[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I switched over and plugged in the UE-11, again I found this combo to a bit too bass heavy. The HDP did do pretty well with some of the more complex metal I threw at it. Listening to Diablo Swing Orchestra I felt the HDP kept it's focus and did not strain to handle some of the more complicated tracks. *edit - I must have had my V-DAC in the mix when I did this because I am listening to the UE-11 and HDP right now and they sing together... wow, great combo. Better synergy than with the SRG II. Listening to Let's Never Stop Falling in Love - Pink Martini, very impressed with what I am hearing. I can hear a hiss if I stop the music and turn the volume up to 3 or past but it does not seem as audible as the SRG II is with the UE-11. The few times I switched back to the Solo SRG II I felt that the Solo was quite superior. Even with the HDP dac in the mix vs the Solo fed from an iPod the Solo's soundstage, detail, and instrument separation was unmatched. I did prefer the added bottom end and warmth of the HDP with the k702 and think the amp is a fantastic value for what you get. The build is better than the pictures look, very solid with a nice weight. I also really like the feel of the volume knob, very smooth movement and again just feels like good craftsmanship.

Thanks for the feedback. I got a little confused by the part I put in bold above, where you said the HDP/UE11Pro had better synergy than SRG II but then said when you switched to SRG II it was superior. With the UE11Pro, I assume the HDP was a bit bass being heavy via the V-DAC but then using the built-in DAC the synergy was much better? I just wanted to clarify because I also find the HDP built-in DAC/Amp combo is a nice match with the UE11Pro, while other DAC/amps including my Pico DAC/ALO Amphora are a bit bass heavy with the UE11Pro (mini-DAC/WA6 is perfect). It interesting because the HDP is not a bass-lite amp to tame the bass, but rather it just does a good job of controlling the bass.

From what I read, it seems like you liked the APS V3 D5000 more with SRG II, but the UE11Pro more with HDP; and while it appears you liked the K702's frequency response with HDP I wasn't sure whether that was enough to offset the lesser soundstage vs the SRG II. Have you had a chance to try other headphones with the amps yet?

I agree it is a fantastic value for what you get for $449, and it seems to me that the HDP beats everything else I've heard in this price range. As I said here before, I didn't feel the amp passed up my WA6, nor does the DAC pass up my Apogee mini-DAC (except for the Apogee headphone out). I have a paucity of DACs between $400-$1000 on hand, and a paucity of amps that would also fall between $400-$1000, so I can only compare the HDP to DAC's cheaper than $400 or more costly than $1000.

The HDP DAC keeps up easily with the DACport, Micro DAC and Pico DAC only. I did compare it's RCA out to my $699 Digital Link III before I sold the DLIII, and the DL III was a little warmer and more spacious as an optical/coax DAC, but the DLIII USB DAC was less detailed than the one in the HDP.

The amp is a little better than my Travagans Red with OPA627 opamps (which is better than my Nuforce Icon, EF2 or Qinpu A-3), and the gap between the Amphora and HDP is a little bigger. In my comparisons with the EF5, the HDP is more detailed but not as powerful, and while the EF5 is better with my HE-5 and HD600, the HDP is better with HD800 and all my IEM (not sure which is better with HF-2 yet). Both are below my WA6 and Amphora. I found the SRG II was not as good as my WA6 or Amphora, and in some cases the SRG II, SAC KH1000 and EF5 swapped places for preference, entirely depending on what phones I was using. Based on auditory memory I had wondered if the HDP was on the level of the SRG II that I had borrowed back in January but could not compare, so I appreciate your input about these two vs each other.

 

[K_19]

I honestly didn't think that HDP was in any way bass heavy, even with something like my HD650/RS1 with flats... and felt that it was overall too lean in low/midbass for K701. I really wonder how my DA100 would sound to people finding HDP bass heavy!

I've bought two amp/sources since I've sold away my HDP; Gilmore Lite and DA100. As an amp I feel that GL really outperforms HDP in every way (and still think that as an amp, HDP is no better than the EF1 I used to have), but as a DAC I feel that DA100 and HDP is around the same level... I just went with DA100 as it is more suitable for my rig overall but really do miss the detail retrieval and speed that HDP offers sometimes.

 

[wakeride74]

Sorry for the confusion, let me explain. Yes I was using the HDP at home with my V-DAC and felt the signature was a bit too warm and bassy with the UE-11. I brought both to work with me and was using a ALO LOD to RCA with just my iPod and found the synergy with the UE-11 to be very enjoyable. The SRG II did do a better job of making the UE-11 feel less like an IEM and expand outside of my head where the HDP sounded a bit more left and right but the overall signature and energy with the HDP and UE-11 was more enjoyable to my ears than the SRG II and UE-11.

