[Strale]

How much does it cost that DAP?

I always wanted something good for mobility. Hmm I recall something from AK....SP2000 is that the one that is R2R?

This is A&K SR35 with CS43198 DAC chip - costs approx 750 - 800 eur. The one with R2R is A&K SE300.

 

[jjss]

Very interesting. What about general sound signature of the Phonitor? They say it is neutral, but I am afraid that 'neutral' sometimes could actually be a bright sounding (fatiguing). How much is it easy, polite on ears?

I am very curious on Phonitor 2 Vs. Violectric V590 Pro comparisons (in terms of black background with and without ground box).
Thanks.

The Phonitor 2 was designed to be use in studios as another reference and check to a mix / mastering to studio monitors and the 2 does an excellent job in this regard. My experience is that a true neutral flat reproduction system will give you a truly balanced reproduction if this is what you're looking for, as any coloration may change the tonality and sometimes even the spatial cues in a mix. The 2 hence gives you the more authentic reproduction. No it isn't bright and not fatiguing by its pwn right provided that you're using a "comfortably sound" headphone. The 2 has quite a few gain settings but unfortunately placed at the bottom of the unit - something isn't easy to reach but it does has gain change feature. So pairing headphones in general isn't an issue. I sometimes use the Tago Studio T3-01 with the 2 and it drives the T3-01 with authority and authenticity. Will share my observations of 590 Pro and comparison with the 2 when I can find more time to spend with the 590. Cheers ..

 

[Strale]

Joke a side the R1 NOS is something different with uplifting energy.

The R8H2 stops time and makes you relax in your chair.

These two dacs have the same DA boards but does not share the same black background.

If someone is really after that black background I will not recommend anything else than atleast R8H3. Go all in if you are for that black background. This is going to be a big spent because the fun begins when you have an DDC by Audio-gd no matter which dac you own from the brand...

What amp do you pair with your R-8HE MK2? I always thought that 'black background' signature is created more in the amp (I thought DAC contribution is smaller).

 

[OCC7N]

What amp do you pair with your R-8HE MK2? I always thought that 'black background' signature is created more in the amp (I thought DAC contribution is smaller).

The amp does add this effect you are right, some sweet analog, velvety texture. Not much.

The Audio-gd HE-9 LE is very special, because the sound is still very transparent. The thing it does to the cheap SSL12 "dac" is unbelievable. That is because the dacs has good potential, if it was a bad dac it will be as exposed and bad sound that comes out. I have had more dacs on this headphone amp and it shows all the weakness, but also strength of course, like it does on SSL12.

Black background is more related to powerdesign. The R-1NOS is also connected to same HE9-LE, the black background is not close.

The Regenerative PSU in R8H2 is respondsible for most of the black background, not all.

As an good example you can compare Matrix SPDIF-2 vs SPDIF-3. The latter will have a much better blacker background and soundstage = power design upgraded.

 

[Strale]

Hmmm, I see...HE-9 LE is not regenerative power supply unit. Neither is R-1 NOS. So pairing those two is no providing a desired effect (black background).
But when you paired regenerative power supply DAC (R-8HE MK2) with amp which is not regenerative power supply unit, black background was more pronounced.
Then I am wondering, what would be like to pair for instance HE-9 MK3, which is regenerative power supply amp, with the DAC which is not regenerative power?

 

[OCC7N]

Hmmm, I see...HE-9 LE is not regenerative power supply unit. Neither is R-1 NOS. So pairing those two is no providing a desired effect (black background).
But when you paired regenerative power supply DAC (R-8HE MK2) with amp which is not regenerative power supply unit, black background was more pronounced.
Then I am wondering, what would be like to pair for instance HE-9 MK3, which is regenerative power supply amp, with the DAC which is not regenerative power?

Of course buying the H9M3 will enhance the experience.

R7H3 and H9M3.

But it is not all about black background though. I find the R1N better on some music.

If you play relaxed music, with real musicians and not EDM then the R8 and R7 is the way to go, as they have a more laidback timing than the more energetic/repsonsive R1N

 

[Strale]

Finally, what about R-27 RE, like all-in-one solution?

 

[OCC7N]

Finally, what about R-27 RE, like all-in-one solution?

Probably the best AIO money vs highend.

 

[Strale]

So R-27 RE should have a deep black background?

 

[OCC7N]

So R-27 RE should have a deep black background?

Can not answer that, but the REG power design looks exactly like the RH82.

