[Maxx134]

Just broke down and ordered a pair.  I'm hoping they'll be here by next Friday (4-25).   I'll post initial HD800 w/cardas comparisons a few days after they get here.   

I have same hd800 with XLR Cardas cable

Hardly any difference at all, when I place my palms over the rear screens.

I found the same but it was with the velours.
Did you have the leathers or velours on?

Was thinking these might close enough to the LCD3 to consider using for the lighter weight.  After looking at the Headroom graph, I don't think I'm interested now.

The only thing a freq. Graph tell me is overall "amount" of bass compared to mids.
Nothing about it's nature or quality or overall signature being lively or dull or detailed or not much anything(!) for that matter.

If it was a gradual slope then more could be assumed, but a line going up and down only tells me that is has is own signature sound that would have to be heard.
And I herd the LCD3
Sounds bossier to me, yet also nice.
I prefer the more open LCD X.

Thanks!
I am gonna borrow this quote from the review:

And who's the PM-1 not for? The audiophile who wants every last detail in the treble presented prominently."

I can agree only that the trebles are not present "prominently"..

Yet the trebles are to me some of the most natural I ever herd.
Real supple natural and realistic.
Neither exaggerated or deficient. .

I have herd details in syllables to lyrics that I haven't herd on anything else except the hd800.

Yet I wasn't able to pick out these details as easily when the signature is either too bright or too bassy like other cand
The pm-1 let me notice these things in a musical (not analytical) way..

I used to think my Ultrasone ed8 was king of portables with the largest sound for it's form factor.

But now with the pm-1 being such a similar size and with the leathers for a bit of isolation,
The sound is so superior, that irrespective of isolation,
On a portable setup these have to be the "King" until another sensitive planar comes along..(!)

 

[Beagle]

  Thanks for the link, great read!
 
Do I misunderstand or did that review state that the PM-1 has a bigger bottom end, i.e. more bass than an LCD-3 !!??
Somehow I had the impression the PM-1's were less bass tilted than the LCD-3's....

 
I haven't heard the LCD-3 but the PM-1 bass is less prominent than the LCD-2.
 

Did you have the leathers or velours on?

 
Leathers..

 

[Maxx134]

Was thinking these might close enough to the LCD3 to consider using for the lighter weight.  After looking at the Headroom graph, I don't think I'm interested now.

Looking at this grath, I see:
1- They both are similar up to 3k.
2- Oppo has less energy at 5 -7k.
3- LCD 3 has very steep drop around 11k, maybe 8 db less than oppo.
4- Oppo has more treble energy from7.5k-13k ,
5- Oppo kinds of levels off from13k-17k.
6- LCD 3 keeps rising from 13k up


It is easy to get false impression from graph curves by overall appearance.

A line going up and down only tells me that is has is own signature,
That would have to be heard to judge.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Just posted my measurements here. 

 

[bfreedma]

Looking at this grath, I see:
1- They both are similar up to 3k.
2- Oppo has less energy at 5 -7k.
3- LCD 3 has very steep drop around 11k, maybe 8 db less than oppo.
4- Oppo has more treble energy from7.5k-13k ,
5- Oppo kinds of levels off from13k-17k.
6- LCD 3 keeps rising from 13k up


It is easy to get false impression from graph curves by overall appearance.

A line going up and down only tells me that is has is own signature,
That would have to be heard to judge.

I've heard enough headphones to make reasonable extrapolations from graphs.  I'm not saying anything negative about the PM-1, just that it doesn't seem on par with the LCD3, not being close enough in bass or treble output to have me interested.
 
I certainly don't consider the PM-1 being 3-6db down below 80hz to be insignificant.  The LCD3 will have noticeably more bass. 
 
As you also mention, both phones have the typical planar dip around 8K but the Oppo never recovers, where as the LCD3 does.  The LCD3's dip is also over 10db more shallow than the PM-1
 
Some of the rest of your numbers seem to be unrealistically favoring the Oppo.  For example, I don't see the Oppo leveling off between 13k and 17k.  Being 25db down or better is hardly :leveling off" in any kind of positive way.
 
YMMV, but these are significant and would be audible to most.  If you prefer the PM-1 signature, then that should be the headphone you buy but for my preferences, too much bass and treble roll off.  The PM-1 does have a significant price advantage and should be more comfortable for many, so it still looks like a good buy - just not for me personally.

 

[bfreedma]

  Just posted my measurements here. 

 
Those seem to correspond pretty well to the existing measurements and my comments.
 
Good headphones, but not LCD3 level FR

 

[Maxx134]

I've heard enough headphones to make reasonable extrapolations from graphs.  I'm not saying anything negative about the PM-1, just that it doesn't seem on par with the LCD3, not being close enough in bass or treble output to have me interested.

