[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roam /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which is completely irrelevant as the Coriolan Then there's the big fat lie, claiming a greater than 120dB signal to noise ratio with 65dB of gain. This is also flat out impossible due to Johnson noise unless the amplifier is sitting in a tub of liquid helium.

I'd put this kind of amp on my nightstand and let my best girl pick her own music and choose between my HE90 and Omega II. I'd be happy to listen to whatever pair she regards as second best. My Johnson noise wouldn't bother either one of us too much in such a listening session.

 

[luvdunhill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif No you can't;

what, you're a violinist too now? I didn't say one thing about gear, cables, etc. ...

 

[morphsci]

I do not want to take sides here for several reasons. First, I am very happy with my ES-1 and have no interest in purchasing the Coriolan. Second, not enough information has been presented for me to make an informed, scientific decision.

To make a scientific decision, I need to see the analysis of the data. Unfortunately, all that has been presented, by either side, are conjecture and assertions. I cannot scientifically judge either one of those. I would like to ask those that think the Coriolan is a flawed design due to impossible specifications (or those that think it is the second coming) to do something for the rest of us. I would like to see a post that explicitly states what specifications are suspect and then provide the mathematical analysis, along with explicit satements of what assumptions were used, of the data.

In my rudimentary research it appears there is more than one model that may be applied to these data, so I would like to see a little more scientific rigor since the assertion is that we are going to use science to draw our conclusions.

This is not meant as an insult to anyone, but merely as a genuine question. Thanks.

 

[luvdunhill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would like to ask those that think the Coriolan is a flawed design due to impossible specifications (or those that think it is the second coming) to do something for the rest of us. I would like to see a post that explicitly states what specifications are suspect and then provide the mathematical analysis, along with explicit satements of what assumptions were used, of the data.

Actually, I think you should go one step further. Have the side that thinks "the Coriolan is a flawed design due to impossible specifications" do the analysis *as well as* other side that thinks it's totally possible for the spec to be correct to do the same analysis and post the results. If this second party is tourmaline or Dr. Rudi Stor, PhD is really of immaterial consequence to me.

 

[morphsci]

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdunhill /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, I think you should go one step further. Have the side that thinks "the Coriolan is a flawed design due to impossible specifications" do the analysis *as well as* other side that thinks it's totally possible for the spec to be correct to do the same analysis and post the results. If this second party is tourmaline or Dr. Rudi Stor, PhD is really of immaterial consequence to me.

That is exactly what i would like to see happen. Then, perhaps, we can have a useful discussion that we can all learn from. I am looking forward to it myself as I do not have a problem with the mathematics itself but I do not have a deep enough knowledge of physics to appreciate all of the implications of the assumptions.

 

[luvdunhill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is exactly what i would like to see happen. Then, perhaps, we can have a useful discussion that we can all learn from. I am looking forward to it myself as I do not have a problem with the mathematics itself but I do not have a deep enough knowledge of physics to appreciate all of the implications of the assumptions.

 

[tyrion]

The personal attacks and in particular the name calling will stop. If it doesn't, the people that do it will get vacations and the thread will be locked.

 

[cosmopragma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif I told you allready in the bada thread that i am NOT a designer, let alone a professional one. I am still learnign step by step, rome wasn't build in one day and you certainly didn't get your "knowledge"instandly! That was one of the reasons why i had the bada modded professionally, remember?! The ones who are, had a good laugh at your expense. So that is what they think about your expertise. So this post was quite useless to you. Are you really that thick, ROAM and too full of yourself that you need small things like this to make you feel good?! Also i am not the one judging an amp that i didn't hear or that i didn't see with my own eyes from the inside. If i were a decent man, i would contact Rudi by phone, PM him or anything else then posting slander without any real knowledge about the amp in this thread. This is the only correct way to gain inside knowledge and to ask the man in person about his designer philosophies. Some might call it slander; i know one thing that a good lawer would eat you for breakfast! Ignorant idiot. Funny that a man who "thinks " that he is a designer doesn't have a look inside but instead just practise voodoo. In the end, you're just an old whining woman spreading gossip and slander. very "professional" attitude for a smart man as you claim to be. To me, you're still a big laugh and your posts read like a big ego trip.

May I summarize your post for those with ADHD:
I've seen threads being closed or deleted for less than that, and although it's always fun to see a man shooting into his own leg such a tantrum generally doesn't convey anything but the state of mind.

Quote:

If i were a decent man, i would contact Rudi by phone, PM him or anything else then posting slander without any real knowledge about the amp in this thread. This is the only correct way to gain inside knowledge and to ask the man in person about his designer philosophies.

Unfortunately Rudi doesn't like to disclose specific information about his amps.For whatever reason.

