Obscure Chinese DAPs
Oct 11, 2019 at 9:24 AM Post #6,586 of 8,127
Like I said before, the ak4497 has HIGH output impedance, works best with high impedance gear, works OK with dynamic drivers and big cans, but won't get as loud it's best with 100ohm to 200ohm and 300ohm earbuds. The ak4490 version is good from 20ohms to 400ohms, and will push higher volume, for example ak4497 dsd with my he4xx comfortable volume for me is 24 out of 31. With ak4490 and he4xx comfortable volume for me is 20 out of 31.

It’s negotiable. The DSD Pro has a HIGH ceiling for modifications to maximize its output power and has better noise-to-audio —signal ratio THD + Noise because of the AK4497 is the best on the market (& the world) until it’s dethroned by its predecessor the Ak4499.

Not liking the sound signature of a chip is one thing. However, there’s no denying it’s high performance.

It’s important because 99% of the audiophile market right now is obsessed with low impedance (which all it takes is removing/lowering resistance on the dac with hot air soldering). So stock dap is at 22 ohms can go down to 10 ohms or to 5 ohms or below (you get the idea)

However lowering the impedance will NOT power all iems and frequency response is mainly correlated with the file and quality of the files and how good the clocks/semiconductor chip can read those files if there qualitative errors, etc.

It’s also always best to know your iems specs set by the manufacture to match them with a particular dap you want them to perform with specs but the Ear Test always rules. Music is subjective and lab test is only important when it interferes with performance.

Some iems and high ohms earphones/headphone require voltage/current requirements must be met in order to power them. It’s just a fact and has nothing to do with a portable dac charts! It’s the same for certain op amps which require a +/- voltage Requirement will affect its performance.

Personally feel that there’s too many people who are laser focused on this one particular area and negligent things like audio signature and sensitivity to increase clarity and soundstage that’s more of an issue as to why they aren’t enjoying music as much.

As far as “xenophobia” comments I’m not gonna get into the geopolitics about sanctioned countries and will say that buying these Chinese daps you are essentially buying a zombie player that’s only self worth is based on whether or not the Semiconductor/important parts are real and how it’s circuited and If it works with the firmware. Europeans, Americans, Australians, Japanese, etc demand higher standard regulatory bodies for quality assurance and quality control to prevent hazards, etc!

People who buy counterfeit op amps for instance may sound “ok” and when used in this application isn’t a matter of life and death BUT I wouldn’t trusted them in medical devices, defense systems, etc.

Genuine parts do make their way to countries like Russia via the black market but it’s hard to know if the modification you see for third party non-western DIYaudio sites are really using genuine parts, etc and when looking at their economy Russia isn’t well known for producing top notch electronics or its components unless it’s exported Kalashnikovs. The Russian economy is smaller than that of Italy’s is made off exports like petroleum, Arms Deal for proxy wars in the Middle East, State-run Fake news factories and buying western assets like Real Estate to get their money outside of a corrupt oligarchy illegitimate democratic state . This has been well documented in the West and it’s factually correct.

That’s my two cents anyway.
 
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Oct 11, 2019 at 1:09 PM Post #6,590 of 8,127
W

Like I said before, the ak4497 has HIGH output impedance, works best with high impedance gear, works OK with dynamic drivers and big cans, but won't get as loud it's best with 100ohm to 200ohm and 300ohm earbuds. The ak4490 version is good from 20ohms to 400ohms, and will push higher volume, for example ak4497 dsd with my he4xx comfortable volume for me is 24 out of 31. With ak4490 and he4xx comfortable volume for me is 20 out of 31.
The biggest difference is that the ak4497 has balanced, but it lacks a line out, it has a darker background but distorts more (specially with low impedance gear, all the iems you showed are low impedance, there are no high impedance iems) so in the end its only good with buds
If you want iems get the 4490, or the t1. If you have hard to drive low impedance the 4490 is also the better option.
If you plan on just using buds and cans then 4497 will work, but it distorts much more at loud volume

If you want to amp it, or use the line out, only the 4490 and 4495 have line out

Did you actually take measures or where do all these knowledge come from?

