[Henmyr]

I have a slight "problem" which I doesn't seem to get right, and I think it's the Zero which does this. I wonder if anyone else notices this.

Problem: The problem is very similar to sibilance, but instead of a spike in the sound, I get a flat and dry "shhh".

Take a line from "Porcupine tree - The sound of muzak" for exemple:
Should be: "One of the wonders of the world"
Is: "One of the wondershh of the world"

It is not a painful sound, but rather annoying. I can't seem to get rid of it, no matter which op-amp I use. Some are better some are worse.

It's mostly the s-sounds which which is emphasized, but not to the point that I would call it sibilance. I don't want them at all however.

So, anyone else got this or is there something about my setup, such as my cables which is the cause? The problem is with all of my headphones, and both with the zero amp and with the Little Dot MKIII.

Maybe I should get one of those optical glass-cables.

 

[vvanrij]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henmyr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a slight "problem" which I doesn't seem to get right, and I think it's the Zero which does this. I wonder if anyone else notices this. Problem: The problem is very similar to sibilance, but instead of a spike in the sound, I get a flat and dry "shhh". Take a line from "Porcupine tree - The sound of muzak" for exemple: Should be: "One of the wonders of the world" Is: "One of the wondershh of the world" It is not a painful sound, but rather annoying. I can't seem to get rid of it, no matter which op-amp I use. Some are better some are worse. It's mostly the s-sounds which which is emphasized, but not to the point that I would call it sibilance. I don't want them at all however. So, anyone else got this or is there something about my setup, such as my cables which is the cause? The problem is with all of my headphones, and both with the zero amp and with the Little Dot MKIII. Maybe I should get one of those optical glass-cables.

Well I would be really surprised if the problem is in your cable

. Try listening to the same record on some cheaper gear, and focus on it. I got the feeling that this is some 'unwanted detail' that you can only hear on better gear.

 

[Emanuel]

Hi to all the people involved in this thread!
I was just wondering..I wanted to update my audigy sound card with a dac, and my intention was to buy a usb dac (like the superpro 707) to plug and hear beatiful analogue-like music. Then I found this cute little thing which doesn't have the usb, but I've understood that can be plugged, for example, in the optical output of my current sound card. What I'm asking is: the quality of my digital audigy output does matter(its processed in someway)? It will be better to take digital signals out of my usb? I can set the sampling rate of my digital output for example, I don't know what it means..
Thanks for any clues about that

 

[edguetzow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henmyr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a slight "problem" which I doesn't seem to get right, and I think it's the Zero which does this. I wonder if anyone else notices this. Problem: The problem is very similar to sibilance, but instead of a spike in the sound, I get a flat and dry "shhh". Take a line from "Porcupine tree - The sound of muzak" for exemple: Should be: "One of the wonders of the world" Is: "One of the wondershh of the world" It is not a painful sound, but rather annoying. I can't seem to get rid of it, no matter which op-amp I use. Some are better some are worse. It's mostly the s-sounds which which is emphasized, but not to the point that I would call it sibilance. I don't want them at all however. So, anyone else got this or is there something about my setup, such as my cables which is the cause? The problem is with all of my headphones, and both with the zero amp and with the Little Dot MKIII. Maybe I should get one of those optical glass-cables.

Hi, Henmyr!

I just listened to that song and I think it is the recording. It sounds fine to me via MP3. Wilson pronounces "music" as "muzik". His "s" pronunciation seem to lean toward a "z" sound" to me. I don't hear th "sh" as you do.

BTW, I am using a new glass toslink recommended by Penchum but I don't think that the cable would cause your effect.

 

[Henmyr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edguetzow /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi, Henmyr! I just listened to that song and I think it is the recording. It sounds fine to me via MP3. Wilson pronounces "music" as "muzik". His "s" pronunciation seem to lean toward a "z" sound" to me. I don't hear th "sh" as you do. BTW, I am using a new glass toslink recommended by Penchum but I don't think that the cable would cause your effect.

Yes when I think about it more it more like a "z" instead of an "shhh".

It's not only that song/album though. It's present in many songs and many albums by many artists. Maybe it's not a gear problem at all as you all say, but rather something which very often is present in the recording. "S" sounds seem to be VERY hard to get right, if it's the recordings and not my gear.

It's kind of annoying though as it is a reminder that it is a recording I listen and not the reality.

