[notfitforpublic]

Ok so I have a pair of AKG K7xxs and I think I want to try tubes. I currently run a JDS labs element and its nice but too neutral for my taste. I would like something a bit more fun and musical sounding. I had a Fiio e10 before and that actually sounded more fun than the element but it didnt have enough power.

So Im looking at maybe tubes....obviously Im looking at the vali 2 and the Lyr 2. Obviously the Lyr is far more expensive and has far more power than the Vali. How much of a difference will I notice between the 2? The thing is with the Lyr every time I tube swap if I choose to, and Im sure I will, I will need 2 tubes. That will get expensive quick. The power of the Lyr is really sexy but do I really need it all of the headphones Im using.

Is there anything in the SS line of Schiit I could also look at too?

I didn't much like the 7XX Vali 1 combo myself, and I think you'll find buying a tube amp and tube rolling to be more expensive than looking at new cans. The Element is a pretty solid amp from what I understand, StanD might be right, the headphones may not be the ones your looking for.
 
But, if a new amp is the route you wanna go, I'd suggest asking or snooping around the 7XX thread for amp suggestions. You'll probably find more current owners and relevant opinions there.

 

[TuRbii]

Hey all, it's been a while since I've posted. Still rocking the Modi 2, Vali 2 combo. I've had them both know paired with some HD 650s for quite a few months now and I'm enjoying them more and more each day.
I'm looking now at trying out some different tubes although I'm assuming they won't make TOO much of a difference. 
They're not too expensive so I figured why not give em a shot.

 

[Sam Lord]

 
In the case of balanced headphones cabling, there are three wires per channel, the ground connection leads still end up at the same chassis ground as a SE cabling with independent ground leads. In a balanced output the two signal leads are 180 Deg out of phase around the common ground. I see no cause for difference in SQ.
Some folks seem to think that balanced headphones cabling prevents RFI, etc. I don't buy into this as the impedances are pretty low (output) and the lengths relatively short. This is not the same scenario as a high gain Mic input.

 
Hi Stan,
 
Sorry, I had trouble re-finding this thread.  You just stated the main reason why *most* balanced circuits are vastly superior to single-ended headphone circuits.  In the balanced amps, or in single-ended power amplifiers, the crucial difference is that the ground is *not* in the audio circuit except at the source component.  The negative (or inverting) leads for each channel should never connect, but in typical cheap headphone circuits they do.  In a good amplifier, grounds exist only for shielding.  In all systems the source references ground in some way, but the secondaries of all decent amplifiers are galvanically isolated from earth ground.
 
The single important fact is that a negative return wire which is shared between two channels induces distortion from each driver to the other.  You CAN make a great single-ended headphone amplifier IF you isolate the negative wires of each channel...but that appears to be a rare design choice.

 

[StanD]

   
Hi Stan,
 
Sorry, I had trouble re-finding this thread.  You just stated the main reason why *most* balanced circuits are vastly superior to single-ended headphone circuits.  In the balanced amps, or in single-ended power amplifiers, the crucial difference is that the ground is *not* in the audio circuit except at the source component.  The negative (or inverting) leads for each channel should never connect, but in typical cheap headphone circuits they do.  In a good amplifier, grounds exist only for shielding.  In all systems the source references ground in some way, but the secondaries of all decent amplifiers are galvanically isolated from earth ground.
 
The single important fact is that a negative return wire which is shared between two channels induces distortion from each driver to the other.  You CAN make a great single-ended headphone amplifier IF you isolate the negative wires of each channel...but that appears to be a rare design choice.

I doubt that I stated that, please find my post. IMO the only thing a balanced Amp output has over SE is the potential for a 6 dBV increase in Voltage. I usually state that good SE headphones have separate ground leads, not a shared common lead.
The real advantages for balanced circuits are in high gain inputs, particularly if the impedance is high. That has little to do with headphones.
My closest previous post is at the below link,
http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/12135#post_12922279

 

[Sam Lord]

  I doubt that I stated that, please find my post. IMO the only thing a balanced Amp output has over SE is the potential for a 6 dBV increase in Voltage. I usually state that good SE headphones have separate ground leads, not a shared common lead.
The real advantages for balanced circuits are in high gain inputs, particularly if the impedance is high. That has little to do with headphones.
My closest previous post is at the below link,
http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/12135#post_12922279

 
You didn't state it explicitly, but your description of the 3 wires/ch of balanced operation were my whole point: the inverting leads do not connect with ground.  You have repeatedly said that good SE headphones have separate ground leads, to which we all agree.  But when those leads connect at the amp output, as they do with any TRS jack, I maintain that you *don't* have an ideal circuit. 
 
