[yangian]

Actually there is no evidence burn in will help - quite the opposite actually (there is more actual evidence that burn-in or break-in effects are so small to be questionable as far as audibility goes with headphones/earphones). You will get more difference in frequency response from moving them on your head a little, or in the condition of the pads.

My advice - just use them.

Interestingly Sennheiser (like Shure and most of the other large manufacturers) don't make any claims re burn-in. SHure engineers even said it would make no difference. The only ones making claims are the smaller boutique operators. Ask them for evidence (frequency response plots) showing evidence of burn-in. You won't get replies.

Some products need burn-in, that's fact. Who care whatever frequency response charts or who said what. But I agree you that 600 showed no detectable change of sound and whatever it'd get changed, just use it.

 

[Arin7]

This is so annoyingly frequent. And usually to the right. Drives me crazy, too.

That's odd mine is towards left...but I felt for long time that my right ear is slightly muffled compared to the left ear, its not confirmed by Dr though...I've felt this way long before I purchased any Sennheiser product, but it is far more annoying when you know the problem is with the ear itself and not headphone

 

[Brooko]

Some products need burn-in, that's fact. Who care whatever frequency response charts or who said what. But I agree you that 600 showed no detectable change of sound and whatever it'd get changed, just use it.

Please provide evidence to that "fact" - and I don't mean speakers - I mean headphones. Just one. And real evidence of change please - not anecdotal "well I heard ...."

Hint - you won't find any.

 

[yangian]

Please provide evidence to that "fact" - and I don't mean speakers - I mean headphones. Just one. And real evidence of change please - not anecdotal "well I heard ...."

Hint - you won't find any.

Many people can list many. At least for IEMs with dynamic drivers. Shure have only BAs, so no need to burn-in.
SO you agree speakers need burn-in? Then why you think DD headphones need not?

 

[Brooko]

Many people can list many. At least for IEMs with dynamic drivers. Shure have only BAs, so no need to burn-in.
SO you agree speakers need burn-in? Then why you think DD headphones need not?

Shure has both dynamics and BA's. Their engineers have publicly stated that their earphones don't require burn-in (http://www.shure.com/americas/support/find-an-answer/burning-in-earphones-or-breaking-in-earphones)

Speakers have a surround called a Spider which most earphones and headphones (even dynamics) don't have.

And I didn't ask what others can list. You made the claim - produce the evidence please. Again - you won't find any which proves audible burn-in, even on headphones. Tyll did a masterful piece on the Q701 - a headphone which was widely said to require 100's of hours break-in. He did notice very small measurement changes which may indicate break-in, but are so minute the change would be difficult to hear. The actual placement on the hear would cause magnitudes more frequency change than any burn-in, and at least is both clearly measurable and clearly audible.

So the claims of break-in making a difference are more likely to be - condition/compression of pads, positioning on head, even slight changes in volume (how do you know people testing same track at same volume days apart?).

I'm sorry - but the actual evidence is against you on this. Quite happy if you believe in it - its not hurting anyone after all. But publicly stating it as fact (when there is no evidence) helps no-one, and simply perpetuates a myth.

 

[Midgetguy]

How much burning in does HD600 need? I assume around 200h. Sounds awesome already...30h

My advice: stop caring about any of this "cables make it sound better" or "burn-in makes it sound better" talk.
Cable too long or you don't like how it feels? Buy a shorter cable or one that feels softer or more flexible or whatever quality you want to see in your cable.

Plug in, hit play on your favorite tunes, relax. Don't like the sound? Not the headphone for you. That's how I live my headphone life and it has yet to fail me, nor do I ever see it doing so. Plugged in HD600, plugged in TH-X00, first listen, loved both. Plugged in the likes of the HD800, Utopia, SR-009, didn't like them as much. So be it, move on. If it sounds good to you, stop caring about all the talk of "put this cable on it" or "burn it in some more"; you'll find that in the end, all you've really done is spend time that you could've used just enjoying the music.

 

[Arin7]

About the burn-in, I am sorry to jump in the middle of your conversation guys, I am not sure if I understand what dispute is exactly about but I asked Sennheiser about the burn in for the models HD598, HD599 and HD600 they said they do indeed sound different after they have burned in. first when I bought HD600 I had that vailed feeling but now its all gone! I feel they are a bit brighter, I can hear more details effortlessly and has bit more bass now compared to how they sounded out of box.

