[RickEC]

Received it today after 2 failed delivery at my doorstep. First impression is that the output is balanced across the frequency spectrum. That translates to natural sounding. When compared, Zero with Earth HDAM sounds dark at a few ranges of frequencies - mostly bottoms and mids. It came with Mode B installed, while Mode A came in a smaller box. Will start to burn in....

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickEC /img/forum/go_quote.gif Will start to burn in....

Burn-in is a long process with the dac-19mk3 ... however, I discovered lately that you can "speed-up" the burn-in period in audio components by playing pink noise (you can download an intersting free tool here Burn-in wave files: white noise, pink noise, frequency sweep, channel mix) or by playing the Isotek Burn-in CD.

 

[RickEC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim.a /img/forum/go_quote.gif Burn-in is a long process with the dac-19mk3 ... however, I discovered lately that you can "speed-up" the burn-in period in audio components by playing pink noise (you can download an intersting free tool here Burn-in wave files: white noise, pink noise, frequency sweep, channel mix) or by playing the Isotek Burn-in CD.

Thanks for the pointer. Do I need to switch on my amp to burn-in the DAC? Hopefully not necessary as I don't need a heater in my room at night.

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickEC /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the pointer. Do I need to switch on my amp to burn-in the DAC? Hopefully not necessary as I don't need a heater in my room at night.

I don't think you need to switch your amp. But I have to admit that I let my equipment always on as it always sounds better after warm-up (even when it is fully burned in). However, if you have a big tube amp, that might be an issue

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Funny you should mention the Ref 1. I was testing a DAC19MK3 for a local customer and plugged it into the Phoenix. After listening for a while, I switched to the Ref 1. The jump was shocking, as if the soundstage had gone from a studio to concert hall. Not at all subtle. This even if I was using speakers with the little Parasound Zamp. I reckon though the DAC19MK3 would give a Benchmark DAC1 a run for its money though, going by the time I compared the Compass with it. Much of what impresses people with the Benchmark is its brightness.

Hi guys,

I just wanted to share with you some info I got regarding dac19mk3 vs. Ref-1.

I have been interested in the Ref-3 upsampler/de-jitter box for quite some time (to get rid of the transport issue) so I contacted Kingwa about it today to ask him how the Ref-3+dac19mk3 compares to the Ref-1.
Kingwa's answer was pretty clear : there is no comparison between the Ref-3+dac19mk3 vs. Ref-1. The sound of the Ref-1 is in another league compared to Ref-3+dac19mk3 combo, let alone the dac-19mk3 by itself. This is exactly what Currawong mentioned in his comparison.
Usually, Kingwa is pretty restrained when making comparisons. So it is hard to imagine (for me) the kind of improvements expected from this upgrade... While I am totally satisfied with my current equipment, I can't stop thinking about what the Ref-1 could bring to the mix. I better start saving some many ...

RickEC, any new impressions on your unit after burn-in ?

 

[Patu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim.a /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi guys, I just wanted to share with you some info I got regarding dac19mk3 vs. Ref-1. I have been interested in the Ref-3 upsampler/de-jitter box for quite some time (to get rid of the transport issue) so I contacted Kingwa about it today to ask him how the Ref-3+dac19mk3 compares to the Ref-1. Kingwa's answer was pretty clear : there is no comparison between the Ref-3+dac19mk3 vs. Ref-1. The sound of the Ref-1 is in another league compared to Ref-3+dac19mk3 combo, let alone the dac-19mk3 by itself. This is exactly what Currawong mentioned in his comparison. Usually, Kingwa is pretty restrained when making comparisons. So it is hard to imagine (for me) the kind of improvements expected from this upgrade... While I am totally satisfied with my current equipment, I can't stop thinking about what the Ref-1 could bring to the mix. I better start saving some many ... RickEC, any new impressions on your unit after burn-in ?

It's useless to ask the manufacturers to do this kind of comparisons. Even IF they would personally prefer the sound of the cheaper product (which probably rarely, if ever, is the case) they couldn't tell you that. More expensive gear in own lineup is automatically better. Though I don't question the superiority of Ref1, which has to be better than DAC19Mk3. It's 3x the price of DAC19.