As for the times I switched back and found the SRG II superior this was the case with the UE-11 with certain music like Pink Martini, Norah Jones, and others that might have a more jazz style bass line that can be a bit hefty in the low frequencies.

As for the K702 it really was a soundstage/instrument separation (SRG II) vs. more warmth and bass quantity/impact. Tough call and really depends on the music. Listening to Hilary Hahn Sibelius: Violin Concerto - 1. Allegro Moderato and the acapella Le Mystère des Voix Bulgares I felt the SRG II's soundstage and instrument separation really complimented these types of music with the K702 but then switching to acoustic, big band, and jazz I preferred the added warmth and low end of the HDP.

The D5000 with metal was awesome with the HDP, I kept listening to a variety of stuff from NIN to Diablo Swing Orchestra and found the guitar tones to be very energetic and nice thumping bass very natural for this genre of music. Again though once I switched to other genres, especially female vocals the SRG II really came out on top. Pink Martini is one of my favorite bands and I use their music to test gear all the time. The SRG II def has a wow factor with genres like this.

For the record I do not think the SRG II is bass heavy and has less bass or "more control" than the P-51 Mustang. My comments are based on A/B with the SRG II and my impressions vary with different sources and genres.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_19 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I honestly didn't think that HDP was in any way bass heavy, even with something like my HD650/RS1 with flats... and felt that it was overall too lean in low/midbass for K701. I really wonder how my DA100 would sound to people finding HDP bass heavy! I've bought two amp/sources since I've sold away my HDP; Gilmore Lite and DA100. As an amp I feel that GL really outperforms HDP in every way (and still think that as an amp, HDP is no better than the EF1 I used to have), but as a DAC I feel that DA100 and HDP is around the same level... I just went with DA100 as it is more suitable for my rig overall but really do miss the detail retrieval and speed that HDP offers sometimes.

I'd like to hear the Gilmore Lite someday. I have tried the Gilmore Reference on loan for a couple of weeks a year ago which was nice, but after I compared that to my Sq Wave XL and WA6 I didn't think it surpassed those either. I did a write up somewhere in which I thought with certain phones that the Reference matched the Sq Wave and Amphora, but with other phones it was slightly on the cold side of neutral sounding and didn't like it as much as my own amps. The GL is about the same cost as the HDP, without any of the DAC/preamp functionality, so I wouldn't be surprised if it could be a better amp than the HDP (especially with the upgraded PSU).

As for the EF1 - In my comparisons of the EF1 with Mullard tube upgrade to other amps like DV336i and $120 in tubes and the Cavalli CTH with Mullard, the EF1 was very slightly below the CTH with everything but still above the 336i with everything but HD600. So the EF1 was no slouch. I do feel that my EF5 is an upgrade in sound and a bigger upgrade in power to the EF1, and I think the EF5 is more comparable to the HDP than my previous EF1 was. The HDP strongest suit is how well it works with every IEM that I own, and still having the power and refinement to work nicely with my D7000, HD600 and HD800. The EF5 (and my SAC KH1000) are too noisy and have too much channel imbalance at low volumes to be useable with IEM.

In my case, more recently I have been using the HDP as USB DAC to feed my ALO Amphora with my Macbook Pro, and when I want to listen to the HE-5 then I plug them into the more powerful HDP. I have not been using the EF5 with my Apogee/CD5001/WA6/HEV70 rig much at all. I have the Protector plugged into the back of the Amphora with iMod or HDP as source, for listening to my JH13Pro and HD600 in balanced mode, but these amps are only slightly better than the HDP. While the HDP is on loan to Wakerider74 I have substituted the Pico DAC-only back into this rig. However, if I didn't have those nicer amps, I would be perfectly happy with the HDP for my laptop rig. I actually almost sold my Amphora, but chickened out.

 

