[TMRaven]

I'd probably be just fine with the HD800's bass output if there wasn't that obvious treble spike.

 

[grokit]

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The most important thing is how it sounds to the end user with their music on their system.  Nothing else should matter. 

 
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Doesn't it depend on the recording too?

 
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There are actually quite a lot of badly recorded CDs around nowadays

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Headphone frequency response in the high frequency range is largely affected by the interaction with the outer ear, and everyone has different ears.

Quoted for truth 

 

[Gwarmi]

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Headphone frequency response in the high frequency range is largely affected by the interaction with the outer ear, and everyone has different ears. Of course, it may seem that it is the same for speakers, but the fact that headphone drivers are very close to, and in a small sealed enclosure with the ears, makes it quite different. Speakers are more like natural sound sources, being relatively distant from the listener, and a speaker with a flat frequency response sounds like that more or less for everyone (with the brain compensating each person's HRTFs against distant point-like sources). With headphones, this is not the case.
 

 Still comes down to the recording though, I have fond memories of standing in the 'sweet spot' with some older
 chap who quite fancied a few piano medley  recordings that may have come from the torture rooms of Camp Gitmo.
 There we stood auditioning these Vienna Acoustic Klimt speakers (relatively flat from what I heard) with his material
 - he was standing there swaying during the medley - I was biting my lower lip as each note crashed into my ear drums.
 
 Excruciating, absolutely excruciating. Looking back he must of been deaf above 8-10Khz - no other explanation for it.

 

[rhythmdevils]

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LOL - not at all.
 
The HD 800 does not have recessed bass, but an extended natural bass - as very many people, not only me, have said.
 
I certainly don't like artificially boosted treble either - but someone mentioned earlier that this can be due to amplifier matching and damping-factor rather than being the headphones themselves.
 

 
....and many people have also said that they have boosted treble and recessed bass. 

 

[jax]

 
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I'd certainly agree with you here too.  Fortunately it is not always the case and there are also some very well recorded stuff out there.  But yes, sadly it is becoming the exception.
 
 

 


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....and many people have also said that they have boosted treble and recessed bass.  Come on man, are you really going to sit here making these ridiculous absolute claims? 

From my own experiences of the HD800 I found the treble to be the deal-breaker for me, at least with the few amps I tried it with.  It was elevated enough to cause fatigue for me.  I did like the headphones a whole lot otherwise, especially for the other edge of that sword - the apparent boost in detail and resolution.  The point about the treble having a psycho-acoustic affect on how someone might perceive the bass is right to the point of my pointing out how different two headphones (or speakers) might sound in spite of their frequency response being somewhat similar (I don't think the HD800's are similar at all in the treble region to the LCD-2 if I recall).  I liked them enough to be seduced to try them again with a different amp someday, and to have a whole lot of curiosity how this HD700 will sound.  I did find them bass-light to my own preferences, and I am far from being a bass-head. 
 

 

[TMRaven]

Yes it's pretty blatant what Sennheiser's doing with the HD800-- adding some faux detail with a treble spike.  Very much an audiophile touch.  A lot of people wouldn't consider that natural at all.  Definitely not speaker natural.
 
It's a nice touch for some very well recorded and mastered songs, but it can also otherwise step over the mids and/or absolutely destroy lesser recordings.

 

[logwed]

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Yes it's pretty blatant what Sennheiser's doing with the HD800-- adding some faux detail with a treble spike.  Very much an audiophile touch.  A lot of people wouldn't consider that natural at all.  Definitely not speaker natural.
 
It's a nice touch for some very well recorded and mastered songs, but it can also otherwise step over the mids and/or absolutely destroy lesser recordings.

Because there are no speakers with emphasized treble?

 

[ac500]

The HD800 vs LCD2 holy war I think is something that will never end. This being an HD700 thread though, I'd have to give my preference to the HD700/HD800 side simply due to "preferential territory". In other words when you have two top-end competing products which nobody agrees which is better, fans of brand X don't go flame the fans of brand Y over in their thread. It would be like a Ferrari owner flaming people in a Lamborghini thread and trying to convince them their opinion is wrong.
 