 

[Currawong]

slim.a: To get the benefits of the Ref 1, you need to run it balanced. IMO, the ability of the Ref 1 is best appreciated with high detail-resolving systems, such as those with electrostats. Especially so with the Ref 3 + 1 combo I have. I don't believe you'll get a good $500 SQ benefit from the Ref 3 unless you already have a top-end DAC (ignoring the feature-set). The difference for me was about the same as Amarra is, that is, fairly subtle.

Patu: In my experience, Kingwa has been completely honest about the performance of his gear, including stating when something wont have any or much useful benefit, though your point is very valid.

 

[RickEC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim.a /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi guys, RickEC, any new impressions on your unit after burn-in ?

Slim.a, I look forward to give my 2 cents.... but I think they are not ready for harvest yet. Right now, I am very impressed by it through casual listening. Will cook them further before giving them critical A/B.

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif slim.a: To get the benefits of the Ref 1, you need to run it balanced. IMO, the ability of the Ref 1 is best appreciated with high detail-resolving systems, such as those with electrostats. Especially so with the Ref 3 + 1 combo I have. I don't believe you'll get a good $500 SQ benefit from the Ref 3 unless you already have a top-end DAC (ignoring the feature-set). The difference for me was about the same as Amarra is, that is, fairly subtle.

Yes, that is exactly what Kingwa said. Ref-3 would be "overkill" for the dac-19mk3 and if I buy the Ref-1 I should use a truly balanced/high quality amp such as the Roc or Phoenix ... which would then probably lead me to buy a sennheiser hd-800 to get the "full" potential of the system

My conclusion is that I am going to stick with my current equipment for now since I am totally satisfied by it. Introducing a new component (a new dac or head-amp) might upset the balance and set me on another buying cycle ...

In fact, after replacing my plywood/acrylic platforms on top of my sandboxes with Maple platforms was an unbelievable upgrade to my system. Compared to my previous platform solution, the sound improved in dynamics but mostly in the sense of realism. This is weird to explain but the DF1704 module has always sounded a little thin in comparison to the PMD100. However, with the new Maple platforms, there was an increase in image density and believability.

When I listened last night to the 24/96 album - Mozart Violin Concertos - Marianne Thorsen - 2L - downloaded from hdtracks, I felt for the first time that I was there at the recording venue. I have never been fooled by a playback system to this extent.
On the first track (by the way, you can download a free sample here), the hollographic representation was breath-taking.
When I focused my attention to the violin standing out. It wasn't just a violin, there was a real person standing out from the croud (Marianne Thorsen?) and she was moving her bow in a believable and three-dimensional way and everything just made sense. The combination of the sheer level of details and the beauty of the timbre of the violin were just mind blowing. I could not only hear but feel the bow making the strings and the body of the violin vibrate.
All the other instruments playing were also tonally right and believable.

I have been spending countless hours on tweaking/upgrading my system these last few months. I even went as far as trying different platform supports for my Bada Filter (something you would expect from Patrick82).
So it was with a great sense of relief and satisfaction that I felt yesterday that I got "that" sound representation I was looking for

. I hope it can last long enough before I have to start another upgrade cycle

.

 

[KevM2]

This is a truly amazing DAC. It provides all the details without that digitalness. I can describe digitalness as the sound having a high contrast between the highs and lows so that you can focus on each 'distinctive sound'. With digitalness, everything is overly crisp and the instruments sound like they're being played in their own isolated plane, so instead of a singular music performance, it sounds like a guitar sound clip is being played on the left in complete isolation from the drums on the left. With this DAC, the detail is there but all of it blended together cohesively. I think that's the biggest thing I like about this DAC. It remains detailed, but it brings the music together as whole without sounding soft or blurred. Instead of sitting and saying, "Hey, I can hear that a drum sound I haven't heard in the background!," you'll just get back to what matters the most-- the music.

I'm still in the process of burning it in, but I like what I'm hearing a whole lot.

