[paulguru]

excuse me, is it normall this headphone make me slight pain on my tympanums when i listen high frequency sound for long time ? 
For example when i play or watch movie ..... when i listen high rpm motor engine like Formula 1 or Moto, after 15-20m i got headache and pain. 

 

[StanD]

  Yeah the idea of scaling sounds dumb until you hear what it can do.
 
The HD600 has the potential to perform on a highly level precisely because it's more neutral and true to the signal it is fed, like you said. If the HD600 was an overly colored piece of crap, obviously it wouldn't be able to reflect changes in source and amplification. Sounds like you agree with me

 
 
If we're talking about amplification and "power" then the quantity is not what I'm talking about. It's about quality. The quantity or "it gets loud enough" argument is a distraction.

Yep, but good quality amps are very easy to find these days. Perhaps we're differing on semantics about scaling.

 

[OJNeg]

Well you seemed to imply that the HD600 doesn't change or improve with better amplification, a point which I disagree with. Of course we should let everyone form their own opinion on how concrete the differences may or may not be. So if someone does notice a difference between different components I feel the need to chime in before the "it all sounds the same" mob blacks out the sun. I guess it bothers me on a certain level to know that a lot of HD600 lovers aren't getting the most out of it because they think all amps/DACs sound the same. Live and let live....it's their system not mine
 
FWIW, I was part of the first wave of people to build the O2 and I was convinced it was the pinnacle of audio amplifier design based off the philosophy behind it. Then I was stupid enough to listen to other gear

  So when you say "good quality amps are every easy to find", maybe we should examine that a bit more...or not, easier to leave that definition ambiguous so that we can both "agree"
 
At this point, I'm probably

. Audio is a funny thing like that.

 

[James-uk]

Well you seemed to imply that the HD600 doesn't change or improve with better amplification, a point which I disagree with. Of course we should let everyone form their own opinion on how concrete the differences may or may not be. So if someone does notice a difference between different components I feel the need to chime in before the "it all sounds the same" mob blacks out the sun. I guess it bothers me on a certain level to know that a lot of HD600 lovers aren't getting the most out of it because they think all amps/DACs sound the same. Live and let live....it's their system not mine

FWIW, I was part of the first wave of people to build the O2 and I was convinced it was the pinnacle of audio amplifier design based off the philosophy behind it. Then I was stupid enough to listen to other gear :eek:   So when you say "good quality amps are every easy to find", maybe we should examine that a bit more...or not, easier to leave that definition ambiguous so that we can both "agree"

At this point, I'm probably . Audio is a funny thing like that.

I think you are missing the point Stan is making. All amplifiers that are designed to be 'transparent' sound the same . That isn't really up for debate anymore it's just a fact that that some people can't seem to grasp even given the evidence to support it. Now it appears you have found an amp that isn't transparent and you prefer the sound, that is also fine and nothing can compete with a listeners subjective taste. Even if your new amp actually sounds the same as an O2 if you were to blind test yourself it doesn't mean that the new amp doesn't still sound better to you. If we want to think the expensive fancy tube amp sounds better then it will. My advice to someone looking for an amp with the HD600 would be to get one of the many, cheap transparent amps available if they want to hear the HD600 shine as a clean , clear window into the music that extracts the maximum from the recording . This is how I prefer to hear the HD600 And It also suits my subjective taste . It sounds fantastic to me this way. Now that's not to say that someone else may prefer a coloured sound from the HD600 via a tube amp or a poorly designed SS one. only they can work that out for themselves but we have a duty to make the difference clear when it comes to recommending amps. It's easy to recommend a transparent Amp but it's impossible to recommend a flawed amp that changes the sound or influences bias based and price /looks/ weight etc! Only the end listeners experience can decide that for themselves.

 

[krismusic]

excuse me, is it normall this headphone make me slight pain on my tympanums when i listen high frequency sound for long time ? 

For example when i play or watch movie ..... when i listen high rpm motor engine like Formula 1 or Moto, after 15-20m i got headache and pain. 

Are you listening at high volume?

.

 

[StanD]

I think you are missing the point Stan is making. All amplifiers that are designed to be 'transparent' sound the same . That isn't really up for debate anymore it's just a fact that that some people can't seem to grasp even given the evidence to support it. Now it appears you have found an amp that isn't transparent and you prefer the sound, that is also fine and nothing can compete with a listeners subjective taste. Even if your new amp actually sounds the same as an O2 if you were to blind test yourself it doesn't mean that the new amp doesn't still sound better to you. If we want to think the expensive fancy tube amp sounds better then it will. My advice to someone looking for an amp with the HD600 would be to get one of the many, cheap transparent amps available if they want to hear the HD600 shine as a clean , clear window into the music that extracts the maximum from the recording . This is how I prefer to hear the HD600 And It also suits my subjective taste . It sounds fantastic to me this way. Now that's not to say that someone else may prefer a coloured sound from the HD600 via a tube amp or a poorly designed SS one. only they can work that out for themselves but we have a duty to make the difference clear when it comes to recommending amps. It's easy to recommend a transparent Amp but it's impossible to recommend a flawed amp that changes the sound or influences bias based and price /looks/ weight etc! Only the end listeners experience can decide that for themselves.

