RAZ's TOTL review and rambles thread, on life support
Sep 16, 2020 at 12:17 PM Post #511 of 3,671
Damn, all this talk is making me want to try a 1950 cable 😄😵

Has anyone compared it with the 1960?
@SLC1966 already beat me to it with the long read.

(1960) Cardas Clear Light is coloured in comparison to the Clear (1950) and has a more musical approach in exchange for some technicality. The Clear is dead neutral, but jacks up technicality to 12.

@Colors and I both preferred the Clear Light on the u12t since it brought a bit of life to the music. But my time with the Clear was also magical, a lot of momentd going "Wow the u12t can do this?"

Woop woop! The Fortitude and Prudence are really good cables, I had them in MMCX but I need to order them in 2pin because my plan to find some MMCX IEMs I enjoy kinda failed. The M9 and Andro 2020 are the closest I got to that, but the A12t is in many ways a directly better M9, so I think that'll be coming up for sale very soon :)
As a reformed cable lord, they really are. Easily one of the best looking cables in the price range out there. That Eletech hardware is mhmmmmm.

I've shied away from mmcx since the designed always felt iffy to me. But I've owned the Andro SS and M9 before and those had really good quality sockets but I dunno.

See the Andro 2020 and M9 arn't bad for the price range, just that the 12t exists and does it better. 64! 64! 64! (Just had to get that in!)

I heard it's insanely sibilant though? And once you kinda take out all warmth and body from a dynamic driver, what are you really left with? :D
Ooh ooh I know Michael! The DMagic!
 
Sep 16, 2020 at 12:42 PM Post #512 of 3,671
@SLC1966 already beat me to it with the long read.

(1960) Cardas Clear Light is coloured in comparison to the Clear (1950) and has a more musical approach in exchange for some technicality. The Clear is dead neutral, but jacks up technicality to 12.

@Colors and I both preferred the Clear Light on the u12t since it brought a bit of life to the music. But my time with the Clear was also magical, a lot of momentd going "Wow the u12t can do this?"


As a reformed cable lord, they really are. Easily one of the best looking cables in the price range out there. That Eletech hardware is mhmmmmm.

I've shied away from mmcx since the designed always felt iffy to me. But I've owned the Andro SS and M9 before and those had really good quality sockets but I dunno.

See the Andro 2020 and M9 arn't bad for the price range, just that the 12t exists and does it better. 64! 64! 64! (Just had to get that in!)


Ooh ooh I know Michael! The DMagic!
I think the Andro 2020 has a somewhat more unique value proposition whereas the Sony IER M9 is a bit of a directly worse A12t in a lot of ways

The trouble is, the A/U12t is supposed to be in the price range of the VE8, LX, Anole VX etc etc but the discounts being offered on it kinda put it in a price tier that’s a solid 500-800$ lower than what it actually is, at which point things get a bit... boring lol

I generally see the A12t as one of these options that are just a little too solid for the health of the hobby as a whole - If you love the sound but don’t care for the constant stream of new things and upgrades, sound signatures and whatnot, you could easily just get that and never even create a Head-Fi account

Of course the counterpoint here is that the A12t does sound a little boring, or lacking that uniqueness, but I find that’s well balanced by how technically proficient it is, I.e it’s not getting carried by its tonality
 
Sep 16, 2020 at 12:42 PM Post #513 of 3,671
As far as the technical definition and parameters of dynamics go, @Liberatus pretty much covered it in full. When it comes to how it's heard in an IEM, I believe I've talked about it on Nic's thread some time in the past, but I'll do so again here. Though dynamic range can technically be measured in terms of dB, when I say an IEM has "great dynamic range," I'm referring to its ability to go from soft to loud; laidback to thunderous.

The easiest way I personally determine this is to use a track that builds as it goes on, like Snarky Puppy's Go. The arrangement builds with more instruments thrown into the mix and the whole ensemble growing louder each time. An IEM with great dynamic range should be able to portray that build properly and convey a proper crescendo by the end. Another tell-tale sign is that those IEMs will seemingly sound "empty" when these arrangements first start out, and they'll only sound "filled out" once the arrangement reaches its climax, whereas an IEM with poor dynamic range will sound packed from the get-go and "choke" by the climax. This is quality that I think EE's Odin truly excels in. Heavily-compressed tracks with little dynamic range will sound like packed, scrunched-up balls in the middle of its vast soundscape, while more dynamic-sounding tracks fill its space gorgeously. That's the broader term I'd use to describe dynamic range, and there are probably quite a few nuances I'm missing here, but it is what it is.

