[Uncle Erik]

dcpoor, calm down. I assure you, quite seriously, that the K-701 is not the only headphone I hate.

Do I need to bring the Darth Beyer into this? Or the entire Ultrasone line? Ever read what I think about Bose?

While we're at it, cats are better than dogs, Apple is better than Microsoft, and dare I bring cables into this?

Since you're either being highly selective or deliberately obtuse, check around and you'll find my opinions on any number of things. I haven't exactly been quiet around here.

And I stand by what I said. If the K-701, DT880 and HD-650 were all priced the same, K-701 sales would fall off a cliff. It'd probably be about 75% HD-650, 20% DT880 and peanuts for the K-701. People are price conscious, yet want the prestige of a flagship. My opinion, of course, but it is Marketing 101 to price a weaker offering lower than the competition. Any interest in buying a used Yugo?

Also, the K-701 really is an affront to AKG's older products. Like them or not, everyone can agree that the K-701 is voiced differently from the way they used to. It was severely disappointing to find their new offering much worse than what they used to make. I completely fault AKG for discontinuing a headphone that hangs with - and sometimes betters - the HD-800, T1, and PS-1000.

 

[MacedonianHero]

^^
 
I don't understand what it is about the AKG K701/2s that makes some so defensive? Erik has for quite some time said he's not a fan of Ultrasone products too. I happen to own the Edition 8LEs and really enjoy them. So what? He's entitled to his opinion and I'm entitled to mine. Free speech people. It's not just that a person can say what they think, but as many times as they want to as well. Obviously he does respect AKG, he still owns his K1000s and readily admits to how much he enjoys them. It is not the company, but the product (at least how I read it).
 
Let's respect that and each other please. Other unnamed members only push one headphone regardless of what's out there or recently released. They are entitled to that to. And I am entitled to disagree with them.
 
FWIW, pricing of headphones to be lower than it's competitor must be for a reason. Do we really think that companies are selling their headphones at lower prices to do audiophiles a favour? Cost and price have (or should have) ZERO correlation. Cost is how much it costs you to make an item and price is whatever the market will bare. Hopefully the market will bare a price that is greater than the cost.

(Sorry for the simplistic economics lesson, but sometimes I think we forget the simple things).

 
Let's calm down and enjoy a nice drink...like say Gibson's finest Canadian Rye on the rocks (like I am).

 

[Jack C]

Quote:

And I stand by what I said. If the K-701, DT880 and HD-650 were all priced the same, K-701 sales would fall off a cliff. It'd probably be about 75% HD-650, 20% DT880 and peanuts for the K-701. People are price conscious, yet want the prestige of a flagship. My opinion, of course, but it is Marketing 101 to price a weaker offering lower than the competition. Any interest in buying a used Yugo?

You keep saying this as if is a fact that the K701/K702 are cheaper than the DT880. This is simply not true. On Amazon.com, DT880s are $250-$260. The K701 is $300 or more, and the K702 is $250. On headphone.com, K701/K702 are the same price as DT880s, with the DT880/600 being $20 more. This is counter to your claim.
 
With respect to sales volume, I don't know of any publicly available data, but the next best thing we have are review post counts. On headphone.com, the K701/K702 headphones have 16 reviews each. The various DT880 flavors have 19 reviews combined. On Amazon.com, AKG K701/K702 have about 96 reviews combined. The DT880 flavors have total of 35. Review count has strong correlation to sales volume - as a featured merchant on Amazon.com we know for this to be true. It is therefore safe to say that the K701/K702 enjoys much stronger sales than the DT880 in spite of being available for about the same cost, if not more.
 
The Sennheiser HD650 enjoys even stronger sales than both the DT880 and K701/K702, and that speaks to the market leadership position held by Sennheiser. Most US consumers outside of the enthusiast headphone or pro audio circle likely has never heard of Beyer or AKG. 
 
In any case, I just wanted to show these data points so that you can update the basis of your opinion.
 
Jack

 

[Kernmac]

There you go (below), undeniable proof that Uncle Eric hasn't got a clue.
 Quote:

While we're at it, cats are better than dogs,........

 

[rhythmdevils]

Kernmac, how can you say that UE hasn't got a clue?  I seem to agree with very little that you post...  I am kind of appalled at a lot of the comments being made here.  UE is the last person who should be worried about "responsible" posting, he has one of, if not the, highest content to word ratio on head-fi right now.  I can't think of another poster who so frequently makes discussions more interesting. 

 

[Kernmac]

 

 
Read my post.  And as for you not agreeing with me  --  Why would I care?

 
Quote:

Kernmac, how can you say that UE hasn't got a clue?  I seem to agree with very little that you post...   

 

[rhythmdevils]

wow.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

UE is the last person who should be worried about "responsible" posting, he has one of, if not the, highest content to word ratio on head-fi right now.  I can't think of another poster who so frequently makes discussions more interesting. 

There's a content to word ratio meter here? Gosh, I wish I'd known. Here I've been waffling on saying practically nothing as if nobody would notice. Have to pull my socks up.

 

[Kernmac]

Its just like a political debate with an interest meter to judge how well we are all doing.  Unfortunately what hope does anyone have pitching against such an interesting Headfier with an unbeliveable high content to word ratio.  And rythmdevils, you might of missed the tongue in cheek reference to cats vs dogs, being the undeniable proof of UE not having a clue.  I believe my comment has about the same credibility as the original UE AKG price positioning inference- that is, none what so ever.
 
