[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nauxolo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you know what the HDAM on Lawrence's upgraded Zero is? He has one on ebay: Zero DAC with the HDAM, LT1364, and upgraded volume pot - eBay (item 330284748748 end time Nov-14-08 15:25:01 PST)

He just sent me an email on mine being shipped. I'll let you know the particulars when I get it. We'll see if he has upgraded.

 

[leothan]

hi all,
I just received my Zero and am getting some noise issues (everything's stock). There is a buzzing sound on both channels from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock on the volume dial. I tried moving it around the house and the noise 's still remain ,so it 's not the interference from my pc . What might be causing this, how do I diagnose it? Oddly the noise gets SOFTER if I crank the knob all the way to the right. It is loudest at 12 o'clock
Thank

 

[linuxworks]

is the buzz only when you TOUCH the knob to move it?

I would suspect you are not getting a good ground, or you have leaky cables (not well shielded). are your cables long at all?

have you tried grounding the zero chassis with thick braid (or similar) from the zero chassis to your source?

also, does it matter if its opto or coax input to get the buzz, for you?

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi, Let me re-phrase my SoundCard question. Insert the manufacturer of your choice. Let's say you have a Company that makes better than OEM soundcards. Pretty good soundcards in fact. If you are just looking at the SPDIF outputs of the SC's, are there significant differences in the quality of the sound coming out as digital??

in theory, jitter (timing diffs from one sample to another) can vary from one digital source (sc) to another. this is the only area where you'd get 'errors' and errors that are catastrophic on spdif are very very rare.

for most of us (myself included) digital either works or it does not. I don't think I've ever hear the effects of jitter and I've used literally dozens of spdif sources and dacs. but some 'golden ears' claim to hear it and so you'll have to decide if this is real, significant (that's key) or imaginary at the level you listen at.

most people don't hear these jitter errors. again, you'll have to decide how nuts you want to go just to have 'low specs on paper' so you can feel good at night

but for most of us, honestly, digital transports = digital transports. bits = bits. for most of us. ymmv, though!

 

[ScottieB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif in theory, jitter (timing diffs from one sample to another) can vary from one digital source (sc) to another. this is the only area where you'd get 'errors' and errors that are catastrophic on spdif are very very rare. for most of us (myself included) digital either works or it does not. I don't think I've ever hear the effects of jitter and I've used literally dozens of spdif sources and dacs. but some 'golden ears' claim to hear it and so you'll have to decide if this is real, significant (that's key) or imaginary at the level you listen at. most people don't hear these jitter errors. again, you'll have to decide how nuts you want to go just to have 'low specs on paper' so you can feel good at night but for most of us, honestly, digital transports = digital transports. bits = bits. for most of us. ymmv, though!

Gotta disagree with this - at least on a practical level - my ears do not lie. My onboard sound card, even though SPDIF out has a lot of noise and crackling. I was not able to find out why exactly, could be jitter I suppose, could be drivers, could be interference - who knows. What I do know is that coming from my X-fi I have no such issues through Coax OR Optical. I've heard others with the same issues (and not just on head-fi -- these issues were what put me over the top for getting a discrete audio card - well that and the break-out box).

So, theoretically, digital is digital, bits are bits etc etc - but build quality and programming are not all equal... I'd say the best course of action is to try it with your built-in card. If it sounds good, then you're good to go. If you have issues that you can't seem to solve, it's a good chance a better audio card would help.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif in theory, jitter (timing diffs from one sample to another) can vary from one digital source (sc) to another. this is the only area where you'd get 'errors' and errors that are catastrophic on spdif are very very rare. for most of us (myself included) digital either works or it does not. I don't think I've ever hear the effects of jitter and I've used literally dozens of spdif sources and dacs. but some 'golden ears' claim to hear it and so you'll have to decide if this is real, significant (that's key) or imaginary at the level you listen at. most people don't hear these jitter errors. again, you'll have to decide how nuts you want to go just to have 'low specs on paper' so you can feel good at night but for most of us, honestly, digital transports = digital transports. bits = bits. for most of us. ymmv, though!