We just have to admit that no consensus will agree that either is better than the other any time soon, and beyond that, try to respect differing personal preferences - assuming of course the argument that headphones sound different to different people.

 

[jax]

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The HD800 vs LCD2 holy war I think is something that will never end. This being an HD700 thread though, I'd have to give my preference to the HD700/HD800 side simply due to "preferential territory". In other words when you have two top-end competing products which nobody agrees which is better, fans of brand X don't go flame the fans of brand Y over in their thread. It would be like a Ferrari owner flaming people in a Lamborghini thread and trying to convince them their opinion is wrong.
 
We just have to admit that no consensus will agree that either is better than the other any time soon, and beyond that, try to respect differing personal preferences - assuming of course the argument that headphones sound different to different people.

IMHO you could not have two more entirely different headphones.  There is no contest as far as each one's strengths go - it becomes a matter of either which flavor you prefer, or having both to suit variable preferences.  One will never do what the other exceeds in doing so well so any war or argument is pretty pointless, IMO.  Its simply a matter of personal tastes.  Indeed, both are excellent headphones, but I can certainly see where someone who very strongly preferred one, may really not like the other just because they are so different.  Lamorghini and Ferrari are so esoteric and expensive and pointedly aimed at performance that is not practical in real-world applications (driving around town or any public road - not that it wouldn't be fun

), not to mention that 99.999999999% of the world population can not even afford to own or even insure one, nor would most, I'd venture, think of owning one even if they could afford it...I mean really, how many people actually own those cars compared to other car owners?  I think the ratio is grain of sand on a beach compared to the far greater ratio of those who own/enjoy these headphones over others .  The metaphor does not gel for me.  The cars are just not accessible in so many ways. 
 

 

[TMRaven]

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Because there are no speakers with emphasized treble?

Not any that I've heard.  I've no doubt there are some out there, but I've never personally heard any hi-fi'ish speaker in its default state from a reputable company with as much of a treble spike as some of the audiophile headphones on the market.

 

[Saintly]

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Yes it's pretty blatant what Sennheiser's doing with the HD800-- adding some faux detail with a treble spike.  Very much an audiophile touch.  A lot of people wouldn't consider that natural at all.  Definitely not speaker natural.
 
It's a nice touch for some very well recorded and mastered songs, but it can also otherwise step over the mids and/or absolutely destroy lesser recordings.

Do you consider your DT 990s natural?
 

 

[TMRaven]

Nope, definitely not.  And neither the Denons.  They both rock a mean treble spike.  

 

[christophrowley]

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Originally Posted by jax /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Lamorghini and Ferrari are so esoteric and expensive and pointedly aimed at performance that is not practical in real-world applications (driving around town or any public road - not that it wouldn't be fun

), not to mention that 99.999999999% of the world population can not even afford to own or even insure one, nor would most, I'd venture, think of owning one even if they could afford it...I mean really, how many people actually own those cars compared to other car owners?  I think the ratio is grain of sand on a beach compared to the far greater ratio of those who own/enjoy these headphones over others .  The metaphor does not gel for me.  The cars are just not accessible in so many ways. 
 

 
How does the number of Lamborghini/Ferrari owners affect the metaphor? I wouldn't be surprised if >99% of the fans of Lamborghini/Ferrari have never driven one but that doesn't stop them arguing about which is superior. Even then, I'm not sure what that matters given that, as I read it, ac500 only compared the "your opinion is wrong" style of the argument to that of the LCD-2/HD800. I thought it was a pretty accurate comparison, anyway.

 

[Saintly]

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Nope, definitely not.  And neither the Denons.  They both rock a mean treble spike.  

And both have their mids trampled by the bass and treble boost?
 
I don't find that nearly as big of a problem on the HD 800.

 

[TMRaven]

Actually I don't really find either of their mids trampled by the bass-- only the treble.  Every flat and extending pair of speakers I've heard has produced more full-bodied and encompassing bass than either of the two headphones.  The denons were more speaker-like in that sense, but a tiny bit bloated.
 
The HD800s on the other hand.  A bit underpowered bass and too much treble.
 
All just imo of course.