two other orchestral concerts I had recently been to, again, for me the essence of the live concerts was very well reproduced by the LCD2.  They don’t have tizzy, in your face treble but neither did the live concerts.
 
The beauty of headphones is that it is a personal experience and you only have one person to please, the paying customer.
 
I’m happy with my phones and would be interested to hear the HD700 at a meet but they may sound too much like HD800 for my taste.
 
As to the price of HD800 (and soon presumably HD700) Sennheiser has forced dealers to fix the advertised selling price.  When I bought mine the HD800 prices were 999 Euros, £999 pounds in UK, $1500 in US I think.
 How much did they cost the dealers -£600?
 

 

[krisno]

Regarding increasing "flagship" prices. You dont understand the essence of money. We do not have real money, that is why prices are skyrocketing. Measure the HD 700 vs gold and you will see that it is alot cheaper than the HD 650 when it was released. It is not prices and evil corporations that raise the effective price, it is the State and the government who prints money through central banks that create the inflation which makes prices soar. This is the "hidden" tax everyone today is to lost to get a grasp on. Measure every price against gold and you will see, neither gas, electricity or headphones has ever been cheaper in the history of man... ever. 
 
Gold is the objective measure of money and its only against gold one should measure prices. As the production increases prices fall, this has been true for 5000 years, and still is, but we dont see it anymore since the government keeps printing the money. In 1920-1930 the price of a GM car fell from $1000 to $200. Today it seems prices are up every year, even though they are lower.. but the great western empire needs to finance their wars through inflation, making HD 700 seem more and more expensive. Its not sennheisers fault, it is the state and central bank.
 
 

 

[MuppetFace]

I think it's valid to say that the price of headphones is, on average, rising compared to several years ago. It's not just inflation: It's a growing audiophile culture, expectations, and willingness.
 
How many flagships were above $1000 when the HD650 was first released, even taking inflation into account? Today there's the T1, HD800, PS1000, LCD-3, HE-6, Edition 10, W3000ANV, TH900, AMT, H2+, SR-009, and Final Audio's upcoming full-sized headphones. How many of those are over $1500? Eight. How many are over $2000? Five.
 
Until Final Audio, a $5000 MSRP for dynamic headphones was unheard of. Similarly, it was unheard of a few years ago for universal IEMs to be above $1000, and now there are several.
 
Even in popular "consumer audio," the non-niche general market, paying more for headphones has become acceptable thanks to Monster and Dr. Dre.

 

[khaos974]

Measuring against inflation is a more reliable standard that gold, gold price to subject to the whims of gold production and the other factors dictating the gold market.

 

[Hennyo]

I think gold is a poor excuses to point to. While we had had (effing terrible) inflation due to our government (and the corporations who've guided them..) it has not been more than a cumulative 35-40% over the last 10 years.  There is no excuse for a $1000 headphone. We should  also not become quite used to this sort of inflation as clearly there are many things going on in Washington, and behind the scenes at Washington. Long story short the American people have been robbed, and we'll have to square up with that sooner that later (within 5-10 years) or we'll have to merge with a 'global currency' (which is the end game goal) in order to save the 'value' of our country. But the point is; there is still no excuse for a $1000 headphone. They cost less to make now than they did to make then. (Even with inflation.) There are very few headphones who engineering is worth anything near their asking price these days. (Save from an engineering some of the Stax's and HD 800). Even so, these headphones are not worth near their asking price, however much closer to worth their price than other headphones. But are the majority still worth >$1000? No. Maybe HD 800 gets somewhere near close to this price in terms of r&d. But it's still not really near that. I would say the original design goal of 700-800$ is a much more accurate price of HD 800's true worth. (that's adjusted for inflation). I do think however, anybody who's been in the audio industry and studying this hobby for awhile does find the HD 700 distasteful though. From an engineering and price perspective.
 
My tone probably comes across as some vengeance oriented visage. I'm writing this looking from an outside perspective. There's no real anger here. The price corporations think they can extract out of people is what it is. Even Electrostat speakers can be had for 400-500 per monitor..

 

[christophrowley]

Quote:

I think gold is a poor excuses to point to. While we had had (effing terrible) inflation due to our government (and the corporations who've guided them..) it has not been more than a cumulative 35-40% over the last 10 years.  There is no excuse for a $1000 headphone. We should  also not become quite used to this sort of inflation as clearly there are many things going on in Washington, and behind the scenes at Washington. Long story short the American people have been robbed, and we'll have to square up with that sooner that later (within 5-10 years) or we'll have to merge with a 'global currency' (which is the end game goal) in order to save the 'value' of our country. But the point is; there is still no excuse for a $1000 headphone. They cost less to make now than they did to make then. (Even with inflation.) There are very few headphones who engineering is worth anything near their asking price these days. (Save from an engineering some of the Stax's and HD 800). Even so, these headphones are not worth near their asking price, however much closer to worth their price than other headphones. But are the majority still worth >$1000? No. Maybe HD 800 gets somewhere near close to this price in terms of r&d. But it's still not really near that. I would say the original design goal of 700-800$ is a much more accurate price of HD 800's true worth. (that is adjusted for inflation). I do think however, anybody who's been in the audio industry and studying this hobby for awhile does find the HD 700 distasteful though. From an engineering and price perspective.
 
My tone probably comes across as some vengeance oriented visage. I'm writing this looking from an outside perspective. There's no real anger here. The price corporations think they can extract out of people is what it is. Even Electrostat speakers can be had for 400-500 per monitor..

 
They must be worth >$1,000 to some people, otherwise they wouldn't be selling any. 
 
 

 

[ac500]

Of course. I could sell 16oz bottles of water in the desert for $1000, and sooner or later I'd find someone who finds it worth that much to them at that time/location.
 
Anyway there's no point complaining about price. It is as it is, and we're not going to change anything by complaining.

 

[project86]

Okay, so American people robbed, heading toward global currency, corporations "extracting" money from people. Got it. Are there any lizard people involved? Perhaps a shadow government controlled by a secret society?
 
Seriously though, this is an interesting discussion, but as was mentioned - anyone involved this hobby knows all about how obscene pricing can be. It doesn't matter if we are talking about speakers, amps, turntables (!) or cables (!!!!!!!), this phenomenon is nothing new. You as a consumer need to judge for yourself if the cost is worth it or not. While I'd love to see the HD 700 sell for $700, I also feel like the $1k asking price is realistic, considering the level of performance. I would personally buy them. You may not.
 
I do think it is a bit unfair to bring this up so loudly regarding the HD 700 when it doesn't seem to come up as much with regards to Beyer or others. Maybe it is because they are such a big company, and therefore have the largest target on their back?

 

[sfoclt]

Gold is "objective"?  Jesus.
 

 

[MayaTlab]