And therein lies the problem: proof. If this were to go to court, who can offer expert testimony? Not like there's a licensing board or certification for this type thing. Most of the people that were actually involved in the manufacturing of the really good NOS stuff are either dead or unreachable, so who would a court of law depend on to state absolutes? All BangyBang would have to do is say "Sorry, I didn't know. I thought they were the real thing." I would imagine (although this is only conjecture on my part) that if someone buys something from BangyBang and after receiving it alerts them it's a fake or counterfeit, BangyBang just refunds their money and that's the end of it. There are a LOT of ignorant purchasers out there that likely don't know the difference anyway and just take BangyBang at his word. I think between this thread and the Lyr 3 Tube Rollers thread there's been enough evidence pictured that at least some (if not all) of what he is selling is NOT the genuine article. But proving it beyond any reasonable doubt is a totally different thing. In the end it's up to you. I wouldn't purchase a tube from BangyBang, Menifee, or any of his other apostrophe-laden alternates if they were the only tube sellers left on the planet. But that's just me, and what I do is certainly not a guidepost for anyone else.
Thanks to those who have responded to my post 22336.
Apologises for taking this thread slightly of topic !
Clearly there seems to be no 'evidence' which would stand the test of scrutiny in a Court of Law ! However,If the 'suggestions' are true then I would have thought Ebay would take the necessary action.! I say that thinking they should but knowing Ebay I'm not so sure !!??
Reference has been made of certain examples where the suggestion is that the tubes in question were never produced in that manner. Interestingly, I have recently researched two types of tubes (ECC83/12AX7 and 12BH7 which my new Pre/Power Amps use.) and have found variants that have not been previously advertised !!
For instance,it was recommended that the old Tesla ECC83 be a good alternative in my Amps! I bought some from an old established Dealer in the UK who informed me he had bought them from the old Tesla factory !! I have not seen this tube with it's particular construction,mentioned anywhere ! Similar ones, yes, but not the same!!
So, it is indeed a problem for the 'average' buyer to purchase with confidence from any seller, particularly on Ebay !
However, what does surprise me, is that nobody appears to be taking this on and trying to establish the facts! This 'issue' has also been mentioned on 'Tubes Asylum' .
On 'TA' there is evidence that OGR and Bangybangtubes are one of the same. I did read somewhere that the name behind this person/company was Koterba. I recently bought some tubes from Menifee_Audio . After I read the comments on this thread and TA, I cancelled them. M_A actually refunded my money. The name on the paypal refund was Zedakiah Koterba !! Is this coincidence?? If we can establish a link between OGR/bangybangtubes and Menifee, then Ebay may take the appropiate action ??
Obviously Head-fi has a restricted audience. I live in the UK. Does anybody have any knowledge of any Association (in the US) that may be more interested at pursuing and collating evidence against person/company?
If this doesn't go any further, then I'm inclined to do what others have done!!
