Predator vs. Pico?

[OptionTrader]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drag0n /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ahhhhhh!!!! 14 pages of predator vs pico, and also other threads about this, and nobody has really said anything. I see alot of type and text, but i know nothing of the comparison. What kills me,is i heard both at a meet,but it was on different headphones, and it was noisy there,so i really couldnt compare. Really i was most impressed with the Portaphile amp,for a portable. It had punch,which is all you can hear at a meet. You cant hear blackness or look for hiss or detail with 50 people in a small room laughing and talking. I should have put both side by side and yelled "shut up!!!" and compared right there,but i didnt....it was my first meet...lol. Next meet ill be more bold..lol. So ....those of you that have compared both......amp to amp,,and dac to dac........the differences please! (With all due respect of course ) . (((Shakes)))

I understand your frustration, but by now you should also know that not many people have had much time with either, or much less both of them. I have a Predator and am still waiting for the delivery of my Pico. I can't wait to make my own comparison!

 

[Capunk]

Predator vs Pico vs Lisa III vs SR-71
Whoever write the comparison, it will be a BIG shootout!


[size=xx-small]
whoever win, my wallet can't stop screaming[/size]

 

[melomaniac]

Well, sorry but let me just ditto the impatient, frustrated, and generally lust-ridden, jealous, and otherwise crazed heads here: I've been semi-obsessed with USB DACs for too long, have owned too many I didn't like, and need to replace my Total Bithead soon (it's getting a bit long in the total tooth). These two seem like very likely candidates... Can't justify getting both because I won't have the time to compare and eliminate inside of a month... Will have to piece together some indications from what people post here I'm afraid...

 

[jlingo]

I have both: predator is not up-front. THESE SOUNDS ARE BOTH USING INTERNAL DAC, Thinkpad T60 Laptop, and UE11.
Pico sound is in fact more upfront sounding compared to the predator. Predator soundstage is very expansive, SUPERBLY AIRY! VERY OPEN OPEN, TRANSPARENT. you can feel a very big sense of air spaces with predator. The bass and the high are I think the big strengh of predator, the bass goes very deep tight with authority WOW here and the high is very sparkling with clarity(GREAT FOR GUITAR).(Could be bright on unmatched system), Awesome separation and A VERY DETAILED amp Great for Classical. It's good for most type of music especially pop, rock, R&B. But on some recordings, I find the midrange(Female voices) is somewhat lacking compared to the hornet, and on certain situation I seem to be longing for more midrange. But then it's not even 200hrs burn-in yet. It’s got a WOW Factor because of the openness all a sudden nothing is congested. Perfect for IEM so you will never feel stuffy.

Pico is on the other hand HYPNOTIC sounding! It’s got life, it’s got body, it’s got emotion and seduction to it. It’s about SINGING about MUSICALITY. The MIDRANGE IS ITS BIGGEST STRENGTH, SWEET, it’s more my most preferred type of midrange. The bass and the high are very articulate. Everything is very articulate. I guess that’s the great signature of Justin’s amp. What I like about Pico, is that it already sounds good from the very beginning you received the amp. The BODY and MIDRANGE RICHNESS really remind me of many high end home audiophile system I heard. LIQUID MILKY, FLOWY, SMOOTHY. If you love midrange, vocal, slow music, look no further but PICO!! Pico could accompany you during your lonely moment without wife nor girlfriend. 

Anyhow, I’m very surprised that I have to say that Both Pico and Predator are EXCELLENT AMPS, again, I usually tend to prefer Predator for Rock, R&B, Fast sounding music. Pico when I feel like being seduced completely. But you won’t go wrong with either way. I could see how one would prefer one and the other, because they are both great in their own ways.

Both pico and predator could be considered warm but not overly warm.

 

[Bozz_Keren]

@jlinggo
so you're gonna keep 'em both?

btw which one is better with HD650

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Comparing these two as amps only is just splitting hair, that's the DAC implementation that is vastly different and really counts.
Or may be that was just for me.

 

[Bolardito]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlingo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have both: predator is not up-front. THESE SOUNDS ARE BOTH USING INTERNAL DAC, Thinkpad T60 Laptop, and UE11. Pico sound is in fact more upfront sounding compared to the predator. Predator soundstage is very expansive, SUPERBLY AIRY! VERY OPEN OPEN, TRANSPARENT. you can feel a very big sense of air spaces with predator. The bass and the high are I think the big strengh of predator, the bass goes very deep tight with authority WOW here and the high is very sparkling with clarity(GREAT FOR GUITAR).(Could be bright on unmatched system), Awesome separation and A VERY DETAILED amp Great for Classical. It's good for most type of music especially pop, rock, R&B. But on some recordings, I find the midrange(Female voices) is somewhat lacking compared to the hornet, and on certain situation I seem to be longing for more midrange. But then it's not even 200hrs burn-in yet. It’s got a WOW Factor because of the openness all a sudden nothing is congested. Perfect for IEM so you will never feel stuffy. Pico is on the other hand HYPNOTIC sounding! It’s got life, it’s got body, it’s got emotion and seduction to it. It’s about SINGING about MUSICALITY. The MIDRANGE IS ITS BIGGEST STRENGTH, SWEET, it’s more my most preferred type of midrange. The bass and the high are very articulate. Everything is very articulate. I guess that’s the great signature of Justin’s amp. What I like about Pico, is that it already sounds good from the very beginning you received the amp. The BODY and MIDRANGE RICHNESS really remind me of many high end home audiophile system I heard. LIQUID MILKY, FLOWY, SMOOTHY. If you love midrange, vocal, slow music, look no further but PICO!! Pico could accompany you during your lonely moment without wife nor girlfriend.  Anyhow, I’m very surprised that I have to say that Both Pico and Predator are EXCELLENT AMPS, again, I usually tend to prefer Predator for Rock, R&B, Fast sounding music. Pico when I feel like being seduced completely. But you won’t go wrong with either way. I could see how one would prefer one and the other, because they are both great in their own ways. Both pico and predator could be considered warm but not overly warm.

