[Midgetguy]

Well thanks. I guess I'll keep my R70x for now, since it and the HD600 are the same tier. From all the posts I've read it's HD600<R70x<HD650. I heard nothing about the HD660S or HD6XX

I'd say in your scenario, unless you got a chance to actually listen to the HD600 first, don't buy (unless you're rich, in which case, sure why the hell not?). The HD600 and HD650 are on equal footing to me, different sound signature. My brother has the HD650, I have the HD600; I bought mine after listening to his and took the chance I'd like the HD600 better. Got it right, luckily. Supposedly the HD660S will be sort of like the HD600, but with better bass extension characteristics and minus the mid peak, but I haven't personally listened to it, so don't know how to characterize its sound signature. The HD6XX is basically a Massdrop finished HD650, very slight tweaks maybe, but by and large, just consider it to be the HD650 with a paint job and a much better price than the original.

 

[ruinedx]

the HD600s are great but not perfect, otherwise HD800S and HD820 wouldn't exist.

I guess I should just skip to the $1000-$1500 domain? The HD800S exceeds my budget already, the HD820 is closed so I have no use for it, and the HD800 I heard has terrible highs. What's a good, flat, neutral open headphone for $1000-1500?

I've owned the HD600, HD700, HD800, and HD820 and spent significant time with the HD800S

The HD600 measures the most flat/neutral and I also felt it sounded by far the worst of the lot. Collapsed soundstage, boring sound. It was also the least comfortable fitting.

The HD700 measures the worst in terms of neutrality but I would say it is overall 2nd best sounding of the above four I owned. Great soundstage, engaging sound. I would say it is the most comfortable fitting of all as well.

The HD800 was the most impressive at first but overall it was just too harsh and also did not have enough bass, I had to sell it. No matter what I paired it with I couldn't tame the highs nor fix the lows. The best soundstage and detail of all but I would also rank it 2nd worst of the above 4 I owned. I spent some significant time with the HD800S and felt it wasnt different enough from the HD800 to warrant a purchase, as it still had similar issues, just far less magnified.

The HD820 (which is only partially closed) overall had the best sound, by far, despite measuring 2nd worst in terms of neutrality out of the 4. It is like they blended the HD700 with the HD800S and I think the HD820 has brought the best sound to date I have heard in a headphone. Great soundstage, great detail but not too harsh, good bass without being flabby. Works with all genres, too. Note that while the HD820 is my favorite headphone I am keeping the HD700 since I like it so much also.

If you are pursuing the most neutral measuring headphone the HD600 is the way to go but I don't know why one would pursue that. Most find truly neutral and colorless sound to be terrible sounding, but most have never gotten to hear that in an anechoic chamber so they are unaware of what it truly sounds like.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I've owned the HD600, HD700, HD800, and HD820 and spent significant time with the HD800S

The HD600 measures the most flat/neutral and I also felt it sounded by far the worst of the lot. Collapsed soundstage, boring sound. It was also the least comfortable fitting.

What amp(s) did you use the 600s with?

 

[ruinedx]

What amp(s) did you use the 600s with?

Musical fidelity mx-dac / mx-hpa
Oppo ha1
Parasound zDac2

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Musical fidelity mx-dac / mx-hpa
Oppo ha1
Parasound zDac2

Your description of the sound is typical of underdriven 600s. I'm surprised the 600s didn't sound good out of your Oppo. It looks like would have plenty of power.

 

[Voxata]

I'd say in your scenario, unless you got a chance to actually listen to the HD600 first, don't buy (unless you're rich, in which case, sure why the hell not?). The HD600 and HD650 are on equal footing to me, different sound signature. My brother has the HD650, I have the HD600; I bought mine after listening to his and took the chance I'd like the HD600 better. Got it right, luckily. Supposedly the HD660S will be sort of like the HD600, but with better bass extension characteristics and minus the mid peak, but I haven't personally listened to it, so don't know how to characterize its sound signature. The HD6XX is basically a Massdrop finished HD650, very slight tweaks maybe, but by and large, just consider it to be the HD650 with a paint job and a much better price than the original.

I own both the 660S & 600. The 600 I prefer for music. Relax and enjoy. The 660S is for gaming and more well mastered music. Much better positional accuracy but less euphoric in its sound.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

‘Euphoric’
I love that word. To my ears, what most folks describe as ‘the veil’, is actually this smooth line running across the frequencies. There are no big bursts of energy to be found other than the ones found in the music.
If one then additionally feels euphorically charged by love/sunshine/booze/oranges..the sky is the limit.

 

[CaptainFantastic]

I've owned the HD600, HD700, HD800, and HD820 and spent significant time with the HD800S

The HD600 measures the most flat/neutral and I also felt it sounded by far the worst of the lot. Collapsed soundstage, boring sound. It was also the least comfortable fitting.

You must be doing something wrong or you had a defective unit. It sounds like you gave them a real test, so this is not your case, but I have encountered a few people who automatically equate a "flat" frequency response to a boring sound.

As for sound stage, if you compared the HD-600 next to the kings of sound stage, the 800-series, of course it sounded limited. It has been commented at length that the sound stage of the HD-800 is unnaturally wide. If you go to the HD-600 after it, your ears are tuned to something completely different.

To me the closer experience of the HD-600, the "intimate" sound stage is one of their wow-factors, creating exactly the opposite of a boring sound. Vocals don't get better than this, and IMHO nothing in music can stimulate our emotions as much as vocals (my ultimate experience being El Cor Orfeo Catala in a live performance at the Palau de la Musica Catalana).