Even the HD650 had it, so it's not my taste in rather bright headphones which is the problem.
------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: About the LT1358:

I have used it for a while today and have to say that I really enjoy it's rather natural midrange. The voices sound very clear and natural, moreso than OPA627 (if my pair is legit, but I can't see how they could not, as I find them to have every feature they should have sonically). The OPA627 is more laid back and with a little bit bigger soundstage.

My perfect op-amp would probably be:
The transparancy of LME49720 (LT4562)
The natural/neutral midrange of LT1358/OPA627 but with the clarity of LME49720
The soundstage of OPA627
The bass of OPA627
A middleground of OPA627 and LME49720 treble.

I really like everything about the LME49720 EXCEPT... the rather small soundstage and the slightly "dark purple/dark blue" coloration. Every time I use it I first get very excited about the transparancy, but soon get very annoyed by the rather dark coloration, similar to the DT880 but without the warm midrange. No headphone I've tried with it yet have "clicked" with it. I did find synergy between Zero dac (LME49720) and LD MKIII (Mullard EF92 CV131).

 

[Penchum]

Humm was correct.

 

[Penchum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henmyr /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes when I think about it more it more like a "z" instead of an "shhh". It's not only that song/album though. It's present in many songs and many albums by many artists. Maybe it's not a gear problem at all as you all say, but rather something which very often is present in the recording. "S" sounds seem to be VERY hard to get right, if it's the recordings and not my gear. It's kind of annoying though as it is a reminder that it is a recording I listen and not the reality. Even the HD650 had it, so it's not my taste in rather bright headphones which is the problem. ------------------------------------------------------ snip

I was wondering, at the same time this ZZZ thing is happening, what has become of the "ring" on the ride cymbals and tone of the crash cymbals?
Are they having a similar smearing effect, at the same time? Or something like that?

 

[ccschua]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henmyr /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes when I think about it more it more like a "z" instead of an "shhh". It's not only that song/album though. It's present in many songs and many albums by many artists. Maybe it's not a gear problem at all as you all say, but rather something which very often is present in the recording. "S" sounds seem to be VERY hard to get right, if it's the recordings and not my gear. It's kind of annoying though as it is a reminder that it is a recording I listen and not the reality. I really like everything about the LME49720 EXCEPT... the rather small soundstage and the slightly "dark purple/dark blue" coloration. Every time I use it I first get very excited about the transparancy, but soon get very annoyed by the rather dark coloration, similar to the DT880 but without the warm midrange. No headphone I've tried with it yet have "clicked" with it. I did find synergy between Zero dac (LME49720) and LD MKIII (Mullard EF92 CV131).

Yes I am having this problem as well. I am using the DAC preamp out to tube amp and then to my B&W speakers (602 S3). No mater what I changed, the Shss is there and it becomes very bright. I am using stock OPA2604, and this opamp helps very little.

I actually COMPARED the ZERO DAC with Marantz CD63 KI (Ken Ishiwata) cd player. I found the Marantz cdp is way more sweet and warm then the zero. The vocal is very pronouced and the soundstage is wider.

I hope to try out DY2000 and LT1358, to bring out the kind of sweet and warm vocals.

Note : Isnt the Zero DAC implements the burr brown same like the marantz cdp

 

[prospero21]

Hey guys,

after letting the zero burn in for about 100 hours, I rolled the opamps today. I bought 3 x OPA627's from Lawrence, so I fitted 627's in the dac aswell as in the amp. I must say that for listening through speakers this combination is simply awesome, but for headphone pleasure's my initial feeling is that it sounds a bit too harsh and there is some apparant "sshh" in Eva Cassidy's voice... Ive ordered samples of the TL1364 from Linear so im hoping that combination proves a bit more relaxed on the ears... But having said that, the "open-ness" of these opamps is truly stunning ! Im hearing sounds ive never heard before on tracks that ive listened to at least a 1000 times

Very enlightening, as these are my very first steps on the semi-high-end audio path and I feel an addiction on the horizon..

 

[Henmyr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penchum /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was wondering, at the same time this ZZZ thing is happening, what has become of the "ring" on the ride cymbals and tone of the crash cymbals? Are they having a similar smearing effect, at the same time? Or something like that?