I don't hear any problem on the DSD pro with moderate (32 ohms +) impedance single/dual DDs IEMs, earbuds nor cans, I agree however that it's not ideal for iems equipped with BAs.

It sounds perfectly fine with my KPE, BL-03, EBX for example, while KB100 has a problem in the high range, sounds dark.

If you hear "boomy bass" it's related to the output capacitors and NOT to the output impedance of the device which only affects the trebles, for BAs, while DDs remain largely unaffected in my experience.
 
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Oct 11, 2019 at 1:20 PM Post #6,591 of 8,127
yes swappable but not that convenient. Also, they didn’t allow any space where the OP amps are located, so you can’t put your opamps on an extension board. Meaning that you are constantly pulling up on the fragile legs

Absolutely hit the nail on the head. Moreover, it’s NOT DIY friendly so you limited to what improvements you can make on it unlike the DSD Pro.

I hope the T1 Ak4499 version will not have this problem and don’t really care about the modules being swappable which is a more of “bug” than a feature!

If Acme sounds great in stock mode and has a ceiling for improved modification it’s a better buy imho but not as great of a buy compared to DSD Pro for 50 bucks less with a better AKM chip.
 
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Oct 11, 2019 at 1:30 PM Post #6,592 of 8,127
If you hear "boomy bass" it's related to the output capacitors and NOT to the output impedance of the device which only affects the trebles, for BAs, while DDs remain largely unaffected in my experience.

Hmmm, in my experience it’s quite the opposite the bass response improves greatly with higher ufs. I actually googled it and can confirm this to be true based on research and actual experience increasing VREF in the output. It was like night and day. Some have bypassed the output transistors and ran it on a buffer op amps which didn’t improve sound quality only audio signature. Which I think is a great thing if are getting more of your chosen op amp audio signature??!

But your point about the tremble and the impedence may be improved by lowering the resistance??? I don’t have the an annoying semblance problem but any slight improvement to that areas clarity would be welcome by moi ! I thought about power resistors but they might not fit. I’m also interested in coupling film caps with existing ones but don’t have the slightest idea how to do it!

There was a discussion about rising the gain to +3 in the lpf in the Zishan DSD that went nowhere that I would be keen on trying if someone has the know how to do it or has done it.

I don’t need the the “extra oomph” however I suspect that it may allow some op amps to perform better in that stage since it’s the Akm4497 datasheet so I believe it would improve sensitivity in the lpf and buffering!
 
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Oct 11, 2019 at 1:41 PM Post #6,593 of 8,127
Hmmm, in my experience it’s quite the opposite the bass response improves greatly with higher ufs. I actually googled it and can confirm this to be true based on research and actual experience increasing VREF in the output. It was like night and day. Some have bypassed the output transistors and ran it on a buffer op amps which didn’t improve sound quality only audio signature. Which I think is a great thing if get more of your chosen op amp audio signature??!

But your point about the tremble and the impedence may be improved by lowering the resistance??? I don’t have the an annoying semblance problem but any slight improvement to that areas clarity would be welcome by moi ! I thought about power resistors but they might not fit. I’m also interested in coupling film caps with existing ones but don’t have the slightest idea how to do it!

There was a discussion about rising the gain to +3 in the lpf in the Zishan DSD that went nowhere that I would be keen on trying if someone has the know how to do it or has done it.

I don’t need the the “extra oomph” however I suspected that it male allow some op amps to perform better in that stage since it’s the Akm4497 datasheet??[/I]

There are calculators online at your disposal to check the relation between output capacitors and bass roll-off (they act as HPF) like https://www.v-cap.com/coupling-capacitor-calculator.php

Researching more about this, it seems output Z indeed impacts bass response on all devices, and not only trebles for BAs, looks like I was wrong about my assumption.

So it looks like the output resistors + caps couple has an impact.
 
Oct 11, 2019 at 2:12 PM Post #6,594 of 8,127
There are calculators online at your disposal to check the relation between output capacitors and bass roll-off (they act as HPF) like https://www.v-cap.com/coupling-capacitor-calculator.php

Researching more about this, it seems output Z indeed impacts bass response on all devices, and not only trebles for BAs, looks like I was wrong about my assumption.