Hi,
That's what I thought. A better SC would be a huge waste here. Thanx!

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottieB /img/forum/go_quote.gif Gotta disagree with this - at least on a practical level - my ears do not lie. My onboard sound card, even though SPDIF out has a lot of noise and crackling. I was not able to find out why exactly, could be jitter I suppose, could be drivers, could be interference - who knows. What I do know is that coming from my X-fi I have no such issues through Coax OR Optical. I've heard others with the same issues (and not just on head-fi -- these issues were what put me over the top for getting a discrete audio card - well that and the break-out box). So, theoretically, digital is digital, bits are bits etc etc - but build quality and programming are not all equal... I'd say the best course of action is to try it with your built-in card. If it sounds good, then you're good to go. If you have issues that you can't seem to solve, it's a good chance a better audio card would help.

I think you didn't understand my question. In your scenario, you have crap seaping into your onboard that has nothing really to do with anything other than maybe isolation. The MB I have now is the first board I ever attempted to use Onboard sound when I built it. Driver issues w/ Vista 64 and the same issues you had made me get the card I have now.

What my question was, if you have two cards with no issues(no snapping, crackling, popping), is there any reason to buy the Uber Premum card $$$$ if you are bypassing the DAC and OpAmps on the SC anyhow?

 

[Penchum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif What my question was, if you have two cards with no issues(no snapping, crackling, popping), is there any reason to buy the Uber Premum card $$$$ if you are bypassing the DAC and OpAmps on the SC anyhow?

Hey LG,

Lots of opinions on this topic, but little fact I'm afraid. If both were noise free, and the other parameters were equal, there is a good chance you would not detect the difference between the two, when using an outboard DAC. This would normally be a correct and commonly observed truthful answer.

However, I have personally heard a difference in transports between on-board chip solution audio in digital mode, and dedicated sound card audio in digital mode. An example is my notebook. It's an ASUS with HD-Audio built-in, with optical digital output. The output is OK and by no means "lacking" in some serious and highly noticeable way. But, compared to the X-Fi Express slot card I bought, it is indeed lacking. The X-Fi, with all the goodies turned off and bit perfect turned on, outshines the chip solution in many ways, most notable were dynamics, clarity of the upper highs, followed by a better controlled bass with more natural mids. I repeated this comparison over and over again, not wanting to believe that there was a difference. There was a difference though, and this made me very itchy.

While I explored this difference and was scratching my anatomy big time, it became clear to me that perhaps the chip solution audio used in mass production notebooks, can't compete yet with the likes of Creative or better dedicated sound cards. This is somehow not very surprising, and it follows a trend we've all seen in computer analog audio for years.

On the other hand, I always encourage notebook owners who have optical digital output, to try a decent DAC like the Zero, and see if they like what they hear after any upgrades and burn-in time with the Zero. If they like it, COOL! They win. Important money saved for more music or goodies!

If they sense it might be lacking, then it most likely is, and they should explore some of the dedicated sound card solutions out there. In the end, they will win too!

Just thought I'd toss out my 2 cents worth. YMMV of course.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi, That's what I thought. A better SC would be a huge waste here. Thanx!

as long as the sc seems competant, has DECENT drivers, does not force any kind of resampling on you (a good hint is if it passes thru DTS on the 48k 'carrier' and if your DTS decoder locks.)

there's different levels of tweakiness. personally, I can't tell the sound diff between a cmi8738 (cmedia, somewhat common and very cheap) and the so-called pro envy24, with both being proper pci cards.

