SennGrado Thread

[7keys]

 

  and don't forget driver variation. I'm certain with the senn100's there is huge variation from one set to another and likely one driver from another...hence the DIY benefit but don't lose sight of this fact like 99% of headfi who hasn't even dis-covered the fact of driver (headphone) variation from one set to another.

I have gotten 3 different PX-100ii drivers and they all sound slightly different, one is on the bright side, one is fairly neutral and one seems to have limited dynamic range.  All tested in the same housing, ear pads and wires.

There's more than a slight difference in the three pairs I have.  
 
 
I also find the closer the driver is to the ear the better SQ.

 

[thelostMIDrange]

absolutely, I don't think this is limited to the senn100. I think it's a fact of life. And sennheiser is one of the most sanitary and retentive companies out there so they may have a tighter tolerance but still......i've done this with different headphones. 3 hf3's, 7 soundmagic's, a dozen magnums drivers, several sr 60 driver sets. Each time you'd have a hard time finding any two sets that sounded the same. and in fact to my ears, the differences where enormous to the extent they sounded like different sounds altogether. The problem is few people aquire many sets of the same headphone and so they never figure this phenomenon out. The whole industry and all these forums are hugely discredited or nullified in a way because of this fact. Sure there is general sound signatures we can talk about but alot of time we are talking about fine differences and so this is more likely the result of the two phemonenon we are talking about. i.e. driver variation and indivudal ear structure difference. There's no way to resolve either. Once you realize this it makes posting about sound and hifi much less attactive and it can be seen for the almost pure waste of time that it is. But unless you are feeding those without food or housing the homeless just about everything in life is pointless. Which is why I've been doing more of the former than the latter. But life is so upside down and ridiculous we all need our share of harmless distraction and a DIY senngrad is not a bad way to go!  anything DIY in fact

 

[Noodlz]

hm. thats right i hadn't considered the possibility of driver differences. I hope i hadn't just gotten a magical driver and sold it off to my friend... lol. Well i guess we'll have to see how this next pair turns out. Sounds like some of you guys actually had better luck with the drivers being closer to your ear? I guess i'll have to try it out with a closed back design as well as an open one and see how they work out depending on the driver. tempted to buy yet another pair of px100ii's now lol

 

[DavidA]

Would you say that even higher priced headphone have as much variance from one headphone to another of the same model? I've have two HE-560 and they sound the same, I can't tell them apart with a blind test and neither can my son and girlfriend. With the PX-100ii drivers its fairly easy to tell them apart, all my friends that have listened to them can also tell the difference so I'm thinking that higher price also means better consistency between headphones.

 

[JoeDoe]

Not to be a party pooper here, but we're getting a little off track...
 
To get us back on:
 
Any of you blokes tried making an SG with PX95 drivers? I know there were some impressions a while back, but wondering if anyone else would like to chime in.
 
 
ALSO.
 
 
I've been trying out the wooden mounting rings for the PX100 drivers courtesy of 7keys to see about how they change the sound compared to the stock plastic ones. Here's what I told him:
 
Well, I've tested, listened and compared multiple times now. This may be a little disappointing, but to these ears, the sonic differences are minimal at best. There might have been a little taken off the treble in the wood housings, and a very slight boost in lower mids, but definitely nothing major. I tried multiple setups in the hopes that it would produce more conclusive results, but no such luck!

 

[thelostMIDrange]

@dave, isn't that 560 a planar? All I'm sure of is dynamic driver variation. Planars may or may not as well.......@joe, I really don't think talking about the fact of driver variation as being off track at all. Quite the contrary, the fact no one talks about it on these or other forums generally is a red flag as to how a group or hobby can be collectively off the rails on the wrong track blindspot prone etc. It's a kind of groupthink and when a lone poster comes in and suggest anything otherwise, it's obvious he's wrong or deluded because we as a group have already determined what is in the bounds of fact and fiction and well, how could driver variation be significant if no one has found this out by now? they may say......@Noodlzyes you may in fact have sold off the goldy locks pair. I sold a set of magnum4's that were just perfect and I mated them to a particular set of cups. I sold it to melvins because I really enjoyed his humourous posts and wanted him to have that set....this was before I had discovered driver variation! and I never found another magnum set that had that balance of what I needed in the driver sets, and i tried many sets. so as I 've suggested in a post long ago, If you come accross a headphone or driver set that makes your engine turn over, KEEP IT! and cherish it and care for it like a puppy.......@dave, i can't verify that pricier headphones vary but if I was a betting man, and using all my deductive logic and common sense skills built up over all these years, I 'd say 98% likely that generally yes, But it may b e a matter of degree and some companies or some designs are more prone than others...But think about it, the magnum drivers where carefully made or at least matched and you'd be hard pressed to find even a pair of drivers that sound like each other in the set, let alone find two sets that sound the same. I challenge anyone, to buy 3-5 sets of ANY dynamic driver phone and find out for themselves....I would also extend this fact to amps. I just think once you've got multiple parts in an object, it's pretty much impossible to get them all to have the same values and without tolerance variation and so when it all comes together, the end result will vary. Add this to the fact that the human ear and entire nervous system listening apparatus is so sensitive to sound and difference, it can pick up either consiously or uncosciously this fine difference much more than any dummy headset can. And unconscious listening with regards to music ( and i feel everything else bu that is off topic), is just as important if not more so when it comes to enjoying and evaluating sound and music.....so to leave with a positive spin on this, driver variation can be seen as a good thing (although frustrating) because if you like a sound signature of a particular design, buy buying multiple 'copies' of it you can have a couple or a few shades of color of that said sound signature. I have 3 turntables for example with different arms, and carts, and so I match one of the shades of my favorite headphone to each and this I couldn't do if the headphone model I use, was identical......