So it looks like the output resistors + caps couple has an impact.

100% true about the coupling! Also better quality parts with a proven track record is good investment! You may not like the sound but the high quality is there!

If you love bass I would recommend increasing the ufs in all the DSD Pro including the ceramic ones (definitely around the op amps).

My only recommendation is to not increase the 10uf values unless you know how that will affect the rest of the DAC power supply. This is extremely true in the CPU board. But replacing all the 0605 with 1 ufs and 16-25 will prevent flickering screens and noise. Also improves the functionality of the firmware I have found.

I’d also recommend getting AD8066 op amps. Those are THE best bass response amps I’ve ever heard. It’s not just like low end and it’s the entire spectrum. I pop them into my DSD Pro even now and again but for me for contrasted for me I prefer Dark and laid back with depth In the soundstage that’s not as wide and makes the music sound distant!

I am considering putting two AD8066 in the lpf filter though to provide more oomph to the SE which I prefer listening to.

The lpf is what I’m putting all my attention to these days if I decide to mod again. I would like to experiment with higher uf caps like 680 coupled with film caps and play with the resistance values but I’m too green in this area.

Yea I looked into the calculation tools for gain increase relative different op amp inverted and non-inverted but I’m not that knowledgeable with the theory behind the practices and it would be wiser for me to take note of someone who’s a little more knowledgeable in this area of expertise.

Disclaimer: Modding is a helluva Drug so just when you think you “figured it all out” you can be one mod away from destroying or making your dap inferior sounding that’s been my experience anyway.
 
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Oct 11, 2019 at 5:40 PM Post #6,595 of 8,127
Speaking of the AK4497EQ...Has anyone tried the F.Audio FA3? Will it have the same lack in the lower zone as the previous models?
Maybe I'm a masochist, but since their S1 model, I'm convinced that someday they will get a good and compensated product.
 
Oct 11, 2019 at 5:52 PM Post #6,596 of 8,127
Speaking of the AK4497EQ...Has anyone tried the F.Audio FA3? Will it have the same lack in the lower zone as the previous models?
Maybe I'm a masochist, but since their S1 model, I'm convinced that someday they will get a good and compensated product.

I'm wondering about the FA3 as well!

Does the S1 sound good all around or is it just because it was cheap?
 
Oct 11, 2019 at 6:02 PM Post #6,597 of 8,127
I'm wondering about the FA3 as well!

Does the S1 sound good all around or is it just because it was cheap?

I'm very fond of the S1, it has been for a long time my DAP for the day to day, because its battery lasts a lot. It has only a slight drop in the lower zone, a little noticeable, but I always liked its clear sound.

If you want to read something good about it, I agree with @B9Scrambler in his appreciations, I would never have said it better.

https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/07/28/f-audio-s1-feeling-dapper/
 
Oct 11, 2019 at 6:28 PM Post #6,598 of 8,127
Oct 12, 2019 at 12:25 AM Post #6,599 of 8,127
Did you actually take measures or where do all these knowledge come from?

I don't hear any problem on the DSD pro with moderate (32 ohms +) impedance single/dual DDs IEMs, earbuds nor cans, I agree however that it's not ideal for iems equipped with BAs.

It sounds perfectly fine with my KPE, BL-03, EBX for example, while KB100 has a problem in the high range, sounds dark.

If you hear "boomy bass" it's related to the output capacitors and NOT to the output impedance of the device which only affects the trebles, for BAs, while DDs remain largely unaffected in my experience.
The info is on the Russian sight, it actually has been measured, and you are wrong my friend, high output impedance gives b. a. hiss, and gives a boost to the mid bass in d.d. , its also fairly noticeable, I have 2 players, just listen back to back, the difference is pretty obvious when you have them both.
It's not too bad on my tin audio t2, but it's really easy to here on the grados, and as far as power you can easily hear the difference
 
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Oct 12, 2019 at 12:33 AM Post #6,600 of 8,127
I'm wondering about the FA3 as well!

Does the S1 sound good all around or is it just because it was cheap?
I been feeling the same, I really like the s1, great little DAP, I been wishing f.Audio was better,i keep hoping, but I am afraid every new player just get worst and worst, makes me sad....
 

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