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I don't find the soundstage of the 800s that remarkable. I did find it remarkable that anybody would say that the 600s were by far the worst. Hard to spot the cause based on the quality of the info presented. Really surpising to me.

 

[theaudiologist1]

What amp(s) did you use the 600s with?

I want to ask something regarding amps. Copypasta from the Chord Mojo thread:

Will using an expensive DAC with a cheap amp degrade the overall sound quality? I have a DAC/AMP that's the same tier and price as the Mojo and iDSD BL, and the DAC portion is great, but the amp is weak. Is a cheap $200 Amp like the A5 a good way to increase the power and sound quality of my DAC, or will it make the sound even worse (since the amp is cheaper and less clean than the DAC's built-in amp despite being stronger) and make the DAC section useless (since most of the SQ depends on the amp section)? Or is it better to just shove in another $600 for a Mojo/iDSD BL?

 

[ruinedx]

Your description of the sound is typical of underdriven 600s. I'm surprised the 600s didn't sound good out of your Oppo. It looks like would have plenty of power.

I actually thought the Oppo sounded terrible with all of the headphones I listed. Lots of power (why I bought it) but way too bright, so the more bright headphones sounded painful at times - but all bad. The musical fidelity had a lot of power also but was a bit too dark. Parasound had a nice tonal balance but too weak in power. I am using an evga nu audio soundcard/hpa right now and so far that has the best power/tone balance of any hpa/dac I've tried despite it being cheaper than all of the above. At some point I'd like to try a Phonitor X but I'm pretty much afraid to spend that much money now that I am 100% satisfied with my current setup given all the money I spent getting to this point.

I think the main issue was that the HD600 sounded too much like headphones, lol - much like all the other headphones I've ever owned. The main draws of the hd700-hd8xx is that they sounded more like speakers to me than headphones and I feel that reflected sort of sound is more natural sounding . The hd700 & hd820 were the first headphones I've ever had that I prefer to using over a speaker; their design presents a speaker-like soundstage and I need that for an engaging headphone presentation.

 

[ToTo Man]

HD600 soundstage is VERY amp dependant. Pair it with a SS amp like the Schiit Jotunheim which has an inherently narrow and compressed soundstage and the HD600 produces a claustrophobic "inside the head" image. However, pair it with a good tube amp, or even a hybrid-tube amp like the Schiit Mjolnir 2, and the HD600 is transformed into a very open-sounding headphone with amazing space, decay and separation between instruments. The difference is pretty amazing. HD600 paired with a Schiit Mjolnir 2 fitted with Siemens PCC88 (1963) tubes or similar, plus a bit of low-end bass EQ boost, comes pretty close to an end-game combo IMO.

 

[ksorota]

HD600 soundstage is VERY amp dependant. Pair it with a SS amp like the Schiit Jotunheim which has an inherently narrow and compressed soundstage and the HD600 produces a claustrophobic "inside the head" image. However, pair it with a good tube amp, or even a hybrid-tube amp like the Schiit Mjolnir 2, and the HD600 is transformed into a very open-sounding headphone with amazing space, decay and separation between instruments. The difference is pretty amazing. HD600 paired with a Schiit Mjolnir 2 fitted with Siemens PCC88 (1963) tubes or similar, plus a bit of low-end bass EQ boost, comes pretty close to an end-game combo IMO.

I agree with this 100%
I have been listening to the HD600 on a modified Monoprice Liquid Platinum and could not believe the level of detail, slam, headstage and enjoyment that it provided. I put it on a level above the GSX mini for engagement and overall enjoyment. I am having a hard time getting over the fact that I have tried many headphones at prices from 200-2000$ and I cannot think of another one I would rather listen to right now over the HD600. I am tempted to get a HD650/6XX, but I dont think I need to.

 

[bagwell359]

HD600 soundstage is VERY amp dependant. Pair it with a SS amp like the Schiit Jotunheim which has an inherently narrow and compressed soundstage and the HD600 produces a claustrophobic "inside the head" image. However, pair it with a good tube amp, or even a hybrid-tube amp like the Schiit Mjolnir 2, and the HD600 is transformed into a very open-sounding headphone with amazing space, decay and separation between instruments. The difference is pretty amazing. HD600 paired with a Schiit Mjolnir 2 fitted with Siemens PCC88 (1963) tubes or similar, plus a bit of low-end bass EQ boost, comes pretty close to an end-game combo IMO.

Close, but not quite. Any amp that produces enough voltage for the 600 is going to get very good results, OTL tubes are the most obvious path, but as you point out there are others. I wouldn't say the Jotunheim has an inherently narrow soundstage. Put a low impedance planar on them and you're fine. I have a Ragnarok I that produces a soundstage on my modified HE-500 that crushes my HD-600 on a Bottlehead Crack w/ speedball - width, height, and depth - but the Rag doesn't do the same for the 600 despite being a brute of an amp any for any planar including the HE-6. On the Crack the 600 is far better than on the Rag 1.

 

[bagwell359]

I don't find the soundstage of the 800s that remarkable. I did find it remarkable that anybody would say that the 600s were by far the worst. Hard to spot the cause based on the quality of the info presented. Really surpising to me.

800S's on the right sort of equipment has a vast soundstage width I have found. Except of the BH Crack w/ speedball - which really makes the 600 sing I have near heard a soundstage out of it that was anything but mediocre. That includes my Ragnarok 1. OTOH my HE-500, HE6se, and HEX v2 all produce far better soundstages than my 600 on the Rag - which is why I have BH Crack kit here waiting for me to finish my very busy summer so I can concentrate and build it.