 

[Brooko]

Did you ask their engineers, or was it a rep at a store? There is a huge difference between Marketing and fact.

You might also want to read this - https://sennheiserusa.happyfox.com/kb/article/130-what-is-sennheisers-stance-on-burn-in-theory

Sound like someone who promotes burn-in?

first when I bought HD600 I had that vailed feeling but now its all gone! I feel they are a bit brighter, I can hear more details effortlessly and has bit more bass now compared to how they sounded out of box.

You realise our actual auditory memory really only last a matter of seconds right. You asked about burn-in, someone "told you" it exists. You expect to hear a change. You think you hear a change. Expectation bias at work.

 

[yangian]

Shure has both dynamics and BA's. Their engineers have publicly stated that their earphones don't require burn-in (http://www.shure.com/americas/support/find-an-answer/burning-in-earphones-or-breaking-in-earphones)

Speakers have a surround called a Spider which most earphones and headphones (even dynamics) don't have.

And I didn't ask what others can list. You made the claim - produce the evidence please. Again - you won't find any which proves audible burn-in, even on headphones. Tyll did a masterful piece on the Q701 - a headphone which was widely said to require 100's of hours break-in. He did notice very small measurement changes which may indicate break-in, but are so minute the change would be difficult to hear. The actual placement on the hear would cause magnitudes more frequency change than any burn-in, and at least is both clearly measurable and clearly audible.

So the claims of break-in making a difference are more likely to be - condition/compression of pads, positioning on head, even slight changes in volume (how do you know people testing same track at same volume days apart?).

I'm sorry - but the actual evidence is against you on this. Quite happy if you believe in it - its not hurting anyone after all. But publicly stating it as fact (when there is no evidence) helps no-one, and simply perpetuates a myth.

All Sennheiser IEMs that I have, including IE800/80, CX980, have difference after burn-in. I ever have two Monoprice 8320, one is brand new and one is used. So I can compared them directly and their sound are difference.
Moreover, I found everytime I listen to IE80 after a long time retreat, it sounds pretty veiled. after a couple hours listening, it get much cleaner. I have listened to it more than 1000 hours. I don't know why, but that's what I experienced.
Actually I don't believe several hundred hours burn-in. But you made such a strong and absolute claim to any headphone, that's make no sense to me at all.

 

[Brooko]

All Sennheiser IEMs that I have, including IE800/80, CX980, have difference after burn-in. I ever have two Monoprice 8320, one is brand new and one is used. So I can compared them directly and their sound are difference.
Moreover, I found everytime I listen to IE80 after a long time retreat, it sounds pretty veiled. after a couple hours listening, it get much cleaner. I have listened to it more than 1000 hours. I don't know why, but that's what I experienced.
Actually I don't believe several hundred hours burn-in. But you made such a strong and absolute claim to any headphone, that's make no sense to me at all.

Anecdotal differences

Take a headphone - especially an IEM (brand new). Put it on a coupler. Secure the coupler so it can't move. Measure. Play 50 hours, 100 hours of whatever you want. Re-measure. That is being completely objective. Guarantee you won't see the changes you are talking about. Why - because people have actually done it - and there were not enough significant change to result in meaningful audible difference.

Lets see what you've put forward as proof.

1. Apparently all earphones you've listened to have "changed" - this proves burn in.
   Wrong. It is not measured, and we don't know what factors may have been contributing to the differences you heard. Here are some of the things which will make a difference.
   - condition of tips
   - angle of insertion
   - depth of insertion
   - volume you were listening to
   - song you were listening to
   - what you were listening for
   Your reliable auditory memory is fleeting. You don't know what the changes you "heard" are, you certainly cannot reproduce the exact conditions, and you don't know what the original comparison was either - so how can you tell if anything changed. Expectation comes into it. There are so many factors - yet it must be break-in. Sorry, No. The only way you can reliably tell is to measure - and so far there are no studies showing a difference. Shure (one of the largest manufacturers on the planet - and they rely on measurements) says no. Yet you say yes and must be right? You realise how that sounds right?
   