How does the Pico compare with Lisa III?

 

[jlingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bozz_Keren /img/forum/go_quote.gif @jlinggo so you're gonna keep 'em both? btw which one is better with HD650

uhm yup keeping them both for now

By listening to the signature of HD650 I think the predator might be better with HD650. The reason is because HD650 is veiled and dark. Predator is very open, revealing, sparkling high(Bright), deep bass. HD650 midrange is already very sweet to start off with.

This is the hardest part in buying any amp. Looking for the proper synergy.

 

[jamato8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlingo /img/forum/go_quote.gif uhm yup keeping them both for now By listening to the signature of HD650 I think the predator might be better with HD650. The reason is because HD650 is veiled and dark. Predator is very open, revealing, sparkling high(Bright), deep bass. HD650 midrange is already very sweet to start off with. This is the hardest part in buying any amp. Looking for the proper synergy.

How do you mean bright? On my 650's I don't hear bright, which to me is a top heavy high frequency range that can be aggressive, but I do hear good detail with a clean well defined high frequency that is pleasing. I have found that the bass control is very good and that over time the mid range has gained an analog slightly warm sound.

 

[jlingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolardito /img/forum/go_quote.gif How does the Pico compare with Lisa III?

If we are talking about the Amp sound quality itself, I think LISA is way up there. It's very Holographic, Soundstage is BIG, very dynamic, also hypnotic. :/

But I tend to differentiate between Sound Quality and Sound Signature.

For the sound Signature, Pico is VERY ENJOYABLE!! You could easily forget about its sound quality, forget about analyzing and just concentrate on purely listening.

Honestly, I don't miss my LISA at all, if I don't really compare side by side.

 

[jlingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif How do you mean bright? On my 650's I don't hear bright, which to me is a top heavy high frequency range that can be aggressive, but I do hear good detail with a clean well defined high frequency that is pleasing. I have found that the bass control is very good and that over time the mid range has gained an analog slightly warm sound.

I meant the predator amp itself, excels with high, and bass by default. The high is sparkling, and could be considered bright with some headphone for example GS1000.

HD650 on the other hand is always known for being, dark sounding(veiled to some), sweet midrange, ok bass.

So I guess, predator: sparkling high, deep bass, ok midrange + HD650: Dark High, GOOD Sweet Midrange, ok Bass could results in An AMAZING Synergy.

That's what I was trying to convey. I hope it clarifies, sorry for the confusion.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlingo /img/forum/go_quote.gif If we are talking about the Amp sound quality itself, I think LISA is way up there. It's very Holographic, Soundstage is BIG, very dynamic, also hypnotic. :/

"Hypnotic" is not a very standard term in describing sound, can you please elaborate on your definition of it.
On amp/headphone synergy. Many here subscribed to the view that amp should be as transparent as possible, and not to act as an equalizer in between source and headphones. If the signature of particular headphones is not up to your valley, you probably need to get another headphones and not try to adjust it via amplifier. Good amp should universally match any headphones, i.e. let you hear what specific headphones were intended to sound like.

 

[jh4db536]

jlinggo,

i concur with everything except your description that the predator is warm. It is one of the coldest analytical amps i have ever heard (makes good synergy w/the hd650 though; already too much weight, slow, and warm). Predator has thin sound but tons of fast punch. The bass on the Pico actually extends lower than the Predator. The highs are definitely stronger than sweet (like a notch or 2 less than harsh - brings out the highs in the 650). That's why it sounds so clear and detailed.

The Pico is very warm. So warm that i now find it sufficiently Different from the headamp desktop amps.

i wanna make sure we're on the same page:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/des...ossary-220770/
Analytical - Highly detailed.
Warm - Good bass, adequate low frequencies, adequate fundamentals relative to harmonics. Not thin. Also excessive bass or mid bass. Also, pleasantly spacious, with adequate reverberation at low frequencies. Also see Rich, Round. Warm highs means sweet highs.

A malfunctioning predator doesn't sound too good i take it. But cold and analytical as i describe it, i like the sound a lot.

BTW my predator has <100 hours on it so who knows that huge cap might burn in. I have actually noticed some transformation going on with the predator in the short time that ive had it.

 

[jamato8]

If you are hearing the Predator as cold an analytical I can not deny what you are hearing but that is the opposite of what I hear by a long way. Interesting though. It sounds like yours might be malfunctioning. I have a tube amp right here to compare it to and it is more like a tube amp than a solid state one, though it is very fast and clean and does not smear frequencies like some poorer implemented tube amps can sound.

 

[mchang]

I'm likely way out of my league here, but isn't the statement below "in theory."

As in "in theory" an amp that is purely "wire with gain" would be ideal so as to let the headphone's sound signature show through.

But in reality, most amps -- even SS -- seem like they favor one spectrum or another. As a result, the "synergy" term comes into play.

Lastly, don't many (me included) choose headphones sometimes based on other factors -- other than sound preference? Price, fit and comfort and "coolness" are just a few.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Hypnotic" is not a very standard term in describing sound, can you please elaborate on your definition of it. On amp/headphone synergy. Many here subscribed to the view that amp should be as transparent as possible, and not to act as an equalizer in between source and headphones. If the signature of particular headphones is not up to your valley, you probably need to get another headphones and not try to adjust it via amplifier. Good amp should universally match any headphones, i.e. let you hear what specific headphones were intended to sound like.