But I think you may have rescued your high interset to word ratio count with your follow up response to my Face Palm-   WOW
 

 

[chrisjackson]

I'd suggest a reduction in price was a marketing decision made by marketing people the majority of whom know little about the product's intrinsic worth. Their's is the language of sales, costs, revenue not soundstage, controlled bass and colouration. Besides it does seem rather odd to be looking to something one apparently respects so little (the AKG marketing guys) to support one's claim that it is an inferior product.
We know price and a product's quality have no absolute correlation. Additionally there are numerous examples in marketing where a price increase of a product has lead to increased sales. Things ain't straightforward.

I'm sure there are plenty of new members appearing all the time who are interested to hear how Uncle Erik's listening to the AKG 701's have lead to his conclusion about their various limitations. I guess for long-time members who disagree and have heard the criticisms many, many times it may become galling. Dunno if this is a problem or anything needs to be done? Just seems a shame that so many threads seems to get "derailed" in the same tedious and predictable fashion.

 

[Proglover]

I can get the 880's for a bit less than the 701's at the moment, actually

(buying within Netherlands/Germany)
 
The Senns remain fairly higher then the other 2.
 
But then again, what is it worth to save 70-80 euro's in this price range, when you don't make the right decision for yourself.
 
It's hard enough choosing between these 3, without price as a important factor. These discussions don't make it easier, but with so many different flavors I guess consensus is too much too ask for. Actually choosing between these 3 'classics of this generation' plus HD600, for prog.rock/metal. (no, can't try them out before choosing

)
 
Fun to read this kind of discussions guys, just don't fight about it, it's just opinions.

 

[Acix]

 
Quote:

I'd suggest a reduction in price was a marketing decision made by marketing people the majority of whom know little about the product's intrinsic worth. Their's is the language of sales, costs, revenue not soundstage, controlled bass and colouration. Besides it does seem rather odd to be looking to something one apparently respects so little (the AKG marketing guys) to support one's claim that it is an inferior product.
We know price and a product's quality have no absolute correlation. Additionally there are numerous examples in marketing where a price increase of a product has lead to increased sales. Things ain't straightforward.

I'm sure there are plenty of new members appearing all the time who are interested to hear how Uncle Erik's listening to the AKG 701's have lead to his conclusion about their various limitations. I guess for long-time members who disagree and have heard the criticisms many, many times it may become galling. Dunno if this is a problem or anything needs to be done? Just seems a shame that so many threads seems to get "derailed" in the same tedious and predictable fashion.

Sad...but I have agree with you, especially about UE. 

 

[MomijiTMO]

 
[size=medium]

This is only a recent thing. In the past, the K701 has been super cheap!

Quote:

You keep saying this as if is a fact that the K701/K702 are cheaper than the DT880. This is simply not true. On Amazon.com, DT880s are $250-$260. The K701 is $300 or more, and the K702 is $250. On headphone.com, K701/K702 are the same price as DT880s, with the DT880/600 being $20 more. This is counter to your claim.
 

​

[/size]

 
I loled. It seems we are the only chaps with a good sense of humor .
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kernmac /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Facepalm pic
 

 

[Justin Uthadude]

If you are relatively new to Head-Fi, this thread could be a learning experience for you. When I was newer, I didn’t know what opinions that I read to believe and what not to. You know what I’m talking about. How could a headphone be too treble heavy and rolled off at the same time? How could a phone reproduce certain frequencies perfectly if they came from a jazz song, but sound ‘thin’ ‘weak’ ‘flat’ from those frequencies in orchestral music?
 
After awhile, I started to identify those people who liked what I did and those who liked what I didn’t. Those members who described what they heard in a way that was similar to what I heard were the ones I paid attention to when I was interested in something new. I would not give credence to someone’s impression on an item I was considering purchasing if they heard ‘dull’ and ‘muffled’ on a pair of headphones I was selling because they were too ‘bright’. It doesn’t take long to identify a head-fier or two or three that hears like you do, or the other way.
 
Then there are the fan boys and the haters. They have finally (for now) found the ‘right’ headphone for their taste (and if you have the same taste, you might want to try it), or they ran into something that strikes a nerve in them, usually apparent by seeing words like  ‘worst ever’.) If bozo123 says “these ProfitABC’s are the finest headphones ever made” I ask myself what type of music does bozo listen to? Wait, he only listens to acoustic jazz and I only occasionally do, therefore theses might not be good for me. On the other hand, if bozo123 hated Koss KSC75’s and I found them pretty good . .  You get the point.
 
Equipment profiles are also helpful. My method is to buy used, listen, and re-sell if I don’t like. Quite often I’m only out shipping. To me $7-10 is an excellent price to pay to try out different items. When I see a member’s signature that shows he ‘had’ all the headphones I like, his impressions of a pair I’m interested in carries little weight. If his headphone taste has matched mine and listens to ‘my’ kind of music, I read carefully.
 
Then there are those responses that seem out of place. Quite often they make sense when you consider the source. Also, for many here, English is not their primary language. Connotations can easily be lost.
 
Additionally, be careful to determine if the person responding has actually ever heard what they are talking about. “Everyone knows” can sadly more often than wished mean “I’ve read”. “Tubes are warm” can come from someone who’s never heard an amplifier other than his cmoy. Once you have paid attention to what suits your tastes, it’s easier to correctly identify the diamonds from the cubic zirconium, the dissenters from the whiners, and the wheat from the chaff.
 
To paraphrase a dead American, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the head-fiers all of the time."
 
Back to your regularly schedule thread.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

UE is the last person who should be worried about "responsible" posting, he has one of, if not the, highest content to word ratio on head-fi right now.  I can't think of another poster who so frequently makes discussions more interesting. 

LMAO, You're probably referring to UE discussions about his lovely K-701.