You will probably have to ask RE and HE owners of the 27

 

[Strale]

Thanks a lot @OCC7N and @sajunky for all your clarifications!

 

[OCC7N]

Thanks a lot @OCC7N and @sajunky for all your clarifications!

When you go up from R-1 NOS. You also get more information in the songs, the music is not only more relaxing, but at the same time also "tiring" because there is soo many information in just one note being played or a word from a singer.

It is not information like resolution you would find in a deltasigma. It is more concentrated with more weight/density.

It is important that the source has a good power solution, even though it is HE models, it can easily collapse: sound too dark/veiled or mushy as some has reported. With a good source the sound is more saturated, which makes it life-like.

DI20HE is a very good addition to take the sound further. It opens up more and makes the bass notes sweeter.

I could say go all in, but I rather recommend you start low so you know where you are heading.

R28NOS and DI24HE. This combo should be hard to beat. Youtube videos of the mk2 is pretty positive, and if the NOS model is an upgrade. I rather risk 1150/28NOS dollars on a DAC than 2390/27RE dollars on R27RE. The DDC will probably be a keeper no matter what DAC you get because of what it does to the music.

Do I think the R28NOS and DI24HE would equal or maybe beat the 27RE. Yes. It will not replace or enhance to the same black level maybe, but still achieve same level enjoyment. The R27RE can not beat what the DI20HE does*. I assume the 24HE even takes this further, I have no experience with the 24HE, but I know 90% what the DI20HE does.

*None of the Audio-gd DACs can do what the DI20HE does. It is the missing link.

 

[Strale]

The Phonitor 2 was designed to be use in studios as another reference and check to a mix / mastering to studio monitors and the 2 does an excellent job in this regard. My experience is that a true neutral flat reproduction system will give you a truly balanced reproduction if this is what you're looking for, as any coloration may change the tonality and sometimes even the spatial cues in a mix. The 2 hence gives you the more authentic reproduction. No it isn't bright and not fatiguing by its pwn right provided that you're using a "comfortably sound" headphone. The 2 has quite a few gain settings but unfortunately placed at the bottom of the unit - something isn't easy to reach but it does has gain change feature. So pairing headphones in general isn't an issue. I sometimes use the Tago Studio T3-01 with the 2 and it drives the T3-01 with authority and authenticity. Will share my observations of 590 Pro and comparison with the 2 when I can find more time to spend with the 590. Cheers ..

Today I had opportunity to listen to Phonitor XE. It sounds fantastic, but I don't feel it belongs to the black background club.

People are saying it lacks bass, but I felt a contrary - sub bass is so strong, I never new AKG K712 can produce it down there. Maybe upper bass was just slightly missing (bass slam as it is usually called) but it sounded perfect to my ears, just the way it is. The mids (vocals) seem to be slightly pushed back in the overall tonal picture. The highs are very clean and precise. Really high definition of every single note. All that produced totally smooth, non-fatiguing sound which made me turning up the volume. I am very sensitive to shouty and harsh upper frequencies, and K712 is certainly not helping in that respect. However, Phonitor XE really put it under control. Nothing was rolled off, but high tonal accuracy and lack of any grain really made it smooth. Everything is under control, but yet very musical and engaging.

I was surprised with such amount of sub-bass. I think it somehow added some 'bloom' to the sound. So, that black background what we are talking about here, was not with Phonitor XE. I though it might be due to Zen DAC which was initially used as a DAC for testing, but then I switched to Phonitor's integrated AKM AK4490 DAC (DAC768) and it did not improve black background aspect of the sound. It just slightly added some sharpness, maybe clarity and punch compared to Zen DAC (I maybe liked more Zen DAC over that integrated DAC768 but not 100% sure...I would need much longer listening sessions to determine that). So something was always 'saturating the air, instead of having a void space'. I am comparing black background aspect with SR35 DAP.

Now, I am even more curious how Phonitor compares to Violectric V590 in terms of black background. I hope we will have something soon from @jjss in that respect

 

[oqvist]

Black background? This is an amp but the thx 789 aaa is like listen to sound in space. So much no sound between notes it feels like you are in a vacuum with no air. Its like this on all dacs currently listening to a new audiolab m-dac+

 

[sajunky]

Black background? This is an amp but the thx 789 aaa is like listen to sound in space. So much no sound between notes it feels like you are in a vacuum with no air. Its like this on all dacs currently listening to a new audiolab m-dac+

I call it "sterile background".