[Strale]

Audio-GD R2R-11 (Mk2) is mentioned here as something that can provide black background sound signature. However, it is discontinued product, so what would be its successor with the same/similar sound signature?

 

[sajunky]

Audio-GD R2R-11 (Mk2) is mentioned here as something that can provide black background sound signature. However, it is discontinued product, so what would be its successor with the same/similar sound signature?

That's a problem, there is no entry-level models anymore. The cheapest in the range R2R-11 I own (pre-mk2) has the same sound signature as more expensive models. A difference is in refinement. R2R-11 can sound fantastic or very bad on the USB port, depends on source (i.e. PCs are very noisy). The upper range is better protected from ground loops. High-end models (R-8 and up) have input for the external 10MHz clock and are offered in two versions: standard and with built in power regenerator (HE suffix). If you don't have power conditioner in your room, HE models present the best value. It is what was said in this thread: get power conditioner.

In the Audio GD shop there is no marketing tricks, you simply chose what you afford. Since the entry level models are discontinued, all current models are true balanced, starting from the ladder (no internal conversions). All have true NOS mode.
.
I didn't hear the latest middle range models called NOS. All inputs are galvanically isolated, but have no FPGA, so there is no oversampling, only NOS like in the R2R-11. But upsampling can be done on the PC and hi-res sources 88k and up do not need further upsampling. I do not upsample CD's, prefering NOS. DSD files play fine, there is a dedicated hardware decoder ladder for DSD.

 

[Strale]

That's a problem, there is no entry-level models anymore. The cheapest in the range R2R-11 I own (pre-mk2) has the same sound signature as more expensive models. A difference is in refinement. R2R-11 can sound fantastic or very bad on the USB port, depends on source (i.e. PCs are very noisy). The upper range is better protected from ground loops. High-end models (R-8 and up) have input for the external 10MHz clock and are offered in two versions: standard and with built in power regenerator (HE suffix). If you don't have power conditioner in your room, HE models present the best value. It is what was said in this thread: get power conditioner.

In the Audio GD shop there is no marketing tricks, you simply chose what you afford. Since the entry level models are discontinued, all current models are true balanced, starting from the ladder (no internal conversions). All have true NOS mode.
.
I didn't hear the latest middle range models called NOS. All inputs are galvanically isolated, but have no FPGA, so there is no oversampling, only NOS like in the R2R-11. But upsampling can be done on the PC and hi-res sources 88k and up do not need further upsampling. I do not upsample CD's, prefering NOS. DSD files play fine, there is a dedicated hardware decoder ladder for DSD.

Thanks for thorough explanation! Too bad they do not have that entry-level model anymore

 

[Strale]

My further research on this topic led me to the SPL Phonitor (there are various versions like Phonitor SE, X, XE...but I think they all share the same signal amplification). According to some reviews it should have black background sound signature. Has anyone here listened to any of those Phonitors? How does it comply to the 'black background' definition from this thread?

 

[jjss]

My further research on this topic led me to the SPL Phonitor (there are various versions like Phonitor SE, X, XE...but I think they all share the same signal amplification). According to some reviews it should have black background sound signature. Has anyone here listened to any of those Phonitors? How does it comply to the 'black background' definition from this thread?

I have the Phonitor 2 and yes its a wonderful piece of gear and background is relatively dark enough, I use RME ADI2-Pro FS to drive it and this DAC is also very clean and transparent. The overall resultant sound is of high quality, but I think there is still room to enhance the "dark background" further based on my experiments done using appropriate ground box - which in the main is to clean up ambient "noises" - RF, EMI interferences. With ground boxes appropriately connected the background can be very very dark and the silence / air between notes, sound images can be very deep like a deep hollow space and room reverb can be heard if this is present on the track.

I now is auditioning the Violectric DHA V590 Pro as a AIO and will see how it performs and if good (black background wise) likely to acquire the gear. All I can say is that this kind of blackness can be very addicting ..

 

[Strale]

I have the Phonitor 2 and yes its a wonderful piece of gear and background is relatively dark enough, I use RME ADI2-Pro FS to drive it and this DAC is also very clean and transparent. The overall resultant sound is of high quality, but I think there is still room to enhance the "dark background" further based on my experiments done using appropriate ground box - which in the main is to clean up ambient "noises" - RF, EMI interferences. With ground boxes appropriately connected the background can be very very dark and the silence / air between notes, sound images can be very deep like a deep hollow space and room reverb can be heard if this is present on the track.

I now is auditioning the Violectric DHA V590 Pro as a AIO and will see how it performs and if good (black background wise) likely to acquire the gear. All I can say is that this kind of blackness can be very addicting ..

