[jh4db536]

i think the Pico sounds more like a tube amp than the Predator...based on my 1 week stand with tubes**

Or my neutral reference is warm. All i own is solid state.

So all tubes must sound warm; solid state can sound like SS and tubes? I don't believe an amp has to be warm to sound musical.

I want to discuss this further so i can get my findings straight before putting it down.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchang /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm likely way out of my league here, but isn't the statement below "in theory."

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is." - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

On a serious note, it actually works surprisingly well, call me a purist, but I never use EQ and trying to stick with the most transparent SS amps available, and variety of cans I have, works and sound surprisingly well, i.e. as they supposed to.
Comfort, price, and look are somewhat important, but it is always the sound that comes first.

 

[jlingo]

Uhm, how many hours have you burned-in your predator for? Because it will change. It may sound thin yes I agree, because of the BIG soundstage it portrays, and also the midrange a bit thin too, could have been more around there, but there depending on preference.



Quote:

Originally Posted by jh4db536 /img/forum/go_quote.gif jlinggo, i concur with everything except your description that the predator is warm. It is one of the coldest analytical amps i have ever heard (makes good synergy w/the hd650 though; already too much weight, slow, and warm). Predator has thin sound but tons of fast punch. The bass on the Pico actually extends lower than the Predator. The highs are definitely stronger than sweet (like a notch or 2 less than harsh - brings out the highs in the 650). That's why it sounds so clear and detailed. The Pico is very warm. So warm that i now find it sufficiently Different from the headamp desktop amps. i wanna make sure we're on the same page: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/des...ossary-220770/ Analytical - Highly detailed. Warm - Good bass, adequate low frequencies, adequate fundamentals relative to harmonics. Not thin. Also excessive bass or mid bass. Also, pleasantly spacious, with adequate reverberation at low frequencies. Also see Rich, Round. Warm highs means sweet highs. A malfunctioning predator doesn't sound too good i take it. But cold and analytical as i describe it, i like the sound a lot. BTW my predator has <100 hours on it so who knows that huge cap might burn in. I have actually noticed some transformation going on with the predator in the short time that ive had it.

 

[jlingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Hypnotic" is not a very standard term in describing sound, can you please elaborate on your definition of it. On amp/headphone synergy. Many here subscribed to the view that amp should be as transparent as possible, and not to act as an equalizer in between source and headphones. If the signature of particular headphones is not up to your valley, you probably need to get another headphones and not try to adjust it via amplifier. Good amp should universally match any headphones, i.e. let you hear what specific headphones were intended to sound like.

Hypnotic is when something really catched your attention and you are just stucked there listening. Sort of like taking you to the Avatar State if you are familiar with Avatar.

Transparent is practically a theory dude! Hardly the greatest tube amp or vinyl player transparent at all. That's why there are SS fan and tube FAN. That's why I'm keeping both predator and pico.

 

[jlingo]

Oh Aside from that, please try Grace m902. I believe it's one of the most transparent i have heard if you are a fan of transparency. That's fine by me. I just would you to know the fact that there are tube fans too out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is." - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut On a serious note, it actually works surprisingly well, call me a purist, but I never use EQ and trying to stick with the most transparent SS amps available, and variety of cans I have, works and sound surprisingly well, i.e. as they supposed to. Comfort, price, and look are somewhat important, but it is always the sound that comes first.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlingo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh Aside from that, please try Grace m902. I believe it's one of the most transparent i have heard if you are a fan of transparency. That's fine by me. I just would you to know the fact that there are tube fans too out there.

I have the Grace m902 and the Pico. I don't find the Pico to be overly warm or to have such tonal bias as some might think.

-Ed

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Likewise, the Pico is not as warm sounding as the headphone output of the Apogee Mini-DAC. Perhaps some are mistaking the lack of harshness to mean warmth (because their ears are not as drawn to the highs in the absence of grain).

 

[Edwood]

I had a chance to compare the Pico and Predator head to head briefly at CES with Jude.

Jude brought his Predator, and I brought my Pico. We compared with my Fujitsu P1610 using Foobar and FLAC files.

Overall the biggest difference I noticed amp-wise, is the gain levels are significantly higher in the Pico than the Predator. The Predator has three levels of gain, with the lowest allowing a pretty large range of volume control. But the Predator does not amplify as much as the Pico does, so those with HD650's and K701's may disappointed with the Predator compared to the Pico when it comes to straight volume levels. So for those with highly sensitive IEM's might find the Pico to have very limited and touchy volume control with the Pico, while the Predator has a better range. However the Predator won't have as much volume output as the Pico, as it simply "out-amplifies" the Predator by a significant margain.

Overall comparing the two USB DAC's I do prefer the Pico more than the Predator, I am a detail freak and listen to a lot of classical music, but also electronica and jazz. I also love female vocal music as well, so mid range is important as well. With the Pico's DAC I hear more detail, and better instrument separation. I'm not saying the Predator's USB DAC is crap, far from it. The Predator's USB DAC is Very Good. But the Pico's USB DAC is Great.

There was one major issue with the Predator. The USB DAC section in the Predator seems to be more prone to noise. With my Fujitsu P1610, the Predator was quite loud hissing noise at all gain levels. Pretty much made IEM use un-listenable. The Pico on the otherhand was dead quiet. I tried a few USB cables and different USB ports, but the result was the same. Using the Predator's analog input only, it was quiet. So the noise is coming from it's USB DAC, no the amp. The Pico was dead quiet no matter what I plugged into it.