+1 

 

[Shaffer]

I've been involved with audio for ~40 years, ~30 years in the high-performance sector of the market. Have yet to hear a transparent amplifier. Ever. Of course here, on Head-Fi, where the denizens are mostly kids who haven't heard *****, or older bottom-feeders who also haven't heard much and have no way to differentiate between quality and crap - transparent amplifiers do exists and for ~$100. There has to be a point where one gets sick of the fairy tales and the highly misleading claims. Really.

 

[krismusic]

.

 

[krismusic]

quote name="Shaffer" url="/t/538255/sennheiser-hd-600-impressions-thread/11580#post_11631045"]I've been involved with audio for ~40 years, ~30 years in the high-performance sector of the market. Have yet to hear a transparent amplifier. Ever. Of course here, on Head-Fi, where the denizens are mostly kids who haven't heard *****, or older bottom-feeders who also haven't heard much and have no way to differentiate between quality and crap - transparent amplifiers do exists and for ~$100. There has to be a point where one gets sick of the fairy tales and the highly misleading claims. Really.[/quote]

My hearing is far from great. I am 59. When I listen to my iPhone 5s through the O2, all that I can hear is a change in volume. Nothing else. I have had other amplifiers that I can definitely hear alter the sound. Not for the better! I am perfectly prepared to listen to someone with as much time in audio as you but I reckon the O2 is transparent.

 

[Shaffer]

My hearing is far from great. I am 59. When I listen to my iPhone 5s through the O2, all that I can hear is a change in volume. Nothing else. I have had other amplifiers that I can definitely hear alter the sound. Not for the better! I am perfectly prepared to listen to someone with as much time in audio as you but I reckon the O2 is transparent.

That's because the O2 sounds like a paper bag, and the iphone isn't exactly a reference grade playback system. Do you even play lossless files?

As for your age and HF loss, a common statement on this site and just as ignorant, you need to understand that an experienced listener heard the sub-harmonics of very high frequencies, allowing the brain to think they're present.

 

[krismusic]

That's because the O2 sounds like a paper bag, and the iphone isn't exactly a reference grade playback system. Do you even play lossless files?

As for your age and HF loss, a common statement on this site and just as ignorant, you need to understand that an experienced listener heard the sub-harmonics of very high frequencies, allowing the brain to think they're present.

Hmm. I think we will have to differ on the SQ of the O2. The iPhone too for that matter. I understand that both items measure extremely well. That to one side, I reckon that the quality of what I am listening to is better than anything that I have owned before.
Regarding my hearing, I had a test recently. My extreme treble is very good but I have loss at 4k due to power tool use at work. I also have Tinnitus. I'm looking forward to hearing more exalted gear at London CanJam. Although I do find that expectation bias is very hard to ignore on a brief listen.

 

[StanD]

That's because the O2 sounds like a paper bag, and the iphone isn't exactly a reference grade playback system. Do you even play lossless files?

As for your age and HF loss, a common statement on this site and just as ignorant, you need to understand that an experienced listener heard the sub-harmonics of very high frequencies, allowing the brain to think they're present.

There have been enough studies about lossless files and hres to illustrate that people really can't hear the difference except for some fringe cases of moderate to highly compressed files. Filling in the subharmonics will not make a difference since achieving a flar FR is commonplace putting amps on an equal footing.

 

[krismusic]

There have been enough studies about lossless files and hres to illustrate that people really can't hear the difference except for some fringe cases of moderate to highly compressed files. Filling in the subharmonics will not make a difference since achieving a flar FR is commonplace putting amps on an equal footing.

I forgot to say. No. I do not use lossless files as I cannot hear the difference beyond 320kbps.

 

[Shaffer]

There have been enough studies about lossless files and hres to illustrate that people really can't hear the difference except for some fringe cases of moderate to highly compressed files.

And, there are quite a few studies showing the opposite. Search AES for Jim Johnston's papers. Regardless, I have a study of my own, my ears, as do a multitude of others who happen not to subscribe to a religious outlook. Citing science in the name of religion. Wonderful. Nice to be back in 1634.

Filling in the subharmonics will not make a difference since achieving a flar FR is commonplace putting amps on an equal footing.

What?

Take an amp that's flat to 20K. Say, one hears to 16K. He can still tell the 20K info is there due to its subharmonics. It's not a subject for debate.

 

[Shaffer]

Hmm. I think we will have to differ on the SQ of the O2. The iPhone too for that matter. I understand that both items measure extremely well. That to one side, I reckon that the quality of what I am listening to is better than anything that I have owned before.

Fair enough. Makes perfect sense.

Regarding my hearing, I had a test recently. My extreme treble is very good but I have loss at 4k due to power tool use at work. I also have Tinnitus. I'm looking forward to hearing more exalted gear at London CanJam. Although I do find that expectation bias is very hard to ignore on a brief listen.

Sorry to hear about the Tinnitus....