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevM2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is a truly amazing DAC. It provides all the details without that digitalness. I can describe digitalness as the sound having a high contrast between the highs and lows so that you can focus on each 'distinctive sound'. With digitalness, everything is overly crisp and the instruments sound like they're being played in their own isolated plane, so instead of a singular music performance, it sounds like a guitar sound clip is being played on the left in complete isolation from the drums on the left. With this DAC, the detail is there but all of it blended together cohesively. I think that's the biggest thing I like about this DAC. It remains detailed, but it brings the music together as whole without sounding soft or blurred. Instead of sitting and saying, "Hey, I can hear that a drum sound I haven't heard in the background!," you'll just get back to what matters the most-- the music. I'm still in the process of burning it in, but I like what I'm hearing a whole lot.

In my opinion, there are 3 kind of DACs in the entry level and mid-level of dacs.

The first kind is the "digital" sounding DACs. They somewhat overemphasize the mid-treble section to give the illusion of "high resolution" and they usually bass light and lack cohesiveness as KevM2 described. I am thinking about the EMU 0404 usb and other sound cards.

There is a second kind of DACs/CD players. They don't try to reach for the ultimate resolution, but they try to cover-up any digital harshness by glossing over the details and smoothing over transients. I am thinking about the Zero dac for example but as well as many "musical" entry level CD players I have auditioned. They usually have added warmth in the mid bass and rolled-off highs to do the trick. I haven't tried any tubed output dac, but I guess that the result could be equivalent (depending on tubes). While the representation of those dacs and cd players are enjoyable, they lack resolution and it seems "bloated" once you have listened to the third kind.

The third kind of DACs takes another route. The conversion is done right from the source, so there is no need for trickery to tweak the sound. I am thinking about the dac-19mk3 but also some other high-end players I have auditioned (atoll cd-200, ...). Those DACs and CD players use natural sounding conversion, so they don't need to add any false warmth or gloss over the details.
The dac-19mk3 is the most detailed DAC (cd players) I have audiotioned under 2000 euros, yet it also the most "analog" sounding. (The comparison is not fair since I mostly audiotioned speakers systems vs. my headphone set-up as a reference in mind).
So why the dac-19mk3 doesn't sound "disjointed" like the "digital" sounding ones ? I think that the dac-19mk3 (and other dacs at this level) render much better the low level details which gives us spatial clues to reconstruct the soundstage. This is what is perhaps called "air" between instruments and performers. In comparison a Zero dac (or comapss dac) sounds cohesive but somehow "bloated" because of a lack of resolution and overly smoothed sound.

To sump, the dac-19mk3 sounds cohesive not because of a lack of resolution or intrument separation but because it aims for a natural and realistic portrayal of the recorded event. This is something that neither the "digital" sounding ones nor the "warm" sounding ones aim for.

 

[koven]

Anyone ever compare this DAC w/ the PS Audio DLIII?

 

[somestranger26]

Quote:

Originally Posted by koven /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyone ever compare this DAC w/ the PS Audio DLIII?

Nothing specific as far as I know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've pinpointed what I like about this DAC vs several others I have tried. It has enough detail to convey the natural ambience/reverb of the recording without being bright or harsh. It is really amazing to listen and compare to the top three SigmaDelta DAC's: Benchmark, Lavry, and PS Audio. This little sucker just walks all over them.

 

[dukja]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JulioCat2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yesterday my musiland monitor 01 arrives install driver 1.07 in my laptop, canare digital cable to my DAC19MK3 and voila!!!!!! huge stage but really huge!!!!!!! it's like surround sound from just 2 speakers these thing transport the recording studio to my house, much better than the M-audio spdif out, resolution improves, i can hear everything in the recording loud and clear, my DAC9MK3 almost arrives, it's in DHL Van so i'll report a compare between both soon.

I am interested in DAC9MK3 as well. It is the Ref 1 minus DSP (from what I can tell). Please report how it sounds (and maybe comparison with DAC19MK3) since I have not find a dedicate thread for it.

Thanks!!

 

[regal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by somestranger26 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nothing specific as far as I know.

This 19MK3 is a much better DAC than the PS Audio III, smoother highs, better midrange and less digititis.