[Beagle]

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All ears mate, what was the mod?
 

YGPM

 

[GiacomoHoldini]

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I'm not sure that's true...

Without a citation, I'm not either.  Assuming arguendo that he's correct, it's nevertheless academic,  Regardless of the name we give it, most of us are living in a modified market economy - free market, but subject to regulations.

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

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In the case of headphones, well... who knows what would happen if someone like Sennheiser chose to sell an HD700-like headphone for a really cheap price. I like to think optimistically and imagine that they'd gain massive popularity and adoration from the audiophile community, the mainstream, and as a result make bucketloads more money too. But I don't know anything about economics.

Is there really anything to suggest that Sennheiser's margins on the HD700 are any higher than those of any of their other products? The HD700 has a new form factor and headband. It has a new driver that incorporates elements of both the HD650 and HD800. It seems to me that the relationship of R&D/parts/production to MSRP could very well be exactly the same as their other mid- to high-end products.
 
Now, one could argue that the HD800 started the "flagship wars" and the general escalation in high-end headphone prices, and that the HD700 continues that unfortunate trend. But I haven't really seen anything in the HD700 (pricing or otherwise) that's out of line with the rest of the industry.

 

[DVDRey]

 
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Sennheiser is already massively popular in both the audiophile and average consumer markets.

 
+1, Sennheiser is probably the most famous headphone brands over the world.
 
I don't know why the price of the HD700 offends some people, Sennheiser has always had in the past some very expensive headphones. Yes the HD700 is expensive, but its not like they remplace the HD600 or the HD650.

 

[ac500]

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Is there really anything to suggest that Sennheiser's margins on the HD700 are any higher than those of any of their other products? The HD700 has a new form factor and headband. It has a new driver that incorporates elements of both the HD650 and HD800. It seems to me that the relationship of R&D/parts/production to MSRP could very well be exactly the same as their other mid- to high-end products.
 
Now, one could argue that the HD800 started the "flagship wars" and the general escalation in high-end headphone prices, and that the HD700 continues that unfortunate trend. But I haven't really seen anything in the HD700 (pricing or otherwise) that's out of line with the rest of the industry.

True. I think the critique applies to the industry in general more than anything else. Some people are just unhappy with how the industry is perpetuating the inflated high-end pricing.

 

[purrin]

I think Monster started the headphone price wars. Sennheiser just picked up on it. I mean if Beats sell for $300-$400...

 

[rhythmdevils]

or Grado.  700 for an RS1 and whatever the heck the PS1000 sells for...

 

[seldenr]

Any chance you will give us a more detailed comparison of the Audeze LCD-2 and the HD700? 
I have an ancient set of Audio Technica planar headphones (with the transformer for connecting them directly to the speaker outlets of an amplifier), and although they are not the last word in cans, there is something very magical about the planar sound, which has made me very interested in either Audeze or HiFiman. But I also own the HD650, and thinking upgrade, so wondering which way to go??  I know, I need to attend a can-jam, but your opinion would be welcome!!

 

[IPodPJ]

 
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What this thread reflects is a total misunderstanding of how capitalism and the world works! A corporation can ONLY grow and will ONLY have big profits, IF the company creates products that the consumer wants and value and buys with their free will.

with the exception of the federal bailouts.
 
 

 

[IPodPJ]

I also think it's hysterical that people balk at this headphone costing $1000, but many of those same people never complained about the original price or currently insane used price of the Orpheus.  R&D costs money, and if Sennheiser only produced as many HD700 as they did HE90 the price would be approaching that neck of the woods.  Audiophiles have always and will always justify spending whatever they think is reasonable to them for even just a slight improvement in sound quality.  No one is forcing you to buy it.  You could instead spend your own money and design your own headphone with similar styling to the HD700 and see how much it costs you to make a prototype.  I can assure you from personal experience making a one-off product isn't cheap.

 

[idletime1213]

I have no problem with the HD700 pricing. Though I don't like the trend of increasing flagship prices, I will not target them as a company for pricing the HD700 in line with their competitors prices.
 
Heck, the HD650 at $350 is already a steal for me, and I could be happy with it as my last headphone if I weren't crazy like the rest of the people here.

 

[Hennyo]

 
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with the exception of the federal bailouts.

^^.
 


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I also think it's hysterical that people balk at this headphone costing $1000, but many of those same people never complained about the original price or currently insane used price of the Orpheus.  R&D costs money, and if Sennheiser only produced as many HD700 as they did HE90 the price would be approaching that neck of the woods.  Audiophiles have always and will always justify spending whatever they think is reasonable to them for even just a slight improvement in sound quality.  No one is forcing you to buy it.  You could instead spend your own money and design your own headphone with similar styling to the HD700 and see how much it costs you to make a prototype.  I can assure you from personal experience making a one-off product isn't cheap.

 
I've been amazed at how cheap it is.
 
^^ It is. I'm doing it now.

 

 

[IPodPJ]

 
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^^.
 
 
I've been amazed at how cheap it is.
 
^^ It is. I'm doing it now.

 

Amazed at how cheap what is?  I'm not talking about making cheap parts from a place like Front Panel Express... I'm talking about making a high-quality, showroom-ready product that would be released by a company making a high-end consumer product.  Do you know what it costs to make molds, dies, or do CNC aluminum machining?
 
How many earcup and driver molds did Sennheiser have to make before they settled on a design?  How many driver iterations did they go through?  I guarantee you they spent at least $100K or more on the molds alone.  So no, making a new product is not cheap, and making a new headphone like the HD700 is really not cheap.  Let's not even take into account the major expenses like overhead:  marketing, payroll, running a major website, paying rent, electric, etc etc etc...

 

[Hennyo]

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Amazed at how cheap what is?  I'm not talking about making cheap parts from a place like Front Panel Express... I'm talking about making a high-quality, showroom-ready product that would be released by a company making a high-end consumer product.  Do you know what it costs to make molds, dies, or do CNC aluminum machining?
 
How many earcup and driver molds did Sennheiser have to make before they settled on a design?  How many driver iterations did they go through?  I guarantee you they spent at least $100K or more on the molds alone.  So no, making a new product is not cheap, and making a new headphone like the HD700 is really not cheap.
 

 
Yes, I do. I gave my educated opinion. I do not intend to argue about the costs of things here. Or how much it's costing me to do 'R&D' on diy EStats and cross reference this to BlarbojumboARLRFKIF, here. I've said enough in this thread. Noty.. We were talking about the costs of R&D in general and on the whole. I do not intend to argue about this here.
 
Hennyo
 
 

 

[antberg]

IpodPj i think people are free to say anything they want to say,even histerically,even about the price of some headphone;
in this case because i suppose they like sennheiser,and their expectation fell off because they were exited about some hi-fi headphone that should cost a little bit cheaper then 1000 dollars.because they wanted to be able to buy some hd800 similar headphone,a little cheaper.
i agree with you that a big enterprise like sennheiser have a lot of expenses (as any enterprise,little or big),but obviously they are not selling a 1000 dollar headphone with just 50 dollars of benefit,i would say,just the opposite,to make 60/75% of benefit from the whole sell price.a lot of R&D expenses to increase benefit exponentially after.