I understand why HP amp makers choose to connect negative leads to ground:  The impedance ratio of negative transducer terminal to ground is far greater than that for loudspeakers.  So the distortion caused by joining the negatives and ground is much less for headphones than loudspeakers.  But there is still a small current and voltage signal shared by the channels when their negative leads connect at the amp ground, causing distortion.

 

[StanD]

   
You didn't state it explicitly, but your description of the 3 wires/ch of balanced operation were my whole point: the inverting leads do not connect with ground.  You have repeatedly said that good SE headphones have separate ground leads, to which we all agree.  But when those leads connect at the amp output, as they do with any TRS jack, I maintain that you *don't* have an ideal circuit. 
 
I understand why HP amp makers choose to connect negative leads to ground:  The impedance ratio of negative transducer terminal to ground is far greater than that for loudspeakers.  So the distortion caused by joining the negatives and ground is much less for headphones than loudspeakers.  But there is still a small current and voltage signal shared by the channels when their negative leads connect at the amp ground, causing distortion.

I made no statement about balanced being better. You may have made an assumption based upon your beliefs in the TRS wiring, which I do not necessarily agree with.
When the separate ground leads go to the TRS connector they should then go directly to chassis ground. It doesn't get any better than that. You do the math and tell me what resistance difference will cause distortion, crosstalk, etc. and how much in dB. What will the difference be at chassis ground??? You will find there is nothing to be concerned with and might just mislead some readers into unnecessary worries.

 

[Sam Lord]

  I made no statement about balanced being better. You may have made an assumption based upon your beliefs in the TRS wiring, which I do not necessarily agree with.
When the separate ground leads go to the TRS connector they should then go directly to chassis ground. It doesn't get any better than that. You do the math and tell me what resistance difference will cause distortion, crosstalk, etc. and how much in dB. What will the difference be at chassis ground??? You will find there is nothing to be concerned with and might just mislead some readers into unnecessary worries.

 
I'm sorry Stan, I twisted your words.  I didn't intend to be snide, though I clearly was: I was taking part of your statement about what a balanced signal is, then expanded on it.  Agreed, you didn't say balanced was better, and you gave good reasons for your case.  So I'll just finish my opinion and leave it for you to judge.
 
Any two-channel power amplifier has two amp circuits whose original reference is earth ground.  The question we are disagreeing about is whether you gain or lose significant sound quality by tying the negative terminals to the grounded chassis.  For every loudspeaker power amp I can think of, the answer is clear: the negative leads are best not connected to chassis ground.  Why?  The chassis ground does not have a low enough impedance at audio frequencies compared to an active circuit.
 
But headphones are certainly less reactive and need much smaller currents than loudspeakers.  So the chassis does have low enough impedance to drive most headphones with vanishingly little distortion.  But a number of beastly 32 Ohm headphones that are very popular now act more like loudspeakers.  And in that case, distortion increases both from the reactance of one transducer acting on the other through the tied negative leads (even though grounded), as well as from the lower damping factor of the chassis ground.  So I was really overstating the benefit of balanced, or at least floating outputs, for the great majority of phones.  I don't see a big benefit for fully balanced circuits even for driving the beasts.
 
Once again, I apologize for my words.

 

[StanD]

   
I'm sorry Stan, I twisted your words.  I didn't intend to be snide, though I clearly was: I was taking part of your statement about what a balanced signal is, then expanded on it.  Agreed, you didn't say balanced was better, and you gave good reasons for your case.  So I'll just finish my opinion and leave it for you to judge.
 
Any two-channel power amplifier has two amp circuits whose original reference is earth ground.  The question we are disagreeing about is whether you gain or lose significant sound quality by tying the negative terminals to the grounded chassis.  For every loudspeaker power amp I can think of, the answer is clear: the negative leads are best not connected to chassis ground.  Why?  The chassis ground does not have a low enough impedance at audio frequencies compared to an active circuit.
 