Of course, this seems to vary depending on the computer. Talking with Jude, he had issues with the Corda Move hissing like crazy with his Dell laptop, while the Headroom Total Bithead did not. So it can be somewhat of a crapshoot there.

Just out of curiosity, I think I'll be plugging my Pico into various laptops and computers I can find everywhere, seems like Bestbuy and Fry's would be a great place to start.

Although I will bet that I'll be wasting my time, as the end result will be the same.

-Ed

 

[jamato8]

Something is strange here. I have been listening to the Predator with my HD650's quite a bit and even when using my Monica II dac as a source, which puts out just 1.5 volts instead of the normal 2 volts, I use the medium gain and have more than enough volume with no clipping. At the high gain setting, which I tend not to use because I don't need it, the volume would be ear splitting if I turned it up all the way. On hiss when using the internal dac I have none except on high gain and turned to the max and then it is barely audible. This is with the UM2's.

One thing I also notice is the layering and detail of the Predator. I can compare this head and head with my Monica II dac, which is a very fine dac, by using the switch on the front of the Predator to either use its internal dac or the feed from the monica, which uses an optical input from the transport of either a CD or hard drive. The detail and layering holds up fine in comparison.

Ok you got me wondering about the volume so I put on one of my blues CD's that is recorded at a lower than normal volume, at least it always comes across this way and I have to turn up my home system or headphone amp to get a normal listening volume. On this one I used high gain and turned it to max. My ears are still ringing. Not the smartest thing for me to do but I wanted to know if it had the volume or not. Next time I won't leave the headphones on my head, which is normally how I would do something like this unless I want to see where something might clip, out of curiosity and I normally don't like to run my headphones at too higher than listening level anyway.

 

[Edwood]

Just because an amp can drive headphones to deafening volumes does not mean it has adequate amplification strength and control(I'm not saying the Predator does not in all cases).

The K1000's for instance are an extreme example that is never subtle. Even a lowly Cmoy can drive them till your ears hurt from the loudness. But they don't sound good. It takes quite a bit more amplification strength and control until K1000's really sing. Having some extra overhead with an amp allows them to really hit dynamic spikes in music without clipping, distorting, or fading. So the true dynamics can be heard.

-Ed

 

[3x331m]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...so those with HD650's and K701's may disappointed with the Predator compared to the Pico when it comes to straight volume levels. So for those with highly sensitive IEM's might find the Pico to have very limited and touchy volume control with the Pico, while the Predator has a better range. However the Predator won't have as much volume output as the Pico, as it simply "out-amplifies" the Predator by a significant margain.

I'm not sure how you had the setup, but my Predator volume knob has never been passed 9 o'clock mark with HD650 or HD600, unless I'd want to pierce my eardrums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif There was one major issue with the Predator. The USB DAC section in the Predator seems to be more prone to noise. With my Fujitsu P1610, the Predator was quite loud hissing noise at all gain levels.

My workstation uses the ASUS P35 which is not very clean. I had noise problem with the Corda Move on this same workstation. However, I found the Predator sound is as clean as the Rudistor NKK-01SE. I don't benchmark DAC, but I found that the Predator noise floor is as good as the Rudistor NKK-01SE. Anyway, the Predator price is less than half the price of the NKK-01SE.

Again, I don't compare DACs. I only compare the sound quality, because I only see systems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of course, this seems to vary depending on the computer. Talking with Jude, he had issues with the Corda Move hissing like crazy with his Dell laptop, while the Headroom Total Bithead did not. So it can be somewhat of a crapshoot there.

The Noise on the Corda Move is confirmed by Jan. It can be very bad on some PC/laptop, depending on the integrated mobo. I also have the Bithead. As the amp, the Bithead don't stand against the Move, Predator, or Pico, but I never had any noise issue with the Bithead no matter the source.

 

[jamato8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just because an amp can drive headphones to deafening volumes does not mean it has adequate amplification strength and control(I'm not saying the Predator does not in all cases). The K1000's for instance are an extreme example that is never subtle. Even a lowly Cmoy can drive them till your ears hurt from the loudness. But they don't sound good. It takes quite a bit more amplification strength and control until K1000's really sing. Having some extra overhead with an amp allows them to really hit dynamic spikes in music without clipping, distorting, or fading. So the true dynamics can be heard. -Ed

Yes, I have been around high end stereo long enough and have built enough systems and tube equipment to know that loudness does not denote quality so I should clarify that the Predator goes beyond what I can stand to hear in volume and still maintains control without distortion in the frequency range. I don't doubt that what heard but my experience with the amp is different. I guess that is part of what makes much of the discourse we see here interesting and informative.

 

[pearljam5000]

With what headphones does the pico have the best synergy?
what models in paticular,and in general- with high or low imp headphones?

 

[HardHeadCase]

Looked like Justin was having people listen to the Prototype using Senn 650s. I also read that some design changes were made to aid synergy with the 701s. I have the 701s and I think they sound great. I want to try the 650s sometime down the road. The Pico doesn't seem to color the music, so what you here will mostly be the headphone you pick out.

 

[PFKMan23]

When I heard the Prototype at the SJ meet this past summer, I used Sen 580s. With the unit I have right now I use 580s and 701s.