[AngryBaconGod]

Quote:

I personally did not notice any significant change with break-in. The MS300 felt like the bass increased a little, but the MS400 sounds the same now as when I first got it.

 
OK, thanks.
 
I've just received a brand new MS400, and they sound a lot darker or "veiled" than I was expecting, given the reviews I've read.
 
Having said that, I was lost with thorough enjoyment in the music after only a few minutes getting to know them.
 

 

[AngryBaconGod]

Well, I do think the character changed after an hour or two of listening, and improved quite a bit. They no longer sound like there's cloths in the ear cups.
 
 

 
Quote:

 
BTW, are you able to compare the bass quality and quantity of the MS400 with any of these cans?
 
...
and for fun... IE8
 

Did you ever compare directly? I did a bit of A/B'ing tonight listening to some bass heavy music directly from an iPod Touch, and the IE8's at the minimal bass setting with Comply's have more up front and powerful bass. The ie8's definitely shine while the Phiaton's sound a bit dull... that actually holds for the mids and highs as well, incidentally. I wonder if the Phiatons will continue to improve. I also wonder if a small amp will improve them at all.

 

[AngryBaconGod]

So... I've been using these headphones for about a week now... I expect I have at least 30-40 hours on them. I've found them to be great overall, but just a tad too dark for my tastes.
 
As an experiment, I bought an equalizer app for my iPod Touch (called eQu). It's a clumsy to use app, but it lets you shape your equalizer settings between 32Hz and around 15kHz, by creating points and dragging them around on the eq curve. I presume it calculates a spline, but I don't know.
 
Anyway, I took the Headroom frequency response curve from the ie8 page on headroom as a basis and created a a curve which is a flattened inverse of that FR graph... flat to 1kHz, +3dB at around 4.5kHz, drops down to maybe 1dB at around 8.5kHz, and back up to +3dB at 15kHz and tried out a variety of music.
 
To my novice ears, it brings the treble to life without impacting the mids or bass. And seems to bring these headphones into a nice balance.
 
I know better than to try this with analog equipment but I don't think there's much impact to SQ doing this in the digital domain to the original digital signal (provided the app is coded well).
 
Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any insights worth mentioning?
 

 

[Armaegis]

Quote:

Did you ever compare directly? I did a bit of A/B'ing tonight listening to some bass heavy music directly from an iPod Touch, and the IE8's at the minimal bass setting with Comply's have more up front and powerful bass. The ie8's definitely shine while the Phiaton's sound a bit dull... that actually holds for the mids and highs as well, incidentally. I wonder if the Phiatons will continue to improve. I also wonder if a small amp will improve them at all.

It's a bit odd comparing headphones to iems... they present their sound in such different ways. Personally, I don''t wear iems so I can't offer any comparisons here.
 
 

 
Quote:

So... I've been using these headphones for about a week now... I expect I have at least 30-40 hours on them. I've found them to be great overall, but just a tad too dark for my tastes.
 
As an experiment, I bought an equalizer app for my iPod Touch (called eQu). It's a clumsy to use app, but it lets you shape your equalizer settings between 32Hz and around 15kHz, by creating points and dragging them around on the eq curve. I presume it calculates a spline, but I don't know.
 
Anyway, I took the Headroom frequency response curve from the ie8 page on headroom as a basis and created a a curve which is a flattened inverse of that FR graph... flat to 1kHz, +3dB at around 4.5kHz, drops down to maybe 1dB at around 8.5kHz, and back up to +3dB at 15kHz and tried out a variety of music.
 
To my novice ears, it brings the treble to life without impacting the mids or bass. And seems to bring these headphones into a nice balance.
 
I know better than to try this with analog equipment but I don't think there's much impact to SQ doing this in the digital domain to the original digital signal (provided the app is coded well).
 
Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any insights worth mentioning?
 

That treble "life" you speak of is actually the resonant peaks that most people hear for high frequencies. It's different for each person, but typically around the 2, 4, 8, 16 kHz range. A lot of people find these peaks unpleasant, and many headphones are designed to minimize these peaks a little bit. The Phiatons have a particularly pronounced drop at those spots. It sounds great to my ears because I am very sensitive to those frequencies, but it depends on the person.
 
 

 

[Icy56]

So... I've been using these headphones for about a week now... I expect I have at least 30-40 hours on them. I've found them to be great overall, but just a tad too dark for my tastes.
 
As an experiment, I bought an equalizer app for my iPod Touch (called eQu). It's a clumsy to use app, but it lets you shape your equalizer settings between 32Hz and around 15kHz, by creating points and dragging them around on the eq curve. I presume it calculates a spline, but I don't know.
 
Anyway, I took the Headroom frequency response curve from the ie8 page on headroom as a basis and created a a curve which is a flattened inverse of that FR graph... flat to 1kHz, +3dB at around 4.5kHz, drops down to maybe 1dB at around 8.5kHz, and back up to +3dB at 15kHz and tried out a variety of music.
 