Very interesting. What about general sound signature of the Phonitor? They say it is neutral, but I am afraid that 'neutral' sometimes could actually be a bright sounding (fatiguing). How much is it easy, polite on ears?

I am very curious on Phonitor 2 Vs. Violectric V590 Pro comparisons (in terms of black background with and without ground box).
Thanks.

 

[OCC7N]

I am looking for recommendations. After spending couple of years trying out various (mostly affordable) DAC/AMPs, I realized that my preference decidedly tilted towards gears with "black" background. I hope you know what I mean

The most black background I've ever come across in a DAC so far is Audio-GD R2R-11. For AMP that has to be Violectric V200. This is the kind of silence I am looking for - shall I say the ability to render notes out of nothingness? Dare I say "sound of silence" ?

This has nothing to do with measurements because Topping L30/E30 had the best measurements of everything I owned but I felt the air was filled with something. It's not simply about "rolled-off treble" thingy either, because Asgard 3 had rolled off treble (for lack of better term) and it still had something saturating the air, instead of having completely void space.

I am curious about your experience and what other gears you could recommend in this regard. Thanks!

The black background on Audio-gd is not without compromise. The hidden melodies in music is not as noticeable as they are on deltasigma. When you get use to Audio-gd for a long time and change to a deltasigma dac you will notice what I am saying. I still enjoy Audio-gd because it does a lot other things right vs resolution.

You are on the right track if you want that black background. If you look for the blackest background of the Audio-gd I have tried it is R8HE Mk2/3. It is scary.

---

EDIT: Try SSL12 if you have the opportunity. This with a JCAT USB XE. It have some good black background and full musicality with detail retrieval. Not as sweet sounding as R8HEMK2/3, but you get soo much for the money. It does not look like a DAC it is a interface for music produktion, but it will beat a lot of DACs in prices above imo

 

[Strale]

What about Audio-gd R-28 NOS? Does it also belong to this 'black background' group?

 

[OCC7N]

What about Audio-gd R-28 NOS? Does it also belong to this 'black background' group?

Not completely sure about this as it based on the model of the R-1. I also have the R-1 NOS it is not as black as R8H2. This is what makes the R8 special. Completely still and pure black background. Like you can touch it, it feels physical.

 

[sajunky]

What about Audio-gd R-28 NOS? Does it also belong to this 'black background' group?

Every one. Higher model, better background. Combo R-28 NOS is based on R-1 NOS, HP section is based on NFB-1AMP (separate amp is now discontinued).

If you want R-8 level blackness, there are few combo models R-27, all based on the R-8 DAC with HP equivalent to Master 19 (or little up, but below Master 9).

And remember on this level there are versions with built-in power regenerator (denoted HE). HE models are recomended if you don't have central power conditioner. The one @OCC7N owns is HE version.

 

[OCC7N]

R-28 NOS is based on R-1 NOS,

Really? -

 

[Strale]

Ok, I think I am getting a fuller picture after all those comments in this thread so far. To summarize: Audio-gd is performing good in terms of black background, especially with regenerative power supply units. Power conditioner is also mentioned as important piece of gear if such regenerative power supply is not present in the device itself. Also ground box is mentioned as something to improve things. Finally, my very positive experience with DAP SR35, which is a battery powered device, also goes in direction to conclude that 'clean' and stable power supply might be crucial for such sound signature.

 

[OCC7N]

Joke a side the R1 NOS is something different with uplifting energy.

The R8H2 stops time and makes you relax in your chair.

These two dacs have the same DA boards but does not share the same black background.

If someone is really after that black background I will not recommend anything else than atleast R8H3. Go all in if you are for that black background. This is going to be a big spent because the fun begins when you have an DDC by Audio-gd no matter which dac you own from the brand...

 

[OCC7N]

This is something that gives goosebumps with the R8HEMK2. If you like this type of music. With real musicians then Audio-gd is the biggest recommendation. EDM is just another door...sorry

 

[OCC7N]

Ok, I think I am getting a fuller picture after all those comments in this thread so far. To summarize: Audio-gd is performing good in terms of black background, especially with regenerative power supply units. Power conditioner is also mentioned as important piece of gear if such regenerative power supply is not present in the device itself. Also ground box is mentioned as something to improve things. Finally, my very positive experience with DAP SR35, which is a battery powered device, also goes in direction to conclude that 'clean' and stable power supply might be crucial for such sound signature.

How much does it cost that DAP?

I always wanted something good for mobility. Hmm I recall something from AK....SP2000 is that the one that is R2R?