But headphones are certainly less reactive and need much smaller currents than loudspeakers.  So the chassis does have low enough impedance to drive most headphones with vanishingly little distortion.  But a number of beastly 32 Ohm headphones that are very popular now act more like loudspeakers.  And in that case, distortion increases both from the reactance of one transducer acting on the other through the tied negative leads (even though grounded), as well as from the lower damping factor of the chassis ground.  So I was really overstating the benefit of balanced, or at least floating outputs, for the great majority of phones.  I don't see a big benefit for fully balanced circuits even for driving the beasts.
 
Once again, I apologize for my words.

No problem.
If one looks at power hungry headphones, they'd be Planars and they are resistive no reactance to be concerned with. I think I'm going to plug in my HE-560's into an Asgard 2 and listen for a little while, I could use some music time.

 

[ksathug]

i have a question 
 
my friend has a Valhalla 2 and he is looking for a Dac
 
 
his headphones are 
Beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium 600 OHM
AKG K702
 
 
what Dac you guys recommend  money is not the issue 
 
pleas help us decide 

 

[r2muchstuff]

  i have a question 
 
my friend has a Valhalla 2 and he is looking for a Dac
 
 
his headphones are 
Beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium 600 OHM
AKG K702
 
 
what Dac you guys recommend  money is not the issue 
 
pleas help us decide 

A Schiit Multi Bit.
 
Bifrost MB matches the form factor of the Valhalla 2, Modi MB is less $ but not upgradable, Gungnir MB adds balanced for later amp upgrades and Yggdrasil is TOL.
 
I currently run a Valhalla 2 from a Gungnir MB, I was very happy with the Bifrost MB.  I did not get the Gungnir MB just for the Valhalla I also got a Mjolnir 2.  So now I run both from it.
 
JMTC,
r2

 

[MWSVette]

  i have a question 
 
my friend has a Valhalla 2 and he is looking for a Dac
 
 
his headphones are 
Beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium 600 OHM
AKG K702
 
 
what Dac you guys recommend  money is not the issue 
 
pleas help us decide 

 
 

 
A Schiit Multi Bit.
 
Bifrost MB matches the form factor of the Valhalla 2, Modi MB is less $ but not upgradable, Gungnir MB adds balanced for later amp upgrades and Yggdrasil is TOL.
 
I currently run a Valhalla 2 from a Gungnir MB, I was very happy with the Bifrost MB.  I did not get the Gungnir MB just for the Valhalla I also got a Mjolnir 2.  So now I run both from it.
 
JMTC,
r2

 
 
+1 
 
Any of the Schiit Multibit options.
 
I wish money was not an issue for me too...

 

[Textfeud]

Guys need your expertise. I bought a Schiit Bimby again. This is my third Bifrost. Bought it second hand and it was recenlty upgraded to Multibit. I'm not sure if this is USB Gen 2 or 1. Normally my Macbook recognized the Bifrost DAC as something like Schiit USB Gen 2. Now it says Speaker-Schiit USB Audo Device? Do I have USB gen 1?

 

[sheldaze]

  Guys need your expertise. I bought a Schiit Bimby again. This is my third Bifrost. Bought it second hand and it was recenlty upgraded to Multibit. I'm not sure if this is USB Gen 2 or 1. Normally my Macbook recognized the Bifrost DAC as something like Schiit USB Gen 2. Now it says Speaker-Schiit USB Audo Device? Do I have USB gen 1?

That is correct! You have USB Gen 2.
You can also tell by launching the utility program Audio MIDI Setup to verify all the rates are available. There were some between 44.1 and 192, which were missing in USB Gen 1.

 

[Textfeud]

  That is correct! You have USB Gen 2.
You can also tell by launching the utility program Audio MIDI Setup to verify all the rates are available. There were some between 44.1 and 192, which were missing in USB Gen 1.

Thanks man . That's a relieve. Was worried since this is a upgraded Bifrost and my other Bifrost are recognized with a different name on the Macbook haha. Glad it's USB gen 2. 

 

[ksathug]

 
A Schiit Multi Bit.
 
Bifrost MB matches the form factor of the Valhalla 2, Modi MB is less $ but not upgradable, Gungnir MB adds balanced for later amp upgrades and Yggdrasil is TOL.
 
I currently run a Valhalla 2 from a Gungnir MB, I was very happy with the Bifrost MB.  I did not get the Gungnir MB just for the Valhalla I also got a Mjolnir 2.  So now I run both from it.
 
JMTC,
r2

 
 

   
 
 
 
+1 
 
Any of the Schiit Multibit options.
 
I wish money was not an issue for me too...

 
wats the different between the Multibit and the regler one ?