That's a loaded question - because where you sit in a live performance dictates the mix you hear - even in a club. The best location for sound is often a worse location for the concert experience - too close and the mix is being thrown over your head - too far back and everything is muddy - don't get me started on getting stuck on one side (or heaven help those who actually get seated behind the act on stage in some arena shows...)
That's a loaded question - because where you sit in a live performance dictates the mix you hear - even in a club. The best location for sound is often a worse location for the concert experience - too close and the mix is being thrown over your head - too far back and everything is muddy - don't get me started on getting stuck on one side (or heaven help those who actually get seated behind the act on stage in some arena shows...)
And it's not just the sitting at a concert, it's also the audio equipment used. I always find it weird when people are trying to use live concerts as reference for headphones - so the small headphones or iems you bought don't sound as good as huge professional audio systems worth many many thousands of dollars? Did you really expect otherwise and should you be complaining?
All true, but I do tend to use live music (not stadium concerts) as my reference for how things should sound so perhaps that's what was meant.
When I think "live" I think of a gig in a moderate venue with simple sound reinforcement to balance vocals and acoustic instruments with drums and electric guitar / bass.
I would expect to see some sort of discount for Black Friday, which will be in a few weeks. Besides that or other Noble discounts, you aren't going to see a K10 for less than official asking price.
That's a loaded question - because where you sit in a live performance dictates the mix you hear - even in a club. The best location for sound is often a worse location for the concert experience - too close and the mix is being thrown over your head - too far back and everything is muddy - don't get me started on getting stuck on one side (or heaven help those who actually get seated behind the act on stage in some arena shows...)
Interesting, I worked in a club that had club music, I was the dj, as well as having great live acts. Saw everyone from New Order, Nirvana, to Beastie Boys and REM.
Always tried to stand by the mixing board toward the back of the room. That is where the person who mixed the band heard the music and tried to make it as the band or club would want it. Always heard plenty of bass, drums, cymbals as well as guitars and vocals. Everything.
And that is what I try to get in sound from an earphones and headphones.
At the board is usually where the best sound can be found. Especially at a larger gig - but often at a club, the guy running the board is on headphones because the prime listening location is usually taken up by patrons - so the board is off in a corner out of the way, almost as an afterthought. When I think sound of a live performance, I think of the rawness of the sound, the edginess of the instruments - the smack of the bass drum and guitar - the lack of sound processing (smoothing) that goes on in a studio...
I'll never understand the whole crapstorm of a 'conversation' that passed over this thread, and here's why.
There are two things I actively listen to right now: a pair of Shure SRH-940s, and my Noble 5Ws. The 5Ws are definitely seeing a lot more usage. The 940s are what I'd describe as bass-anemic and maybe even a little bright due to their immense resolution. The Noble 5Ws have bass that can really be impolite if you ask it to, but with smooth highs and a notable 4K spike. Two totally different signatures.
I enjoy both of them a great deal. Reread that. Neither pair are what I'd call neutral - the 5Ws are warm and engaging, and the 940s are cold and analytical, but I don't give less than half of a crap about what any frequency response graph says about either of them. I'll never understand why some people will look at a graph, see a 0.5 dB spike somewhere, and go "Wow, those must sound completely unacceptable." - it just boggles my mind. Is that graph really more important to you than how they actually sound to your ears? I didn't realize that every single person in existence had the exact same preference of an FR being flast-as-a-pancake, and that this has apparently become the standard that all companies must adhere to. For professional reference uses? Sure, you have to be reasonably neutral for the sake of your clients. For anything else, though, isn't your own perception what matters the most?
This has also been my experience. It's tighter and comes out of nowhere to punch hard and then disappears suddenly when it's not in the track, as you scale up to more and more higher level cans the "camouflage effect" gets stronger.
And btw GG, don't worry cuz your descriptions of the K10 is making perfect sense to me, and I'm sure many many others who have experienced similar things on Head-Fi.
The description actually fits some of the more popular neutral cans on Head-Fi, like the Paradox or even the HD800 on a good rig. I would also say the Focal Spirit Pro is like this where the bass just comes out of nowhere to smack you in the face when it's in the recording and then pretty much disappears when it's not in the recording.
It's very difficult to sum the K10 up with one word. It's not warm, but it's not cold. It's not bright, but it's not dark. It's not fast, but it's not slow. It's not bass heavy but it's not bass light. I believe (this is my personal opinion) that the Kaiser 10 is the embodiment of 'balance.' :confused_face:
I'd say that is about the fairest description of the K10 I have read. I'd add you wouldn't find any faults technically, while at the same time, you wouldn't find it musically wanting either, adding to the 'balance-ness' in a very good way. I demo'ed the K10 on its stock cable on an AK240 amped by a Porta Tube on Wagnus Voshkod IC; listening to classical pieces, jazz, vocals and some acoustic guitar stuff, I'd have to say, in my own very extremely humble opinion and YMMV for sure, it sounded better, in a holistic way, than the JHes (13,16 FPs and Roxanne), UMs (Mentor, Legacy), Tralucent (1p2, Ref 1) and Fitear (335, 435, 334). That's saying a lot, I know; it's not perfect but if I could have only one pair of CIEMs, the K10 would be it.
Let me conclude by saying that everyone has different perceptions -- your hearing is not the same as mine, preferences -- your tastes are not the same as mine, prerequisites -- your expectations are not the same as mine. I like the K10. You may not. I tried to like JH but do not. You may. That's all ok, get and use whatever tickles your fancy. In the end, it's about the music, not the gear.
Let me conclude by saying that everyone has different perceptions -- your hearing is not the same as mine, preferences -- your tastes are not the same as mine, prerequisites -- your expectations are not the same as mine. I like the K10. You may not. I tried to like JH but do not. You may. That's all ok, get and use whatever tickles your fancy. In the end, it's about the music, not the gear.
Peanut butter is delicious, but, people even disagree on which is the best. I just had a short conversation with someone about Kirkland Peanut butter from Costco, she didn't like it at all. I have not tried it.
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