Macro-dynamics to me determine an IEM's overall sense of punchiness; slam, power, etc. It can come from any part of the frequency range, though it's most commonly rooted in the extremes. It's why v-shaped IEMs tend to sound punchier than most, but the compromise there is obviously going to be midrange fullness and presence. Th extension of the lows and highs, to me, play a much bigger role than quantity in that regard, as even IEMs with relatively neutral amounts of both can sound punchy when properly extended; say, 64 Audio's A18s. Conversely a v-shaped IEM with less extension, such as Nocturnal Audio's entry-level Avalon, will eventually sound dull following the initial wow first impression. With that said, midrange macro-dynamic energy is also crucial for, say, brass sections in a big band setting, where horn stabs can be relied on to drive the arrangement. And, the same applies to rhythm guitars in rock, or belters in ballads. Macro-dynamic energy I think is what separates sounding punchy from just sounding loud, and it's a broader form of dynamics that one can achieve with shortcuts like, as I said, tuning a v-shape.

Now, micro-dynamic energy is what @mvvRAZ is talking about with regards to a black background. To me, micro-dynamic energy is an IEM's ability to make background sounds and micro-details pop, and a stable, black backdrop is required to do so. Otherwise, those little nuances will just blend into the backdrop and never catch your ear. It's a hallmark of high resolution, and it's less crucial for genres like modern pop, where those micro-details have been brought forward through heavy compression anyway. But, it's crucial for genres like classical, where tiny bells and chimes and choir parts here-and-there all play integral parts in weaving together the story the piece is trying to tell. With those little nuances missing or blending into the "noise floor", I often find those pieces lack emotion; ending up sounding - again - dull.

It's also crucial in a genre like jazz. You can find a great combination of macro- and micro-dynamic energy on Robbie Williams' cover of "I Wanna Be Like You" with Olly Murs. Great micro-dynamic range is required to portray all the rises and falls of Williams' vocals - his little inflections and purposeful shifts in power - to convey the playfulness and fun he's trying to evoke through his performance, which perfectly fit the lyrics and vibe of the track; again, the story it's trying to tell. This'll be a talking point on my FiR M3 review, which is coming soon, by the way. :wink: And, where macro-dynamics come in is the contrast between the quiet, almost sneaky vibe at the start of the track, versus the uproarious, horn-blaring climax. Taking the two together, you get all the joy and glee the track is asking for, and - in my opinion - what everyone involved in making it intended to convey in the first place.

Again, writing this off the top of my head, there are probably nuances here-and-there that I'm forgetting. But, that's the gist of what I've found dynamics to mean for me.

Nice job going specifically in-depth to IEMs. It's funny because I gave the outline of how dynamics works and you described how you view it to appear in IEMs. If you use my post as the rosetta stone for your post you can see clearly why all the things happen that you described as Micro and Macro dynamics.

Just to expand on that briefly, when you and @mvvRAZ say the Micro dynamics are the ability for the IEM to produce a very black background with a low noice floor - One this obviously comes to the noise floor set in the recording and the noise floor of the IEMs and source gear and cables etc. Noise is a big issue in audio world in general, but where the diaphragms and transducers come in to display good dynamics is the better the transducer can move at the fastest and lightest pace the better it can reproduce even the most subtle nuances of sound all the way to the highest peaks of violent loud sounds. So good micro dynamics are capable by a transducer that isn't stuck moving more volumes of air due to its physical cone/diaphragm when it just needs to move very quickly and lightly. If it can only move at s certain pace and rate then it'll just completely miss vibrating out the correct frequencies to reproduce those nuances.

This is why when we hear high end gear were like "Oh wow it's like Im hearing things I never knew were there - or - it's like a veil was lifted." Often times it literally is. Each transducer us physically limited to the amount of air and space and speed at which it can move, each movement is moving air which created the sound frequencies we here. If it's reproducing music with too many sounds at once that it cannot physically do all at once, it's not like it'll just stop moving, it will just only vibrate and reproduce what it can - thus we'll just completely miss out the sounds it's incapable of moving to produce at that moment.

