[vcoheda]

it's not a personal attack, but an observation.

 

[markl]

It would be interesting and instructive if the people who are complaining about the design they imagine in their minds this amp must have, could provide some double-blind studies showing that the levels of distortion (Johnson, Smith, Brown or otherwise) they imagine this amp might put out are actually audible to the human ear.

Are they?


(Oh, and no padding your imaginary figures to drive them up to known audible levels.

)

 

[luvdunhill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif It would be interesting and instructive if the people who are complaining about the design they imagine in their minds this amp must have, could provide some double-blind studies showing that the levels of distortion (Johnson, Smith, Brown or otherwise) they imagine this amp might put out are actually audible to the human ear. Are they? (Oh, and no padding your imaginary figures to drive them up to known audible levels. )

Again, this really isn't the point of many people in this thread. The specs are bull.

Let's try another line of reasoning. What if you ordered one of this itsy-bitsy Tomahawks and when it finally arrived it was twice the size as published on Ray's website. Then, you posted here and said, "what's up, the physical measurements are totally wrong!" and I replied, "who cares man? how does it sound?!"

 

[Icarium]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif so do you think if an amp is designed "poorly" (at least by some standards), it cannot sound good?

I'm not saying it is impossible. But I think it would be the edge case and not the norm. You think it's the norm? Or even a ~50 percent case?

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdunhill /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let's try another line of reasoning. What if you ordered one of this itsy-bitsy Tomahawks and when it finally arrived it was twice the size as published on Ray's website. Then, you posted here and said, "what's up, the physical measurements are totally wrong!" and I replied, "who cares man? how does it sound?!"

that's different. in that example, it would be a non sequitur to ask how does it sound, b/c there is no intended relationship between discussion about the size of the amp and its sound. but here, the situation is very different. in this discussion about specs/design there clearly is an intended relationship between the two - design and sound - and an unstated yet obvious conclusion; namely, that the amp is of poor/dishonest design and therefore must sound bad as well.

 

[markl]

Quote:

Again, this really isn't the point of many people in this thread. The specs are bull.

Nonsense. We have several people criticizing the alleged/imagined design of this amp. I want to know if the alleged distortion this supposed "piece of crap" must be pumping out is audible or not. Is it? If so, provide some double blind tests that show where this is so.

If it's not even audible (even at maximum inflated imaginary levels), this whole stupid thread is completely academic.

No one can argue it performs poorly or would perform better if only he had done X, Y, and Z instead of A, B and C with the design. If the proposed "improvements" to the circuit design would not even be audible, than I fail to see what the fuss is really about.

 

[Icarium]

I think what they mostly are concerned with is that the listed specs/performance values on the website are real/achievable. Is that a bad thing?

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not saying it is impossible [that a poorly designed amp can sound good]. But I think it would be the edge case and not the norm.

if we are to believe Roam and others that rudi amps are poorly designed, then where does that leave you. i mean what about the rudistor amp you owned and praised so highly. was that an "edge case" or do you no longer believe what you heard or wrote about it being the "best amp under 5 digits."

or was that just sales talk?

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif It would be interesting and instructive if the people who are complaining about the design they imagine in their minds this amp must have, could provide some double-blind studies showing that the levels of distortion (Johnson, Smith, Brown or otherwise) they imagine this amp might put out are actually audible to the human ear. Are they? (Oh, and no padding your imaginary figures to drive them up to known audible levels. )

If they don't matter then why is he flat out fabricating them? This isn't the first amp he's done so with so there must be a reason? Like Roam said the maximum gain posted by Rudi can only be this high if he put in some SS or transformer gain stage flat out lying to his high paying customers by saying the the signal path was all triode (the EL34 is a pentode but triode connected). This isn't about how the amp will sound, as if you change the coupling caps the sound will be completely different, but why a manufacturer has to lie time and time again when selling a 9500€ headphone amp. We are made to look like bad guys by questioning this and the design of the amp.

