Schiit Mjolnir 2 Listening Impressions
Jan 24, 2018 at 3:09 PM Post #2,401 of 3,096

koover

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Where does one find those 1975 Reflektor tubes?
They’re far and few between. Just watch ebay or any other reputable seller and just keep your eyes open. I look for the 74’s I have (really good and right below the 75’s In quality) all the time and I rarely see them up for sale/bid.
I’d like someone’s take on both years who own both. Looks like everyone just hangs on to them. Maybe someone on this site wants to sell them? You never know.
Post in the classifieds WTB in the cables, Speakers , accessories thread for this particular tube and see if anyone bites.
Good luck in your search.
 
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Jan 24, 2018 at 6:33 PM Post #2,402 of 3,096

rnros

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Nice review. Even though I run with a LYR2, they both use the same tubes. Question:
I own the 1974 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields. Have you heard these before and if so, how much better are the 75’s?

IMHO, Not really 'better' just a little different. Original review, and some subsequent reviews, describe a less analytical and more euphonic SQ with the '75. I have had lots of time with the '75 (2 pair) and the '74 (6 pair). I slightly, but clearly, preferred the '74 for detail, clarity, and soundstage. However, that is my own preference, no tube acrobatics, just a clean, even handed FR. (Both the '74 and '75, like all the RFL 6N23P, do have an emphasis in the upper bass/lower mids.)

The varied responses to these two tubes has to include the differences in audio chains and individual ear/experience/expectation, but I think it also involves tube variation. My experience with the RFL 6N23Ps is that there is a large percentage of noisy/microphonic tubes, at least 30%, and even very small levels of N/M can alter the SQ performance.

Anyway, in early 2016, I shared a similar curiosity and intent to hear the best available, so I went through a LOT of RFL 6N23Ps to find out for myself just what were the characteristics of this tube. How extensive the effort? Well, at least 200 tubes total from '67 to '74. Single post getters, by my searches, were not available until '74. Did this make a difference in the SQ? No. Same with the silver vs gray shield, no difference in SQ. And of course, if you do a similar search and comparison, YMMV.

Bottomline: IMHO and experience, the earlier year (esp. '70 to '73) RFL 6N23Ps share the same SQ with the SWGP/SS '74 and '75.
So, if you have heard the RFL 6N23P, you already have a sense of the SQ, if not, you can search for a really good pair from the earlier years first, without spending too much.
But I know, you don't really know, until you have had the experience. So you might just have to prove it to yourself. : )
At this point in time, if I do reach for a 6N23P, it will be one of these earlier years. I have, occasionally, gone back for a listen to the '74/'75 SWGP/SS, no change in opinion.

First commented on this here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-620#post_12569085
You can search my posts for subsequent comments on this topic.

Also, that was the first time I had commented on the RFL 6N3P-E. Actually did not mention it by name, but followed that with this post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-621#post_12570846
Attention then went to the RFL 6N3P-E. (IMO slightly better top/bottom extension, no upper bass boom/bloom.)
Both excellent tubes, depends on gear and E/E/E.

Edit: I do have a strong opinion and recommendation, and that would be to acquire the best DAC you can before spending any similar amount of money on tubes!
 
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Jan 24, 2018 at 7:02 PM Post #2,403 of 3,096

goldsgym

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Jan 24, 2018 at 7:26 PM Post #2,404 of 3,096

ruthieandjohn

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Thanks for that piece of advice! However, I canceled my order for the MJ2 and decided to go with the Violectric V280. I am going to return the iFi tubes to Amazon
The Violectric V280 is single ended, not balanced, right? It is balanced operation that distinguishes the V281from the V280, am I right?

Thanks!
 
Jan 24, 2018 at 7:41 PM Post #2,405 of 3,096

koover

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IMHO, Not really 'better' just a little different. Original review, and some subsequent reviews, describe a less analytical and more euphonic SQ with the '75. I have had lots of time with the '75 (2 pair) and the '74 (6 pair). I slightly, but clearly, preferred the '74 for detail, clarity, and soundstage. However, that is my own preference, no tube acrobatics, just a clean, even handed FR. (Both the '74 and '75, like all the RFL 6N23P, do have an emphasis in the upper bass/lower mids.)