This is the transition to the explanation on you 'Macro 'Dynamics' as well. For example if you have a BA driver that is capable of moving very quickly because it is a diaphragm in a very small space being pushed back and forth between two opposing walls - it's capable of moving very very rapidly. This is good for all frequencies that are high frequencies (High frequencies are very fast vibrations requiring less power, low frequencies are slow vibrations needing more power to produce and more space to fulfill their complete wavelengths)
But- this tight space and rapid movement is NOT good for low end frequencies. The BA doesn't have enough physical space for it's diaphragm to properly flex out and back in a large enough way to produce enough air to accurately reproduce what a punch it kick or woof actually sounds like to our ears in physical space with a lot of sir to move around. Also, if this BA is moving rapidly at the each second to reproduce say a violin - it's moving insanely quick but there's also a kick drum going on, if it needs to move at 20hz(vibrations) per second for the subbass but 10khz(10,000 vibrations) per second for the violin, how do you imagine it can possibly do those both at the same time? It cannot. Not reliably and realistilty. It'll maximize it's vibrations while in movement to do it's best to produce all sounds stacked at one but it cannot do it to it's completeness. So we lose 'detail'

We lose parts of the waveform that the transducer simple doesn't vibrate and reproduce. So with good gear, they separate different transducers that are better suited for different frequencies due to the speed they can move at and the air they can move and focus them to only vibrate to certain parts of the music. The better this is done, the better we get to hear and experience the most subtle sounds to the most powerful all at once or within a track.

This - Is how we get good dynamics in gear. Of course, again it depends on the original song and what gear was used to record it as well.
 
Sep 16, 2020 at 1:18 PM Post #514 of 3,671
I haven’t paired it with the Legend X yet. I wanted to save that until I can spend a lot more time with the cable. I have so much more listening to do.

If you get a chance to mention your impressions... I have a feeling that this cable would really work well with the LegendX. I ended up with the ErosII 8 wire but the 1950 would be epic with the bass. I’d love to hear the Phantom with this cable too.
 
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Sep 16, 2020 at 1:23 PM Post #515 of 3,671
Nice job going specifically in-depth to IEMs. It's funny because I gave the outline of how dynamics works and you described how you view it to appear in IEMs. If you use my post as the rosetta stone for your post you can see clearly why all the things happen that you described as Micro and Macro dynamics.

Just to expand on that briefly, when you and @mvvRAZ say the Micro dynamics are the ability for the IEM to produce a very black background with a low noice floor - One this obviously comes to the noise floor set in the recording and the noise floor of the IEMs and source gear and cables etc. Noise is a big issue in audio world in general, but where the diaphragms and transducers come in to display good dynamics is the better the transducer can move at the fastest and lightest pace the better it can reproduce even the most subtle nuances of sound all the way to the highest peaks of violent loud sounds. So good micro dynamics are capable by a transducer that isn't stuck moving more volumes of air due to its physical cone/diaphragm when it just needs to move very quickly and lightly. If it can only move at s certain pace and rate then it'll just completely miss vibrating out the correct frequencies to reproduce those nuances.

This is why when we hear high end gear were like "Oh wow it's like Im hearing things I never knew were there - or - it's like a veil was lifted." Often times it literally is. Each transducer us physically limited to the amount of air and space and speed at which it can move, each movement is moving air which created the sound frequencies we here. If it's reproducing music with too many sounds at once that it cannot physically do all at once, it's not like it'll just stop moving, it will just only vibrate and reproduce what it can - thus we'll just completely miss out the sounds it's incapable of moving to produce at that moment.

This is the transition to the explanation on you 'Macro 'Dynamics' as well. For example if you have a BA driver that is capable of moving very quickly because it is a diaphragm in a very small space being pushed back and forth between two opposing walls - it's capable of moving very very rapidly. This is good for all frequencies that are high frequencies (High frequencies are very fast vibrations requiring less power, low frequencies are slow vibrations needing more power to produce and more space to fulfill their complete wavelengths)
But- this tight space and rapid movement is NOT good for low end frequencies. The BA doesn't have enough physical space for it's diaphragm to properly flex out and back in a large enough way to produce enough air to accurately reproduce what a punch it kick or woof actually sounds like to our ears in physical space with a lot of sir to move around. Also, if this BA is moving rapidly at the each second to reproduce say a violin - it's moving insanely quick but there's also a kick drum going on, if it needs to move at 20hz(vibrations) per second for the subbass but 10khz(10,000 vibrations) per second for the violin, how do you imagine it can possibly do those both at the same time? It cannot. Not reliably and realistilty. It'll maximize it's vibrations while in movement to do it's best to produce all sounds stacked at one but it cannot do it to it's completeness. So we lose 'detail'

We lose parts of the waveform that the transducer simple doesn't vibrate and reproduce. So with good gear, they separate different transducers that are better suited for different frequencies due to the speed they can move at and the air they can move and focus them to only vibrate to certain parts of the music. The better this is done, the better we get to hear and experience the most subtle sounds to the most powerful all at once or within a track.