It's mostly the found in the vocals. It's not the kind of sibilance which jumps out and cut me in the ear. It's not a sharp sound. It's flat, dry and sometimes pronounced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prospero21 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey guys, after letting the zero burn in for about 100 hours, I rolled the opamps today. I bought 3 x OPA627's from Lawrence, so I fitted 627's in the dac aswell as in the amp. I must say that for listening through speakers this combination is simply awesome, but for headphone pleasure's my initial feeling is that it sounds a bit too harsh and there is some apparant "sshh" in Eva Cassidy's voice... Ive ordered samples of the TL1364 from Linear so im hoping that combination proves a bit more relaxed on the ears... But having said that, the "open-ness" of these opamps is truly stunning ! Im hearing sounds ive never heard before on tracks that ive listened to at least a 1000 times Very enlightening, as these are my very first steps on the semi-high-end audio path and I feel an addiction on the horizon..

What headphones do you use? HD580? The LT1469 is rather good in the amp for bright headphones. I like it very much with my RS1. I do however think they would be an awful combination with HD580. LT1364 could work well.

 

[Penchum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henmyr /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's mostly the found in the vocals. It's not the kind of sibilance which jumps out and cut me in the ear. It's not a sharp sound. It's flat, dry and sometimes pronounced.

So this is more of a "upper mid" range thing. It really sounds like a recording issue. Either the vocals are too close to the Mic, or the source was analog and is now digital with too much filtering. Also, some vocals are purposely kept from being too bright during mixing. If this isn't happening on all of your music, I would be suspicious that the source contains the issue in one way or another. Any thoughts??

 

[Penchum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccschua /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes I am having this problem as well. I am using the DAC preamp out to tube amp and then to my B&W speakers (602 S3). No mater what I changed, the Shss is there and it becomes very bright. I am using stock OPA2604, and this opamp helps very little. I actually COMPARED the ZERO DAC with Marantz CD63 KI (Ken Ishiwata) cd player. I found the Marantz cdp is way more sweet and warm then the zero. The vocal is very pronouced and the soundstage is wider. I hope to try out DY2000 and LT1358, to bring out the kind of sweet and warm vocals. Note : Isnt the Zero DAC implements the burr brown same like the marantz cdp

How many hours do you have on the Zero? Have at least 100hrs before critical listening of any type. If you are there already, a change in Opamps is what you need. You didn't tell us what headphones you are using, so it is difficult for us to recommend which Opamps.

 

[Henmyr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadmanwalking /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well in fact the LM6172 is doing nothing spectacular, just sounding "right". The LT1358 ultimately sounded a bit too rounded in this particular DAC, the stock LT1364 was better. The LT1028 has been the most transparent and impressive opamp so far, perhaps I'll go back to it if the LM6172 doesn't convince at length - but for now it does.

My understanding was that the LM6171 was rather picky, and that it wouldn't work in the Zero. Am I wrong, or is the LM6172 very different from LM6171?

I also really like the transparancy the LT1028 have, but it doesn't work well in the Zero due to heat and dc offset from the preamp/dac output.

EDIT: BTW, I'm using the LT1358 in the dac at the moment, and I like the fact that it have a nice midrange, but without the warmth which often is the case (LT1364)

 

[timb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadmanwalking /img/forum/go_quote.gif I see. No it shouldn't cause the sibilance, but certainly it will cause an overal coldness to the sound as compared to the Blue Jeans optical. At least these were my impressions.

Wait, what?

An optical cable is an optical cable.

Do you understand how optical works? It's pulses of light representing binary data. On or off, light or no light. Unless you're running the optical cable well over 20 feet, a glass cable will make zero difference, and even then you'd be better off with coax.

Let me reiterate this; it's PCM sent over an optical S/PDIF link, it's not going to sound colder or warmer. It's a digital signal.

While I'm on the subject, I'd also like to point out there is zero difference between coax and optical digital. It's the exact same S/PDIF signal, just transmitted two different ways. That means you cannot hear a difference, no matter how much you think you can.

 

[timb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadmanwalking /img/forum/go_quote.gif The matter is more complex... Do you know about jitter? How can you say that the presence of jitter won't influence the tonality. The sound is composed of tonal colors among everything else... wheter converted into digital or not. BTW, the difference between the supplied optical (with the Zero), the Blue Jeans optical, and the Blue Jeans coaxial, is all there and very audible. You're forgetting the influence of the transmitting and receiving circuitry inside transport and DAC, anyway.

Explain to me what you think jitter is and how a Blue Jeans cable will introduce less of it.

Also, you do realize that your super fancy cable still plugs into a cheap TOSLINK port that has a plastic / resin lens on it, right? That's still your bottleneck.

The only reason you would need a fancy optical cable is for really long runs or high bandwidth applications, and the audio you're piping through is relatively low bandwidth.