The varied responses to these two tubes has to include the differences in audio chains and individual ear/experience/expectation, but I think it also involves tube variation. My experience with the RFL 6N23Ps is that there is a large percentage of noisy/microphonic tubes, at least 30%, and even very small levels of N/M can alter the SQ performance.

Anyway, in early 2016, I shared a similar curiosity and intent to hear the best available, so I went through a LOT of RFL 6N23Ps to find out for myself just what were the characteristics of this tube. How extensive the effort? Well, at least 200 tubes total from '67 to '74. Single post getters, by my searches, were not available until '74. Did this make a difference in the SQ? No. Same with the silver vs gray shield, no difference in SQ. And of course, if you do a similar search and comparison, YMMV.

Bottomline: IMHO and experience, the earlier year (esp. '70 to '73) RFL 6N23Ps share the same SQ with the SWGP/SS '74 and '75.
So, if you have heard the RFL 6N23P, you already have a sense of the SQ, if not, you can search for a really good pair from the earlier years first, without spending too much.
But I know, you don't really know, until you have had the experience. So you might just have to prove it to yourself. : )
At this point in time, if I do reach for a 6N23P, it will be one of these earlier years. I have, occasionally, gone back for a listen to the '74/'75 SWGP/SS, no change in opinion.

First commented on this here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-620#post_12569085
You can search my posts for subsequent comments on this topic.

Also, that was the first time I had commented on the RFL 6N3P-E. Actually did not mention it by name, but followed that with this post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-621#post_12570846
Attention then went to the RFL 6N3P-E. (IMO slightly better top/bottom extension, no upper bass boom/bloom.)
Both excellent tubes, depends on gear and E/E/E.

Edit: I do have a strong opinion and recommendation, and that would be to acquire the best DAC you can before spending any similar amount of money on tubes!
Appreciate the time and effort you put into this.
My next upgrade will be a DAC, it's just I don't know when that will be. I'm quite pleased with my Mimby so that really leaves me with the Gumby if I want to stay Schittie. I just don't ever see me putting down the cash on a Yggdrasil.
 
Jan 24, 2018 at 9:30 PM Post #2,407 of 3,096

rnros

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Appreciate the time and effort you put into this.
My next upgrade will be a DAC, it's just I don't know when that will be. I'm quite pleased with my Mimby so that really leaves me with the Gumby if I want to stay Schittie. I just don't ever see me putting down the cash on a Yggdrasil.

After some of the top 2C51/6N3P, I found a couple of the '40s octals with 300mA heaters to be an exciting step up.
Ken Rad and Tung Sol 6C8Gs at about $40 to $60 a pair. Adapters and socket savers required.
Top performance, very modest cost.
 
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Jan 24, 2018 at 9:48 PM Post #2,408 of 3,096

Phantaminum

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After some of the top 2C51/6N3P, I found a couple of the '40s octals with 300mA heaters to be an exciting step up.
Ken Rad and Tung Sol 6C8Gs at about $40 to $60 a pair. Adapters and socket savers required.
Top performance, very modest cost.

Please do share the adapters needed for 6C8G to E88CC. Love to try out the Ken Rads!
 
Jan 24, 2018 at 10:32 PM Post #2,409 of 3,096

rnros

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Please do share the adapters needed for 6C8G to E88CC. Love to try out the Ken Rads!

Adapter:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-6F8G-6...11-tube-adapter-CNC-Copper-body/191554107223?
You will have to use socket savers so the adapter and tube can sit above the chassis. Two for each tube socket.

This '40s Ken Rad JAN 6C8G VT-163 in the original military box is the one I have and recommend. May be other sellers also.
Internal construction did change a bit in the following years, so I don't know about those.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-TV...-Plate-Dual-Triode-VT-163-Tubes/202175625462?