This - Is how we get good dynamics in gear. Of course, again it depends on the original song and what gear was used to record it as well.
I love the post! I’ll pin it on the front page in a bit, but I also have a question here

If I understand correctly, manufacturers rely on a combination of transducers that have been optimized to perform the different frequencies, in speakers and IEMs alike

How do single DD IEMs, or single DD full sized headphones (focal utopia for example) manage to accomplish an extremely high level of micro dynamics/detail off a single transducer?
 
Sep 16, 2020 at 2:14 PM Post #516 of 3,671
I love the post! I’ll pin it on the front page in a bit, but I also have a question here

If I understand correctly, manufacturers rely on a combination of transducers that have been optimized to perform the different frequencies, in speakers and IEMs alike

How do single DD IEMs, or single DD full sized headphones (focal utopia for example) manage to accomplish an extremely high level of micro dynamics/detail off a single transducer?

Now you're asking the question arent you! Haha. This is why some make the claim that multiple drivers are always better then single driver. However unfortunately they can take it too far and turn into 'more drivers = more betterz'

This isnt entirely the case. What you want is a proper balance between each section of frequencies per drivers but also a good blend between drivers or you can just have a sound that is very weird when one transducer type is playing a certain frequency and another is playing a different frequency range if they are completely different sounding drivers and not well blended then they just make the sonic landscape sound disjointed and weird. This is where crossovers become important as well as driver selection.

Very high end single drivers can sound amazing because of the material they use for the diaphram and driver. For example in speakers you have anything from paper to brass to silk and many more. The different material for the cones and diaphrams and such mean that when they are vibrating at different frequencies, the thinner or lighter materials can also vibrate better and individually from when the entire unit is moving forwards or back, so the individual microvibrations of the material will help produce more subtle sounds or higher frequency vibrations and such better because the material is adding to the vibrations as well as the entire thing moving to each vibration.

However, theoretically, if you developed the very best possible single driver unit in the world with billions of dollars in R&D - it would theoretically not be able to perform as well as the best possible equivalent time and money spent on multiple driver setup. Because it's just physical limitations. Each driver can only move within a certain space and speed and in music and songs there are hundreds and thousands of different sounds and frequencies to reproduce, many of them all at once. As best as you can make a single driver do, and you can make it amazing, it cannot physically do it all. So having multiple will always be at an advantage.

However, to many human listeners, a single driver can often be perceived as better sounding because the balance, fluidity and synchronicity between all frequencies it is reproducing is done very well. Because it's not multiple drivers with different sound profiles reproducing the same song. It's one unit with one sound profile, so it sounds often more cohesive, especially if the multidriver units haven't spent a lot of time properly blending together their different driver types.
 
Sep 16, 2020 at 2:20 PM Post #517 of 3,671
Now you're asking the question arent you! Haha. This is why some make the claim that multiple drivers are always better then single driver. However unfortunately they can take it too far and turn into 'more drivers = more betterz'

This isnt entirely the case. What you want is a proper balance between each section of frequencies per drivers but also a good blend between drivers or you can just have a sound that is very weird when one transducer type is playing a certain frequency and another is playing a different frequency range if they are completely different sounding drivers and not well blended then they just make the sonic landscape sound disjointed and weird. This is where crossovers become important as well as driver selection.

Very high end single drivers can sound amazing because of the material they use for the diaphram and driver. For example in speakers you have anything from paper to brass to silk and many more. The different material for the cones and diaphrams and such mean that when they are vibrating at different frequencies, the thinner or lighter materials can also vibrate better and individually from when the entire unit is moving forwards or back, so the individual microvibrations of the material will help produce more subtle sounds or higher frequency vibrations and such better because the material is adding to the vibrations as well as the entire thing moving to each vibration.

However, theoretically, if you developed the very best possible single driver unit in the world with billions of dollars in R&D - it would theoretically not be able to perform as well as the best possible equivalent time and money spent on multiple driver setup. Because it's just physical limitations. Each driver can only move within a certain space and speed and in music and songs there are hundreds and thousands of different sounds and frequencies to reproduce, many of them all at once. As best as you can make a single driver do, and you can make it amazing, it cannot physically do it all. So having multiple will always be at an advantage.

However, to many human listeners, a single driver can often be perceived as better sounding because the balance, fluidity and synchronicity between all frequencies it is reproducing is done very well. Because it's not multiple drivers with different sound profiles reproducing the same song. It's one unit with one sound profile, so it sounds often more cohesive, especially if the multidriver units haven't spent a lot of time properly blending together their different driver types.
All of this is good stuff...feel like I'm in a university class. It's very helpful - thank you for taking the time to type this out!
 