 

[Michgelsen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif rudimentary research

Pun intended?

 

[morphsci]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michgelsen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pun intended?

I wish I was really that clever

 

[Roam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdunhill /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, I think you should go one step further. Have the side that thinks "the Coriolan is a flawed design due to impossible specifications" do the analysis *as well as* other side that thinks it's totally possible for the spec to be correct to do the same analysis and post the results. If this second party is tourmaline or Dr. Rudi Stor, PhD is really of immaterial consequence to me.

A quick example. The Coriolan claims to give 65dB of gain using nothing but triodes in the signal path, the triode tubes in question being 12AX7s and EL34s. The best case voltage gain from a 12AX7 is 100 (see any tube database), and a triode-wired EL34 is 10.5 (from Mullard datasheet), giving a gain of 1050 for the system. Voltage gain in dB is defined as 20log(Vout/Vin), where Vout/Vin is the voltage gain. In an ideal case, this works out to 60.4dB, which is 4.6dB lower than the claimed figure. These are ideal parts in an ideal circuit, and they still don't meet specs.

A real world circuit will have even lower gain due to internal degeneration on the tubes, negative feedback to achieve the claimed frequency response & distortion specs, and other losses due to non-ideal parts. Real world gain will be in the 50-57dB range, far short of claimed specs. Thus a transistor gain stage is required to meet the specs for gain, which is a direct contradiction of the use of triode topologies assure the right, coherent, and natural harmonic distortion pattern, that assisted by some solid state components (in order to control some auxiliary functions) as stated by the manufacturer, unless as I mentioned earlier, "auxiliary functions" includes being in the direct signal path and amplifying the signal.

 

[Icarium]

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdunhill /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, this isn't really a DIY thing, it's an informed consumer thing. For example, I can tell by looking at a violin what style it is built in and this will give me a good idea of what it will sound like before I play it. Can I build a violin? no certainly not. Do I know what goes into building one, what trade-offs are made? ya, somewhat, but not at luthier level, just from what experiences I have gained in the past and bring to the issue at hand in the present. Why waste my time playing 1,000s of instruments when I can "judge a book by its cover" and narrow it down to 1% of those? Is it possible I'll miss a diamond in the rough in this down-select process? Possibly, but as you gain more experience this is less likely. Still, it's a chance you take... this is because this allows you more time and energy with the instruments that have the highest probability of matching your particular goals.

Yup agree as well. That's exactly the case... "A diamond in the rough." How many of those do people find? That's pretty much also been my experience relating to things that can transcend their design/build flaws and still sound their price tag.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yup agree as well. That's exactly the case... "A diamond in the rough." How many of those do people find? That's pretty much also been my experience relating to things that can transcend their design/build flaws and still sound their price tag.

so do you think if an amp is designed "poorly" (at least by some standards), it cannot sound good?

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roam /img/forum/go_quote.gif Spritzer and myself are looking at the overall technical merits of the amp, and whether the claimed performance & specifications are plausible. Neither of us has made any guesses as to the sound of the amp, at this point, speaking for myself, I'm more interested in what makes it tick than what it may sound like.

i don't think that is true - that you are merely interested in what makes the amp tick. by ridiculing the design you cannot be implying anything other than that the amp will sound bad. you obviously are not trying to imply that the amp is poorly designed yet may sound good.

i have read many of your comments, not only here but elsewhere, and although i do not question your ability to read schematics and the like, there appears to be a total disconnect between your many comments bashing particular amps and almost everyones' experience using those same amps. i sincerely doubt that everyone who listens to and enjoys one of the many amps that you dismiss as garbarge has poor hearing, is so uncouth as to be unable to figure out what a good amp sounds like, or - as you most likely would try to have us believe - is just plain stupid.

 

[luvdunhill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrion /img/forum/go_quote.gif The personal attacks and in particular the name calling will stop. If it doesn't, the people that do it will get vacations and the thread will be locked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif i don't think that is true - that you are merely interested in what makes the amp tick. by ridiculing the design you cannot be implying anything other than that the amp will sound bad. you obviously are not trying to imply that the amp is poorly designed yet may sound good. i have read many of your comments, not only here but elsewhere, and although i do not question your ability to read schematics and the like, there appears to be a total disconnect between your many comments bashing particular amps and almost everyones' experience using those same amps. i sincerely doubt that everyone who listens to and enjoys one of the many amps that you dismiss as garbarge has poor hearing, is so uncouth as to be unable to figure out what a good amp sounds like, or - as you most likely would try to have us believe - is just plain stupid.

vcoheda:

Please don't cause this thread to get locked. I'm waiting for the other side of the argument here to step forwards. Perhaps start another thread?