[K_19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd like to hear the Gilmore Lite someday. I have tried the Gilmore Reference on loan for a couple of weeks a year ago which was nice, but after I compared that to my Sq Wave XL and WA6 I didn't think it surpassed those either. I did a write up somewhere in which I thought with certain phones that the Reference matched the Sq Wave and Amphora, but with other phones it was slightly on the cold side of neutral sounding and didn't like it as much as my own amps. The GL is about the same cost as the HDP, without any of the DAC/preamp functionality, so I wouldn't be surprised if it could be a better amp than the HDP (especially with the upgraded PSU). As for the EF1 - In my comparisons of the EF1 with Mullard tube upgrade to other amps like DV336i and $120 in tubes and the Cavalli CTH with Mullard, the EF1 was very slightly below the CTH with everything but still above the 336i with everything but HD600. So the EF1 was no slouch. I do feel that my EF5 is an upgrade in sound and a bigger upgrade in power to the EF1, and I think the EF5 is more comparable to the HDP than my previous EF1 was. The HDP strongest suit is how well it works with every IEM that I own, and still having the power and refinement to work nicely with my D7000, HD600 and HD800. The EF5 (and my SAC KH1000) are too noisy and have too much channel imbalance at low volumes to be useable with IEM. In my case, more recently I have been using the HDP as USB DAC to feed my ALO Amphora with my Macbook Pro, and when I want to listen to the HE-5 then I plug them into the more powerful HDP. I have not been using the EF5 with my Apogee/CD5001/WA6/HEV70 rig much at all. I have the Protector plugged into the back of the Amphora with iMod or HDP as source, for listening to my JH13Pro and HD600 in balanced mode, but these amps are only slightly better than the HDP. While the HDP is on loan to Wakerider74 I have substituted the Pico DAC-only back into this rig. However, if I didn't have those nicer amps, I would be perfectly happy with the HDP for my laptop rig. I actually almost sold my Amphora, but chickened out.

I think that the Gilmore Lite is very revealing of the source overall, with very good dynamics and plenty of power. It does mate very, very well with my Stello DA100 (a warm source as you already know) but I wouldn't be surprised if it sounds too cold with other sources. I actually like it better than my WA6 for my RS1/flats combo but I still prefer WA6 for my other headphones overall. Still, it's nice to have a very good solid state alternative and it does very well while I wait for the WA6 to warm up.

And yeah, EF1 is no slouch at all. I just expected the HDP amp to better it easily and I suppose I didn't get enough of that to my ears (however, can't say HDP sounded worse either). I really liked the EF1 while I had it, although as you said it was almost unusable with low impedence/high sensitivity headphones/IEMs... the volume imbalance in the low ranges was awful (and I happen to listen in lower volumes than most) and as I started getting more lower impedence headphones it became clear that I must move on. HDP of course didn't seem to have any of these issues.

 

[techenvy]

Well done HA, 
   i love the small design, but i need toslink    im not farmiliar with that optical input, 3.5mm?   and so its only 96/24? only, ha,,,, but im curious so is there a way to insert toslink in that?    and is its coaxail the 192/24?
     im glad youwere digging the es3x on it, im goin for some um3x, just hope when eq they have large range.
   know of any other small dac, with a 96/24 usb?
 
thanks for the review
 

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Well done HA, 
   i love the small design, but i need toslink    im not farmiliar with that optical input, 3.5mm?   and so its only 96/24? only, ha,,,, but im curious so is there a way to insert toslink in that?    and is its coaxail the 192/24?
     im glad youwere digging the es3x on it, im goin for some um3x, just hope when eq they have large range.
   know of any other small dac, with a 96/24 usb?
 
thanks for the review
 

You just need a small adapter that plugs onto the optical cable that changes the square optical connector to a 3.5 mm one. The HDP came with one already included, and if you lose it then www.sysconcept.ca has them cheap.I also did a review of the DACport 24/96 USB DAC for $399 sale price, which came in above my Pico DAC/amp and slightly below the HDP. But it has the advantage of being entirely USB powered and not needing to plug into the wall. I have links to my reviews in my public profile.

 

[techenvy]

hey thanks,,,  sigh, i can finally stop lookin at dac's! been a week of dac everywhere i see, lol,
 hdp it is cant wait to compare
 
cheerio

 

[tennisplyr3]

Well, I ordered a Nuforce HDP for myself to try, which just got here yesterday (ordered Sunday, shipped Monday via Fedex, delivery scheduled for Saturday, local sorting facility closed on Saturday, finally delivered 8 days later on Tuesday from California to Pennsylvania). I bought the silver unit and intended to pair it with my HD650 and sometimes my RE0.
 
Here are some of my initial impressions:
 
-The packaging is very nice with the exception of the thin black plastic-on-one-side-and-velvety-on-the-other that holds the unit and accessories in place. It feels a little cheap. I'm thinking that I probably won't keep the packaging if I decide to keep the unit. A separate case is probably needed for transport.
 
-The rubber/silicon white for the unit to sit upright on smells really funky, kind of like feet or some chemical smell. Hopefully this smell goes away soon enough.
 
-With the unit standing upright on the stand with the volume knob at the top, the off position is at 7 o'clock. There is no sound that comes from the unit until the knob is turned to 8:45-9 o'clock. The volume will suddenly come up at that point. I can only hear channel imbalance between 8:45-9 o'clock, where you can actually hear the slightest bit of sound from your headphones.
 
-There is a little bit of play in the USB (type B) plug when it goes into the HDP. It's not a tight fit, and the cord wiggles a little bit.
 