Sep 16, 2020 at 5:59 PM Post #518 of 3,671
If you get a chance to mention your impressions... I have a feeling that this cable would really work well with the LegendX. I ended up with the ErosII 8 wire but the 1950 would be epic with the bass. I’d love to hear the Phantom with this cable too.

I will gives some impressions on the LX pair up. It won’t be for a few weeks though. I’m sure @aaf evo could comment here though. I think he said that the Legend X and 1950’s was the best pairing he had heard.

This and the later comments are what I first heard... immediately. I could not believe the separation, the subtle tones and basic unmasking of any veiling of subtle nuance.
Sometimes I would find it all getting very intense and realize it was just too loud. I'm not sure if anyone else has this experience but particularly in 2 channel audio, good gear is so clear that you can't really tell how loud it is. I used to have to ask my wife if it was too loud because everything was so present that I figured it must be because the volume was up.
I get that with this cable on my Solaris 2020 and WM1Z because everything is laid bare. It's really unbelievable.

I wanted to pick up on your comment here about it being loud and intense. I absolutely agree with this. In fact I wrote a comment on the PW Audio thread about how I felt the 1950’s sort of had its own volume. I wasn’t sure how else to describe it. But yes the sound felt very intense and well, loud. I think you’re right though that the cable is just so clear and there is so much going on throughout the IEM’s full range from the lowest to the highest point that it initially sounds just loud, but really it is detail and clarity that we are hearing.
 
Sep 16, 2020 at 6:09 PM Post #519 of 3,671
I will gives some impressions on the LX pair up. It won’t be for a few weeks though. I’m sure @aaf evo could comment here though. I think he said that the Legend X and 1950’s was the best pairing he had heard.



I wanted to pick up on your comment here about it being loud and intense. I absolutely agree with this. In fact I wrote a comment on the PW Audio thread about how I felt the 1950’s sort of had its own volume. I wasn’t sure how else to describe it. But yes the sound felt very intense and well, loud. I think you’re right though that the cable is just so clear and there is so much going on throughout the IEM’s full range from the lowest to the highest point that it initially sounds just loud, but really it is detail and clarity that we are hearing.

It’s been a long time since I owned both but the 1950s brought the Legend X some much needed (IMO) bass control and stepped up its technicalities to a whole new level. Made the overall sound more balanced to my Ears.
 
Sep 16, 2020 at 8:08 PM Post #520 of 3,671
good gear is so clear that you can't really tell how loud it is

That's a really interesting point that I hadn't thought of quite like that. The absolute best system I've ever heard in my life was at the Palais in Cannes. I saw Swedish House Mafia there in 2010. I remember being totally caught off guard by how good the sound system was. The bass was fathomlessly deep-- powerfu, all-encompassing and you could feel it passing through every pore of your being. The thing I remember most about it though was how despite how powerful and immersive the sound was-- you felt engulfed in every detail-- it didn't seem too loud. It was easy for two people in a crowded club to carry on a conversation without straining their voices too much. I have always wondered what it was about the system that made that possible and based on your comment I now suspect it was the clarity.
 
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Sep 16, 2020 at 8:10 PM Post #521 of 3,671
That's a really interesting point that I hadn't thought of quite like that. The absolute best system I've ever heard in my life was at the Palais in Cannes. I saw Swedish House Mafia there in 2010. I remember being totally caught off guard by how good the sound system was. The bass was fathomlessly deep-- powerful and all-encompassing. The thing I remember most about it though was how despite how powerful and immersive the sound was-- you felt engulfed in every detail-- it didn't seem two loud. It was easy for two people in a crowded club to carry on a conversation without straining their voices too much. I have always wondered what it was about the system that made that possible and based on your comment I now suspect it was the clarity.

“good gear is so clear that you can’t really tell how loud it is”

Ufff, this literally reminds me of the Erlkonig. <3
 
Sep 16, 2020 at 8:14 PM Post #522 of 3,671
Ufff, this literally reminds me of the Erlkonig. <3

I'm on the VE Canadian tour circuit and I'm REALLY hoping we get the Erlky edition at some point.
 
Sep 16, 2020 at 10:10 PM Post #523 of 3,671
It’s been a long time since I owned both but the 1950s brought the Legend X some much needed (IMO) bass control and stepped up its technicalities to a whole new level. Made the overall sound more balanced to my Ears.

That’s what I expected. I think if I had had this cable when I had the LX I might have stopped there. Makes me really want to try it again.
 
Sep 16, 2020 at 10:17 PM Post #524 of 3,671
“good gear is so clear that you can’t really tell how loud it is”

Ufff, this literally reminds me of the Erlkonig. <3

Can’t wait to receive mine :relieved:
 

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