I certainly don't consider the PM-1 being 3-6db down below 80hz to be insignificant.  The LCD3 will have noticeably more bass. 

As you also mention, both phones have the typical planar dip around 8K but the Oppo never recovers, where as the LCD3 does.  The LCD3's dip is also over 10db more shallow than the PM-1

Some of the rest of your numbers seem to be unrealistically favoring the Oppo.  For example, I don't see the Oppo leveling off between 13k and 17k.  Being 25db down or better is hardly :leveling off" in any kind of positive way.

YMMV, but these are significant and would be audible to most.  If you prefer the PM-1 signature, then that should be the headphone you buy but for my preferences, too much bass and treble roll off.  The PM-1 does have a significant price advantage and should be more comfortable for many, so it still looks like a good buy - just not for me personally.

-3db at 50hz & -6db at 10hz is not what I call a big deal ..
I will agree from my memory the LCD3 I herd had a slightly thicker bass.

The dips you mention around 6k is not trebles area.
I am not favoring numbers.
The graph is not linear.
The "never recover" is in an area above 15k.
You will be hard pressed to hear any lack of treble with both side by side.
The LCD3 will sound darker. (!)
The pm-1 will sound more natural.
That is my perception.
Edit
To put in perspective,
I still consider the LCD "better" overall.
But this is all subjective

I prefer the LCD X which to me is more brighter and open than both.
I hoping now the upcoming he560 can kick ars.
In meantime these are great.

 

[KamijoIsMyHero]

Disappointing looking frequency response, I had high hopes they would provide something better with a different implementation on the driver. I guess I will have to stick with the HE-500, I can't imagine anymore lost treble energy which is a deal breaker... that treble extension though reminds me of IEMs 0.o

 

[Maxx134]

They should have made a closed version.
If they could, it could topple all in that category. .

 

[eugenius]

That graph looks like the HD650 had a kid with a Beyer.

 

[vkalia]

New review : http://stereos.about.com/od/Headphone-Reviews/ss/Review-Oppo-Digital-PM-1-Headphone.htm

 
Interesting that he says the PM1 has more bass than the LCD3 when the measurements clearly show the LCD3 to have more bass.   

 

[JeffA]

Interesting that he says the PM1 has more bass than the LCD3 when the measurements clearly show the LCD3 to have more bass.   

He only tried the PM-1 on portable rigs. Maybe on those systems the bass from the Oppo is more prominent. It is disappointing the reviewer did not audition the Oppo with other sources and amps.

 

[bfreedma]

-3db at 50hz & -6db at 10hz is not what I call a big deal ..
I will agree from my memory the LCD3 I herd had a slightly thicker bass.

The dips you mention around 6k is not trebles area.
I am not favoring numbers.
The graph is not linear.
The "never recover" is in an area above 15k.
You will be hard pressed to hear any lack of treble with both side by side.
The LCD3 will sound darker. (!)
The pm-1 will sound more natural.
That is my perception.
Edit
To put in perspective,
I still consider the LCD "better" overall.
But this is all subjective

I prefer the LCD X which to me is more brighter and open than both.
I hoping now the upcoming he560 can kick ars.
In meantime these are great.

 
Guess we will have to agree to disagree on the significance of the 3db-6db down from 80hz and lower.  For me, that would be highly noticeable and a deal breaker.  I can only speak for myself - others many not be bothered or may prefer that FR.
 
Again, not saying that the PM-1 is a "bad" can, just that the hype train calling these the best planers out there probably could use a little less coal in the engine.

 

[bfreedma]

They should have made a closed version.
If they could, it could topple all in that category. .

A hype train on vaporware?

 
Actually, calling it vaporware is unfair to OPPO as I don't believe they have announced anything regarding closed versions.

 

[Maxx134]

Guess we will have to agree to disagree on the significance of the 3db-6db down from 80hz and lower.  For me, that would be highly noticeable and a deal breaker.  I can only speak for myself - others many not be bothered or may prefer that FR.

Again, not saying that the PM-1 is a "bad" can, just that the hype train calling these the best planers out there probably could use a little less coal in the engine.

I don't disagree with your bass statements.
Only on perception as a whole, as the pm-1 does not sound lacking in any trait, and that is impressive when comparing to these other top cans..

I could be more specific and say that the LCD bass to me was more "visceral" than even the Hifiman, to me in general.

The LCD3 is what I wanted before I herd the LCD X.
Now with these oppo I feel it strikes a balance that is immensely satisfying over whole spectrum.
For portable rigs it is closer to the LCD than the Hifiman.