-I wish they designed the power plug that goes into the HDP a little better. The L-shaped male plug fits loosely into the female port on the HDP, so it rotates very freely.
 
-With my HD650, a normal listening volume for me is at 10 o'clock with my Windows 7 computer sound set at 100% and my Winamp set at 80% sound. If the album is fairly soft like the Head-Fi "Open Your Ears" album, I need to turn it up a little to 11 o'clock. I don't see how you guys can listen at much higher volumes without damaging your hearing. To be honest I was really surprised at how little I needed to turn the knob to get to a suitable listening volume.
 
-I plugged in my HiFiMan RE0 into the unit only to discover that there is hissing -- a very low level amount of hissing. When I unplug it, there's silence, but when I plug in my RE0 1/8"-->the 1/4" provided adapter-->HDP, I can hear a low level amount of background hiss. It's not so much as a hissing sound as it is a low level humming sound. It's definitely there and audible to my ears. When there's music playing, I don't notice it at all because the hum disappears into the background with the music. I guess this is due to the fact that Nuforce designed the HDP to be used with circumaural/high impendance headphones and not IEMs. I have only tried 1 USB port on my computer (Lenovo T400, left-side, frontest USB port), so I'll try the other 2 in the near future.
 
-Occasionally I'll hear the "badada, badada, badada" buzzing sound that is associated with sound coming from my computer. I don't know what that's from, but I also have heard it with my previous Meier Move. I'm thinking that it's noise generated by my computer associated with USB devices. It's very intermittent and occurs maybe once an hour for 2 seconds.
 
-In contrast with my HD650 directly plugged into my Sansa Clip+, with my HD650 plugged in using the HDP as a DAC/amp combo, there's definitely a noticeable improvement in the lower frequency response. The sound is cleaner and more crisp, with noticeably more "oomph" in the bass. I guess that it's described as "punchy" bass. The midrange and higher frequencies sound noticeably more gritty -- not grainy but more realistic. I can hear micro-details in the background like the musician counting softly to the band "1, 2, 3, 4" to synchronize before the start of a section or the instant when a violinist stops his vibrato on the ending note to a piece. It's very interesting to notice. It makes me wonder whether I'm hearing these details as a result of the amp playing music louder than I would listen to or because of a better DAC/amp as compared to my Sansa Clip+.
 
-I do miss the pure silence of my Sansa Clip+ paired with my RE0 when there's no music playing. I'm tempted to get a dedicated amplifier like the Matrix M-stage to pair with this HDP. Would this solve the low-level humming sound I hear with my RE0?
 
More details to come in the future...

 

[kostalex]

ER-4P/S adapter will solve hissing for less - $45 at Etymotic.com. Or any other high-quality in-line resistor 50-100 Ohm. I found HDP amp good enough to retire my WooAudio 3, when I tried both with HD650. Hissing and imbalance are solved by resistor with my RE252 and TM5, while quality does not suffer.
 
Quote:

I do miss the pure silence of my Sansa Clip+ paired with my RE0 when there's no music playing. I'm tempted to get a dedicated amplifier like the Matrix M-stage to pair with this HDP. Would this solve the low-level humming sound I hear with my RE0?

 

[tennisplyr3]

The one listed on etymotic.com was $65
 

ER4P-24 Cable : Converts ER-4P to ER-4S BUY NOW - $65.00 Eac

 
Is this the one that you use? Does it completely remove all background hum/hiss? Are there any other in-line resistors available? I had trouble finding them.
 
Quote:

ER-4P/S adapter will solve hissing for less - $45 at Etymotic.com. Or any other high-quality in-line resistor 50-100 Ohm. I found HDP amp good enough to retire my WooAudio 3, when I tried both with HD650. Hissing and imbalance are solved by resistor with my RE252 and TM5, while quality does not suffer.
 

 

 

[kostalex]

I use it and I do not recall any hissing with it. Search ebay for alternatives or Apuresound.com.
 

 

[trentino]

Nice impressions tennisplyr3, thanks.

 

[tennisplyr3]

Quote:

I use it and I do not recall any hissing with it. Search ebay for alternatives or Apuresound.com.
 

 

Would this work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/IMPEDANCE-RESISTANCE-ADAPTOR-3-5MM-6-35MM-PLUG-/300338066075?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45ed8b329b
What's the difference between good and bad resistance adapters? Would the sound signature be dramatically altered?

 

[ayz]

any reason to go with 75 or 120 ohm? Given that the HDP amp has sufficient power wouldn't a 300 ohm adapter sound better?
 
i usually use HD-600s with my HDP but I also have a pair of ATH-M50's I like to use occasionally... the sound is much louder on the M50 so I'm considering getting one of the resistance adapters as well.