   
2. You have two Monoprice so you can compare directly - this proves burn in
   Wrong. You have two different earphones which will have manufacturing differences plus all the things I mentioned above also apply.
   
   
3. "I found everytime I listen to IE80 after a long time retreat, it sounds pretty veiled. after a couple hours listening, it get much cleaner. I have listened to it more than 1000 hours. I don't know why, but that's what I experienced."
   What you're talking about is psycho-acoustic burn-in. Your brain is amazingly adaptive. It adjusts over time, and is constantly applying its own filter over everything we do. I've used this example a lot - and its apt seeing as how we are on the HD600 thread, and veering off-topic. I have the HD600 and also a pair of Grado/Alessandro (I've owned many - currently the MS Pro). If I listen to the HD600 without listening to anything else, it sounds beautifully tonally balanced, with excellent timbre. After an hour or so listening, I switch to the MS Pro. The Pro sounds harsh, bright, narrow sound stage, very little bass. Give it another 10-15 minutes with the MS Pro, and they start to sound exciting, with a great mid-range, excellent detail, and with bass which is punchy, and the whole experience is fast and edgy. Continue listening for another 30 minutes or so. Go back to the HD600. It sounds slow, dull, veiled, bass is quite muddy and a little bloated. Listen to it for another 10 minutes, and it returns to what you first started with.
   
   Did either headphone change (break in)? Of course not - both have had 100s of hours playing (the hD600 is 15+ years old so it will be thousands by now). What changed is my comparative perception of them. My brain simply put its filter over what I heard. Now apply that to the measured results we have, and also the anecdotal claims which are made. Which makes more sense. Break-in, or something else.

Anyway - we are veering away from the HD600 with this discussion. if you'd like to debate it, I can refer to a lot of measurements etc which I've taken and also others (like Tyll's epic trials). But lets do it in its own thread. PM me if you like and I'll set a thread up in Sound Science.

 

[Audioholic123]

Regarding burn-in, there has only ever been one headphone that i've owned that I noticed a definite difference in sound quality after around 2 months of use. It was an AKG K702 (austrian made). The sound was audibly different after 2 months and it remained different.

BTW i've owned more than 30 other headphones since I owned the K702 (including other AKG's) yet as I said it's the only headphone I've ever owned that the sound definitely changed. So because of this one headphone, I believe in burn-in..though only for AKG's.

 

[Pedro Oliveira]

This is so annoyingly frequent. And usually to the right. Drives me crazy, too.

What is odd and makes me not want to bother with warranty service is that it is not really a inbalance.... everything seems well divided between the right and left drivers and nothing feels louder than anything.... its just that on some tracks, you expect some stuff (ususally the voices or the beat on a edm track) to appear at the center and it seems like they are slightly tilted towards one of the sides.... like 5% or less but its a tiny bit distracting at times. What is even weirder is that sometimes i feel this, sometimes i dont and everything seems as it should be.... i am actually developing a new theory that goes in line with the quote below....

That's odd mine is towards left...but I felt for long time that my right ear is slightly muffled compared to the left ear, its not confirmed by Dr though...I've felt this way long before I purchased any Sennheiser product, but it is far more annoying when you know the problem is with the ear itself and not headphone

as stated by some the hd600 as a peak that can be a pain in the ass. There are times in wich i may have to take the hd600 off after 5 minutes because i start getting a bit of buzzing on my ears ( now not so much because i have gotten a bit used to this). So my theory about the "inbalance" may be also a mix of tired ears (i feel this mostly at night) with the peak so many talk about. For example i am using the hd600s right now and everything seems fine.... its so weird..

 

[yangian]

Anecdotal differences

Take a headphone - especially an IEM (brand new). Put it on a coupler. Secure the coupler so it can't move. Measure. Play 50 hours, 100 hours of whatever you want. Re-measure. That is being completely objective. Guarantee you won't see the changes you are talking about. Why - because people have actually done it - and there were not enough significant change to result in meaningful audible difference.

Lets see what you've put forward as proof.