 

[DavidA]

@thelostMIDrange, completely agree with your comments, so I'm off to see about getting a few more PX-100ii drivers to try, like you said if you have one great pair keep them, I think I have the "one" but ......who knows.

 

[7keys]

  I really don't think talking about the fact of driver variation as being off track at all. Quite the contrary, the fact no one talks about it on these or other forums generally is a red flag as to how a group or hobby can be collectively off the rails on the wrong track ....

 
Joe has probably went through more PX100 drivers than anyone else here, I'm sure he's noticed this. 

 

[thelostMIDrange]

I'm sure. How tyll or others deep into testing have not noticed, or have not divulged this fact. maybe they never sits down with multiple pairs of the same headphone..... I would think those who build the phones may know but then again, I don't know who or what their evaluation process is. Certainly this fact is the entire basis of grados' marketing structure and how they came upon sr 60 sr 80, and their phono cartridge black, green etc. They try to build the same cart or phone, but when they realize they are not the same, they sort them out into 'models' but that's where they stop. I'm saying deeper than that within the model range, is significant to enourmous difference......so i'm sure the lowly chinese made senn100 'suffers' from variation. but shoot, what isn't made in asia according to questionable qualitiy control? And even then it may not be a quality control thing, as I guess, it's inherent in nature. no two things are the same, snoflakes etc......but poor quality control can exacerbate the issue and therefore different models or brands may vary more than others...and I'd guess different designs. Some treatments on a cone for example may introduce more chance for variation than other treatments for example..

 

[7keys]

  I'm sure. How tyll or other so called experts deep into testing have not, or have not divulged this fact is strange. maybe he never sits down with multiple pairs of the same headphone..... I would think those who build the phones may know but then again, I don't know who or what their evaluation process is. Certainly this fact is the entire basis of grados' marketing structure and how they came upon sr 60 sr 80, and their phono cartridge black, green etc. They try to build the same cart or phone, but when they realize they are not the same, they sort them out into 'models' but that's where they stop. I'm saying deeper than that within the model range, is significant to enourmous difference......so i'm sure the lowly chinese made senn100 'suffers' from variation. but shoot, what isn't made in asia according to questionable qualitiy control? And even then it may not be a quality control thing, as I guess, it's inherent in nature. no two things are the same, snoflakes etc......but poor quality control can exacerbate the issue and therefore different models or brands may vary more than others...and I'd guess different designs. Some treatments on a cone for example may introduce more chance for variation than other treatments for example..

It also could be that each production run sounds a bit different.  

 

[thelostMIDrange]

for sure, add that into the mix. I've mentioned that before regarding magnums....each batch of plastic for the drivers, metal for the coils etc...and assembly is another area of concern.

 

[fleasbaby]

Finished up a pair of cups for a build tonight. Paduaks, made specifically for SennGrados. Made the driver seat shallow, made the inner chamber match the diameter of the thicker back section of the driver.

The driver drops in neatly. I will be seating it securely with some hot glue. Headband will be from the Sony MDR7502.

 

[fleasbaby]

...and heres the finished product. Custom cable, Earzonk pads, Sony MDR7502 headband (headband idea credited to lostMIDrange...I saw him do this on a few builds a long time ago).

 

[7keys]

...and heres the finished product. Custom cable, Earzonk pads, Sony MDR7502 headband (headband idea credited to lostMIDrange...I saw him do this on a few builds a long time ago).

Nice, Do these PX100's sound the same as your other, what were they. PX95?  Do you think they are the same driver? 

 

[fleasbaby]

  Nice, Do these PX100's sound the same as your other, what were they. PX95?  Do you think they are the same driver? 

 
Nice catch...yes, the others were PX95. These sound better, I feel the PX95 is a different driver (possibly a victim of sorting per lostMIDrange's thoughts?).