To my novice ears, it brings the treble to life without impacting the mids or bass. And seems to bring these headphones into a nice balance.
 
I know better than to try this with analog equipment but I don't think there's much impact to SQ doing this in the digital domain to the original digital signal (provided the app is coded well).
 
Anybody have any thoughts on this? Any insights worth mentioning?
 

Can you post a picture of how that eq setting would look like if you set it up on an equalizer? I don't understand much about equalizers but my source has one so I would really like to try that out and see if it improves the sound of my phiatons. I like how the phiatons sound but I find them a little too dark so making them a little brighter would be great for me.

 

[AngryBaconGod]

Quote:

That treble "life" you speak of is actually the resonant peaks that most people hear for high frequencies. It's different for each person, but typically around the 2, 4, 8, 16 kHz range. A lot of people find these peaks unpleasant, and many headphones are designed to minimize these peaks a little bit. The Phiatons have a particularly pronounced drop at those spots. It sounds great to my ears because I am very sensitive to those frequencies, but it depends on the person.
 

Thanks for the feedback. I'm including the graph for reference... should have done so originally.
 

 
So, those drops are deliberate. Assuming some level of accuracy with the graph, those drops are in the order of -10dB to -12dB range. My little bumps of +2dB to +3dB can't be making much of a difference (except wasting energy and headroom), and so I suspect the difference I'm hearing is more to do with my inability to get the same slopes as the graph near those sinks. So I'm really boosting frequencies near the drops, probably creating quite the jigsaw of a path through the graph.
 
So I think I'm on the wrong track doing this. I'm now of the mind that a more linear treble boost starting around 1.1kHz might produce a slightly brighter sound without inherently changing the character of the headphones.
 
Hmmm.
 
 
Icy56,
 
I would use my iPod to take a picture, but well...
 
Just take the graph you see above, flip it upside down and narrow the differences a fair bit, if you want to play with it.
 
 
 
 

 

[Armaegis]

+2 or 3 dB are well within the sense of human hearing, but who knows. Hearing is a fickly an subjective thing. If you're looking for something that has a bit more sparkle to it, have you ever tried the MS300?

 

[AngryBaconGod]

Quote:

+2 or 3 dB are well within the sense of human hearing, but who knows. Hearing is a fickly an subjective thing. If you're looking for something that has a bit more sparkle to it, have you ever tried the MS300?

Heh, I spent a bit of time trying to decide between MS300 and MS400. I ended up choosing what I did for the bass extension. I'm pretty happy with these headphones with a touch of added treble - they certainly fulfill their intended purpose - and I suspect I wouldn't have enjoyed the MS300's as much as these.
 
Back to the other topic, I'm an amateur audiophile - I know what I like but don't have the language to describe it to the real audiophiles, but I have no qualms about comparing the MS400's to IE8s, so I'll simply say that the IE8's are superior to the MS400's in every way I can think. Better bass (quantity and extension), better treble (though still considerably darker than my two channel setup), better mids, a more immediate feeling of being in the middle of the music (soundstage I guess). The IE8's submerge me in the music more than the MS400s. Having said that, the MS400 are by no means a slouch to my ears and I'm very happy with them. My first few hours (after the first) with them were spent with a grin on my face.
 

 

[Armaegis]

iems present music much more "directly", and for many people this is a preferred way to hear their music. For others, speakers are the way to go. I just shrug at the whole apples to oranges thing and let it be. For my environments iems would actually be more suitable for me, but I have very sensitive ears and can't stand to have anything in them, so I go with headphones.
 
On the MS300 vs MS400, I've been meaning to update my comparison thread. After spending a bit more time with the MS300, I'm quite surprised at how well they take to amping. It completely brings their bass end up to compete with the MS400, and even surpass in terms of detailing.

 

[WakiDabeast]

is it like the more fluff the less bass and is the change noticable because to me it seems pretty big but it might just be me now i have to use the classical eq to bump up the bass and low mids 

 

[Armaegis]

It wasn't a huge change for me, but it probably also depends on the type of cotton and how much you use. For me, I attribute the change more to the psychoacoustic phenomena due to increased comfort.

 

[WakiDabeast]

I think my ms 400 is no dark enough mine is all kids and I feel like they really did Change it so I was wondering what should I put for more bass and less mids

 

[Armaegis]

Hmm, you could always try covering the baffle vents with some tape. See my comparison thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/523079/review-comparison-phiaton-showdown-ms-300-vs-ms-400-vs-ps-500
Scroll down to the modding part for some pics.

 

[WakiDabeast]

so this will increase bass and could u take a picture of the gauze u use lol i have like 10 different types of gauze  XD or are they just like the normal medical ones in packets or in rolls? 

 

[WakiDabeast]

Quote:

Hmm, you could always try covering the baffle vents with some tape. See my comparison thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/523079/review-comparison-phiaton-showdown-ms-300-vs-ms-400-vs-ps-500
Scroll down to the modding part for some pics.

which ones is the baffle vents. and for the bass vents or w/e its a risk to take it off right no promised results ?