1. Apparently all earphones you've listened to have "changed" - this proves burn in.
   Wrong. It is not measured, and we don't know what factors may have been contributing to the differences you heard. Here are some of the things which will make a difference.
   - condition of tips
   - angle of insertion
   - depth of insertion
   - volume you were listening to
   - song you were listening to
   - what you were listening for
   Your reliable auditory memory is fleeting. You don't know what the changes you "heard" are, you certainly cannot reproduce the exact conditions, and you don't know what the original comparison was either - so how can you tell if anything changed. Expectation comes into it. There are so many factors - yet it must be break-in. Sorry, No. The only way you can reliably tell is to measure - and so far there are no studies showing a difference. Shure (one of the largest manufacturers on the planet - and they rely on measurements) says no. Yet you say yes and must be right? You realise how that sounds right?
   
   
2. You have two Monoprice so you can compare directly - this proves burn in
   Wrong. You have two different earphones which will have manufacturing differences plus all the things I mentioned above also apply.
   
   
3. "I found everytime I listen to IE80 after a long time retreat, it sounds pretty veiled. after a couple hours listening, it get much cleaner. I have listened to it more than 1000 hours. I don't know why, but that's what I experienced."
   What you're talking about is psycho-acoustic burn-in. Your brain is amazingly adaptive. It adjusts over time, and is constantly applying its own filter over everything we do. I've used this example a lot - and its apt seeing as how we are on the HD600 thread, and veering off-topic. I have the HD600 and also a pair of Grado/Alessandro (I've owned many - currently the MS Pro). If I listen to the HD600 without listening to anything else, it sounds beautifully tonally balanced, with excellent timbre. After an hour or so listening, I switch to the MS Pro. The Pro sounds harsh, bright, narrow sound stage, very little bass. Give it another 10-15 minutes with the MS Pro, and they start to sound exciting, with a great mid-range, excellent detail, and with bass which is punchy, and the whole experience is fast and edgy. Continue listening for another 30 minutes or so. Go back to the HD600. It sounds slow, dull, veiled, bass is quite muddy and a little bloated. Listen to it for another 10 minutes, and it returns to what you first started with.
   
   Did either headphone change (break in)? Of course not - both have had 100s of hours playing (the hD600 is 15+ years old so it will be thousands by now). What changed is my comparative perception of them. My brain simply put its filter over what I heard. Now apply that to the measured results we have, and also the anecdotal claims which are made. Which makes more sense. Break-in, or something else.

Anyway - we are veering away from the HD600 with this discussion. if you'd like to debate it, I can refer to a lot of measurements etc which I've taken and also others (like Tyll's epic trials). But lets do it in its own thread. PM me if you like and I'll set a thread up in Sound Science.

You do not need to refer me to anything. You are obstinately stick to measurement. Can measurement tell you soundstage, imaging, separation, etc.? NO!! I have NO any interest in measurement. I trust my ears. Everyone should only trust his/her ears. That famous TyII claimed Philips X2 has a much larger soundstage than HD600. I compared by myself and on my gears, HD600 has larger soundstage than X2!

You imagine a lot of facets, I agree they are relevant, and I admit I cannot rule out those facets in my experience, but you cannot deny the difference of 8320. You told me that they are different for different pair. It could be. But according to your logic, we have no any way to get an objective answer to the question of burn-in. What you honored measurement definitely cannot tell us every story of the sound.

Yes, I do not want to debate this with you. ANd I know many people here do not agree with your opinion.

 

[Brooko]

So you are allowed to make claims about burn-in which you can't prove, and I'm not allowed to provide my own opinion which is backed by objective data?

I tell you what - you stop making the claims as fact - I'll stop debating them - fair?

 

[93EXCivic]

To get back on topic, I love the HD600s. I have tried out for extended period of time a number of higher end headphones (HD800S, Ether Flow, Elear, LCD2s) and auditioned a number of others (PS1k, LCD4, LCDX, HD800, Ether) but I honestly think I prefer the HD600s to all of those except the PS1k. I am not going to say the HD600 is an endgame can for me but it plus a PS1k maybe. If nothing else, I think they are the ultimate jazz can.

I still have a number of higher end headphones I'd like to listen to (some Stax setups, HE6, K1000, GS1k and GS2k) so who knows but for me the HD600s are about perfect.