The Ken Rads need about 60hrs to hit full SQ, especially the top end.

Edit: Oops. Wrong adapter, corrected.
 
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Jan 26, 2018 at 11:58 AM Post #2,410 of 3,096

ljperez84

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Well I can't just believe that on a single month I pulled the trigger on my HD800S, MJ2 and some WE396A tubes (with adapters of course). My wallet will be sad, my ears will be happy. :beyersmile:

At first I tought that by upgrading to the HD800S I was going to sell my beloved HD650s, but after seeing how unforgiving the HD800Ss are with bad recordings I decided I'll keep the HD650s.

Sorry if this have been asked many times before, but, is there a huge difference in using the HD650s balanced?

I'm not really a cable believer. Noob question: I can just re-terminate one regular cable, right? If so, would you be so kind to point me out to a link of which connector should I buy and a noob guide on how to install it?
 
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Jan 26, 2018 at 12:15 PM Post #2,411 of 3,096

bzzzt

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Well I can't just believe that on a single month I pulled the trigger on my HD800S, MJ2 and some WE396A tubes (with adapters of course). My wallet will be sad, my ears will be happy. :beyersmile:

At first I tought that by upgrading to the HD800S I was going to sell my beloved HD650s, but after seeing how unforgiving the HD800Ss are with bad recordings I decided I'll keep the HD650s.

Sorry if this have been asked many times before, but, is there a huge difference in using the HD650s balanced?

I'm not really a cable believer. Noob question: I can just re-terminate one regular cable, right? If so, would you be so kind to point me out to a link of which connector should I buy and a noob guide on how to install it?

With most amps (Mjo2 included), balanced will give you more power, however not necessarily noticeably better sound. Consensus on the Mjo2 seems to be that the balanced out sounds better, because the summing stage before the SE output reduces some of the advantage of the circlotron circuit in the amp. I personally think the balanced sounds better enough that it was worth purchasing balanced cables for my headphones.

Maybe since you just invested a lot in upgrades, you should wait and keep your eyes open for a great deal on a cable. Will give you time to get used to the sound of the single ended output with the HD650, so that when you try the balanced you will be better able to compare.
 
Jan 26, 2018 at 1:08 PM Post #2,412 of 3,096

bzzzt

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After some of the top 2C51/6N3P, I found a couple of the '40s octals with 300mA heaters to be an exciting step up.
Ken Rad and Tung Sol 6C8Gs at about $40 to $60 a pair. Adapters and socket savers required.
Top performance, very modest cost.

Looks cool and would like to try.

Question for you though, how did you know these tubes would be compatible and not cause any damage? Was it based on specifications? Also, do have any info about bias adjustment in the Mjo2?

I only ask because I have not seen any official way to know what tubes may work in the Mjo2, other than Schiit’s provided compatibility list.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
Jan 26, 2018 at 1:10 PM Post #2,413 of 3,096

gc335

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Has anyone compared the Mj2 versus the Audio-gd NFB-28? I know that is super specific but I'm hoping someone here has some experience with it.
 
Jan 26, 2018 at 1:14 PM Post #2,414 of 3,096

ljperez84

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Good advise, thanks! I'll tell my wife to hide my credit cards from my self. :beyersmile:
 
Jan 26, 2018 at 1:38 PM Post #2,415 of 3,096

rnros

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Looks cool and would like to try.

Question for you though, how did you know these tubes would be compatible and not cause any damage? Was it based on specifications? Also, do have any info about bias adjustment in the Mjo2?

I only ask because I have not seen any official way to know what tubes may work in the Mjo2, other than Schiit’s provided compatibility list.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Yes, you can check spec sheet for heater filament current requirement. 300 mA is required by both 6DJ8 group and 6C8G. Bias is obviously set for 6DJ8 group, so probably not taking full advantage of the octals' capabilities. Have used octals, with appropriate heater requirement, for all the Schiit hybrid amps.
Many others have also, you can check some of the other Schiit amp threads.
 

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