 

[markl]

LOL, now that youse guys have been nailed, you're back-pedaling and trying to pretend you were arguing something else.

OK, I'm outta here, case closed.

 

[Icarium]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif if we are to believe Roam and others that rudi amps are poorly designed, then where does that leave you. i mean what about the rudistor amp you owned and praised so highly. was that an "edge case" or do you no longer believe what you heard or wrote about it being the "best amp under 5 digits." or was that just sales talk?

Ah I was wondering when someone would bring that out. When I posted that information I suffered from what many people suffer... thinking that what you own/or have heard is the best even though you haven't heard much at all. When I had made those statements pretty much the only 4 digit amps I'd heard were the GS-X precursor and the Apache. The GS-X precursor I thought was pretty much relatively on par and the Apache I was completely unimpressed with. So based on that I thought the Rudistor amp was the bees knees. Since then I've heard singlepower offerings/beta22s and other amps that are so much better sounding and better valued that I can no longer hold the same position I had before. I now believe that the best 4 digit values you can have are the beta22/dynamight/dynafet and things by eddie current.

Plus then I heard issues involving build quality/design issues.. which I still took with a grain of salt as overall my experience was still positive.

However.. when the amp was opened up inside was messily soldered and one of the transformers was loose and moving around and one of the boards was not even screwed in one corner but instead held down ineffectively with some sort of silicon based glue... well that was enough confirmation of the build quality issues for me.

 

[leonid05]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif that's different. in that example, it would be a non sequitur to ask how does it sound, b/c there would be no intended relationship between discussion about the size of the amp and its sound. but here, the situation is very different. in the discussion about specs/design there clearly is an intended relationship between the two - design and sound - and an unstated yet obvious conclusion - namely, that the amp is of poor/dishonest design and therefore must sound bad as well.

Absolutely correct and thus disgusting.

Plus, there seem to be some backpaddling here.
First it started with a loudmouthed "just another overpriced and poorly built Rudistor amp", now it are some specs on a website that are critizised.

In the end it`s all a question of what every single one of us finds to be plausible.
Is it plausile to assume that Dr.Stor is an idiot? Or a criminal?
Or somebody made a mistake while writing the specs on that site (assumed they`re actually wrong at all)?

Or would it be worthwhile to simply ask him directly the questions that for some here caused some irritations?

Well, the latter might be a matter of course, but doesn`t publicly serve an overinflated ego, now does it?

*shrug*

 

[Icarium]

You guys are lumping several camps of Rudistor detractors into one group. Which isn't fair to people arguing purely on technical merits.

Moreover I'm pretty sure it isn't Roam who brought how the amp sounds into the picture. A quick check into his earlier posts to this thread confirms that. It was the people who were like "Why are you posting negatively about an amp before you've heard it?"

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah I was wondering when someone would bring that out. ...

fair enough.

 

[Asr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif that's different. in that example, it would be a non sequitur to ask how does it sound, b/c there is no intended relationship between discussion about the size of the amp and its sound. but here, the situation is very different. in this discussion about specs/design there clearly is an intended relationship between the two - design and sound - and an unstated yet obvious conclusion; namely, that the amp is of poor/dishonest design and therefore must sound bad as well.

Design and implementation goes hand in hand with sound quality. Poor design or implementation or both won't necessarily mean something will sound "bad" per se, but the sound won't be at its full potential. There are plenty of ways to cut corners when it comes to an electronic circuit - granted, not every corner that could be cut is going to negatively affect sound quality, but if someone cuts enough of them, especially the important ones, then that can ultimately bring down what might otherwise sound a lot better. It would be great if sound quality could be mystically engineered through software but that's a pipe dream only, the sound quality achievable through electronics is limited to what's on a board and what can be put on there. Amps can certainly be judged on their sound alone but that would be missing half the picture - sound is engineered at the electronics level, it's not like the amps derive their sound from something else. If something is poorly designed, how can you seriously expect it to sound great?