I bought both from midiman (I think really midiman, before it became m-audio) and I've had really good 'bit perfect' luck with both. both have coax and opto in and out and both support a non-resampled 44.1 native mode.

what I like most about the cmedia card is the driver:

cmediadrivers - Google Code

I trust that driver and that makes all the diff in using that card (on xp). on linux, that card has been working for over 10 yrs - its as stable as it gets.

the envy24 was a closed-source driver for a long time. I bought a copy back when that 4front (?) company was selling linux binary drivers. (those were the days...). if I wanted my $200 pci card to WORK on linux, I had to pay for the driver. I did and things worked just fine for a long time. I thought I used this card back in 99 or 2000 timeframe.

years later they finally opensourced the envy24 chipset and I no longer had to deal with binary drivers. but by then I mostly switched over to using the cmi style cards.

the envy24 is 'better' but I have yet to heard any major problems from either of those 2 pci cards.

lately, though, I prefer usb-to-spdif dongles for my digital audio out solution, since pci cards are 'clunky' and aren't needed for decent audio anymore.

 

[x_lk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif Was the HDAM attached to the socket via the cable or did you have to do it? I thought AG was initials of the manufacturer?

The HDAM is attached to the socket via extension cable. It is then glued to the bottom of chassis by double side adhesive tape. I guess you are right, the 'AG' on PCB is the name of manufacturer. Which pin is the ground then? Somebody answers me, please ... anyone?

 

[ScottieB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten /img/forum/go_quote.gif What my question was, if you have two cards with no issues(no snapping, crackling, popping), is there any reason to buy the Uber Premum card $$$$ if you are bypassing the DAC and OpAmps on the SC anyhow?

I suppose I wasn't clear in my response but when I said:
"I'd say the best course of action is to try it with your built-in card. If it sounds good, then you're good to go. If you have issues that you can't seem to solve, it's a good chance a better audio card would help. "

What I meant was that in my opinion, if you're getting a clean signal from your onboard card, then I don't see a reason to buy another sound card.

 

[shampoosuicide]

I've noticed 2 problems when using my Zero, which is the basic version with the opamps replaced by the OPA267:

1) When silent, turning the volume pot past the 12 o'clock mark, I can hear a rather audible hiss, which increases if I turn the volume pot further.

2) After performing the cap snipping mod on my Zero, hiss and noise on certain recordings became more distinct, and distortion occurs on the louder portions of certain tracks. Is this a fault of the Zero or the recording? Did the caps actually perform any positive, useful function? The Lampizator calls them "unnecessary".

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penchum /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey LG, Lots of opinions on this topic, but little fact I'm afraid. If both were noise free, and the other parameters were equal, there is a good chance you would not detect the difference between the two, when using an outboard DAC. This would normally be a correct and commonly observed truthful answer. SNIP>>>>>>>>

Hi,
I wasn't cler here. I'm not using the onboard audio. It is disabled, and I have a good SC in place. I was wondering if buying a "gooder" card would make a difference. Sounds like most likely not. Rather than dump $200 on another SC, I'd rather get a LD MKV or better phones or something else. Thanx for your info and all you've contributed to the community here. I have some LD Reviews by you I have slated to read tonight!

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif the envy24 was a closed-source driver for a long time. I bought a copy back when that 4front (?) company was selling linux binary drivers. (those were the days...). if I wanted my $200 pci card to WORK on linux, I had to pay for the driver. I did and things worked just fine for a long time. I thought I used this card back in 99 or 2000 timeframe. years later they finally opensourced the envy24 chipset and I no longer had to deal with binary drivers. but by then I mostly switched over to using the cmi style cards.

BTDTGTTS

I'm sure we've trod some of the same ground.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottieB /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I meant was that in my opinion, if you're getting a clean signal from your onboard card, then I don't see a reason to buy another sound card.

Hi,
My onboard audio is disabled and I have a "good" PCI card in place that does well. I see what ya mean though. My onboard audio had some issues, then bought a Creative X-Fi and it had Vista 64 issues, so ended up with HT Omega and am real happy with it.